How can we know that god exists?

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimCybella, the advise that i can give to you when seek the truth is just use your clean heart (be honest) of your self, and use your clear mind in seeing something .You may seek it through your spiritual and your knowledge at once.God give you heart to see the thing that you cannot see but you can feel it, and God has give you mind that you can you use to find the truth it self, and with clean heart you can be honest.This is Quran if you wish to seek the truth http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran/ and this is Bible in www.biblegateway.comAnd the choice is in your hand, just be honest and use clear mind. Ask the true God so He may protect you from the wrong one, and keep encourage of your self in seeking the truth. May Allah (God) Almighty give you His Guidance .Have a nice seeking to the truth and don't be confuse, because the truth will not confusing you. Learn and read with honest and clear minded. Once again may Allah (God) give His Guidance be upon to you Wallahu a'lam.

Ricky W, are you Christian or Muslim? I seem to be getting some mixed signals from your perspective. I understand that Allah mean "the God" in the Arab languages, but isnt promoting the Quran going a little far for a Christian? I mean no attack but arent we to approach these questions from a Christian perspective when we seek to help someone?

The God of the three Semitic traditions and mainstream Hinduism is based on faith and emotion.This how the adherents get to "know" God, which is based on group behavior, singing, and inducing emotional states. This is faith.The God of the philosophers and mystics is based on rationality and observations in nature. With some schools of thought, most specifically deism, there is still a small amount of secondary faith involved.This pattern is easily seen with most cultures. If one starts with India, the majority of the Hindus were polytheists/henotheists, ritualistic, and idolatrous. The wandering ascetics and intellectuals rejected all of that (but not in spite) and instead used the facilities of rationality, logic, and meditation as well as observing nature.The Greek philosophers such as Aristotle, Plato, etc all believed in radicaly different ideas than the rest of the populace, who were polytheists. In Islam, the Sufi mystics meditated and contemplated on the nature of God through the means of rationality, while the every-day Muslims simply worshipped God.In other words, the God of the man of faith is a God that is worshipped. The God of the philosopher is a God that is pondered upon.Both advocate experiencing God, the former through group activity and altered emotional states, the the latter through the exact opposite, ie engaging in meditation in-order to clear the mind and "free the ego".

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(RobinD69)
Ricky W, are you Christian or Muslim? I seem to be getting some mixed signals from your perspective. I understand that Allah mean "the God" in the Arab languages, but isnt promoting the Quran going a little far for a Christian? I mean no attack but arent we to approach these questions from a Christian perspective when we seek to help someone?
Dear Robin, everyone in here should be know that i am a muslim Alhamdulillah. And i'm not trying to make some mix perspective in here. What i was trying to do in her thread regarding on what happen to her is, to let her choose her own believe of faith. She had a vision about number, then i give in something that might has a related with what she has been trought it.And i give other option rather then the Bible, that is what is in the Quran.And I try to be fair in here, by brought up 2 link 'Books' which considered Holy by each Follower who holding it. Because i am a muslim then I bring Quran as a something that might lead her to the truth, but just to be fair, i bring to her a bible also, by giving such, i hope she will have a comparison between 2 faith. And I'm not trying to make down other faith in this matter, what i'm trying to do is just to be fair. And then let God and she make of her own decission.I believe if she indeed really seeking a truth, she will follow what it might should be. And i know what the answer is, but still i want her to choose her own believe.Only with the clean heart(be honest) and clear mind and a truely intention to seeking truth, can see the truth it self. Otherwise only God(Allah) Knows Bests. Wallahu a'lam.

(BondiHarry;43914)
Cybella, there are many ways to come to the realization that there is a creator. Once you come to that realization, there are ways to learn who that creator is.For the first, one is to use science as man understands it. The theory of evolution, being used to explain the origins of species, has some glaring scientific deficiencies. Micro-evolution is fairly well established (changes within an already existing species) but macro-evolution (one species changing into another) has never been observed despite a great deal of study into it. The lack of transitional forms of life between types of creatures is another. The theory of evolution says changes happen slowly over time but studying the 'evolution' of man shows very little indication of gradual intermediaries but latches onto some rather impressive, multiple changes occurring over a short period time. In addition, there is the Cambrian age where life forms became very complex over a relatively short period of time. And then there is the problem with how life started 'spontaneously'. What we know of cellular structure, the conditions that likely existed long ago (all this assuming we actually understand how to properly date things which is another can of worms in its own right) and the means that life forms copy themselves (dna/genetics) make the idea of life starting spontaneously ridiculous. And when every single experiment conducted to test the possibility that life could start spontaneously has failed to ever produce life, one has to at least begin to question its validity. So if the life forms we know could not start spontaneously and do not change from one species into another, what does that say?Another proof is the varied life forms we do have. Could evolution have led to the caterpillar which then transforms into a butterfly? What plausible series of events would gradually lead a life form to make a cocoon and emerge from it an entirely different creature? For that matter, what plausible series of events would lead to such magnificent structures as the human eye or brain?Another proof if you will is the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Some may dismiss the miracles he performed as old wives tales but they were none-the-less witnessed by many. That Christ lived and the Biblical account of his life is further substantiated by references as far flung as even Roman historians.Another proof is the Bible itself. There are those of course who dismiss the Bible as being written by men but anyone who truly studies the Bible has to note the prophecies, the moral lessons, how accurately it pegs the passions of mankind and come away, if they are being honest, realizing that the Bible cannot be the product of the human mind. Man in his natural, carnal state does not think as Christ taught. Of course there are numerous 'contradictions' that are touted as being in the Bible which 'proves' it is indeed the product of fallible man (or so it is claimed by those who cannot stand the idea of a creator). However, are such claims accurate or are they the result of a lack of knowledge/understanding of what the Bible says? I have studied some of the reputed contradictions (ex. God is evil/God is not evil OR the supposed two different accounts of the creation of man in genesis) and find the problem is more with those who see the contradiction than with the Bible itself.There are many Biblical stories that have been dismissed but as we learn more from the archeological and historical record we find evidence that stories previously dismissed as impluasible become very plausible. There are records outside of the Bible that document the ten plagues of Egypt, the exodus of the Jewish people and so many names recorded in the Bible.Of course, establishing that there is a creator doesn't automatically tell us the nature of that creator but I hope what I've posted at least leads you to consider, based on impirical evidence, that there must be a creator.
an excellent post Harry.

(Cybella;42583)
I would like very much to believe that God exists, but I cannot seem to prove it to myself. Is there any proof for his existence, besides the Bible or "just faith"? I was brought up to be a Christian, but now that I am older I am more convinced by science than a preacher's words. Can anyone help me?
Hi Cybella,I think Donnie's response to you was a perfect one!If there were no eternal self-existent Being, what could there be now?A simple argument from philosophy goes like this. If there ever was a time when there was NOTHING at all . . . absolutely nothing, what could there be now?Answer? Nothing. There is a Latin phrase "ex nihilo nihil fit"="from nothing, nothing comes." Nothing is not a something. Nothing cannot create anything. It's just NOTHING!So we know that there always has been a Being that existed.This Being could not have created itself (Himself) because we have just said that this Being would then have had to not exist and then exist somehow? . . . out of Nothing??This Being could not have been created by Something (Someone) else, or that Something else would have to be the eternal Being. A silly argument if you think about it.We're left with one choice. Since we see that there is a you and a me and billions of others and creatures and plants and stars and planets and amazing order in all these things, there must always have been a Self-existent Being that has the power of Life within Himself and who gave existence to all that we see and know.Logical? If anything exists, let alone the beauty of the order in existing things, there has to be an eternal Creator of all.This eternal Creator we call God!waynemlj

A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Cybella;44540)
Once again, I have had a strange dream. But, where the last one disturbed me, this one genuinely frightened me.I was again in the place that was beyond sight, beyond any kind of images. There was nothing but the wordless voice. It seemed to speak to me again, but this time I had no understanding at all, I could make no sense of it in the least. But then, I felt rather than heard the numbers: 13 and 50. With the numbers came the most horrible pain that i have ever felt, more horrible than I thought any person could feel. I heard screams, tormented horrible screams with my ears and my whole body. There was so much pain in every nerve of my body that I forgot where my body even was. I tried to scream, but my voice was lost among the others. I wanted it to stop, needed it to stop. I wanted to die, would do anything to die and stop the pain. "Please" I could hear my voice then, though barely over the roar of the screams. "Please!" It was then that the pain stopped, the voices faded. The blackness was still black as ever, but it seemed to grow warmer, glow almost. I felt the numbers 3 and 16 touch me gently, as if they had been blown by a gentle breeze. The dream faded...What should I make of this? It all seemed so much sharper, so much more real than a normal dream. And yet, I cannot help but be skeptical. I will admit that my skepticism is beginning to fade, but I am confused and frightened as ever. Can anyone help me? What do the numbers mean?
About Number 50 and 13And (the tribe of) A'ad, and Pharaoh, and the brethren of Lot,(Quran Chapter 13 Verse 50).If you want to see next, insha Allah i will you bring the next verse of this Chapter.And the dwellers in the wood, and the folk of Tubb'a: every one denied their messengers, therefor My threat took effect.(14)Were We then worn out by the first creation? Yet they are in doubt about a new creation.(15)We verily created man and We know what his soul whispereth to him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.(16)When the two Receivers receive (him), seated on the right hand and on the left,(17)He uttereth no word but there is with him an observer ready.(18)And the agony of death cometh in truth. (And it is said unto him): This is that which thou wast wont to shun.(19)And the trumpet is blown. This is the threatened Day.(20)And every soul cometh, along with it a driver and a witness.(21)(And unto the evil-doer it is said): Thou wast in heedlessness of this. Now We have removed from thee thy covering, and piercing is thy sight this day.(22)And (unto the evil-doer) his comrade saith: This is that which I have ready (as testimony).(23)(And it is said): Do ye twain hurl to hell each rebel ingrate, (24)Hinderer of good, transgressor, doubter,(25)Who setteth up another god along with Allah. Do ye twain hurl him to the dreadful doom.(26)His comrade saith: Our Lord! I did not cause him to rebel, but he was (himself) far gone in error.(27)He saith: Contend not in My presence, when I had already proffered unto you the warning.(28)The sentence that cometh from Me cannot be changed, and I am in no wise a tyrant unto the slaves.(29)On the day when We say unto hell: Art thou filled? and it saith: Can there be more to come?(30)About Number 3 and 16Those who say: Our Lord! Lo! we believe. So forgive us our sins and guard us from the punishment of Fire;(Quran Chapter 3 verse 16)He hath created the heavens and the earth with truth. High be He Exalted above all that they associate (with Him).(Quran Chapter 16 Verse 3)Wallahu a'lam.

(Cybella;44540)
Once again, I have had a strange dream. But, where the last one disturbed me, this one genuinely frightened me.I was again in the place that was beyond sight, beyond any kind of images. There was nothing but the wordless voice. It seemed to speak to me again, but this time I had no understanding at all, I could make no sense of it in the least. But then, I felt rather than heard the numbers: 13 and 50. With the numbers came the most horrible pain that i have ever felt, more horrible than I thought any person could feel. I heard screams, tormented horrible screams with my ears and my whole body. There was so much pain in every nerve of my body that I forgot where my body even was. I tried to scream, but my voice was lost among the others. I wanted it to stop, needed it to stop. I wanted to die, would do anything to die and stop the pain. "Please" I could hear my voice then, though barely over the roar of the screams. "Please!" It was then that the pain stopped, the voices faded. The blackness was still black as ever, but it seemed to grow warmer, glow almost. I felt the numbers 3 and 16 touch me gently, as if they had been blown by a gentle breeze. The dream faded...What should I make of this? It all seemed so much sharper, so much more real than a normal dream. And yet, I cannot help but be skeptical. I will admit that my skepticism is beginning to fade, but I am confused and frightened as ever. Can anyone help me? What do the numbers mean?
The 13 and 50 are a puzzle, but if they caused you pain, perhaps they are to be avoided. Now for 3 and 16, every Christian knows this one. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begottn son, that whosoever believeth upon Him shall have everlasting life. I believe Christ is reaching out to you and that Satan is trying to stop you.

(Ricky W;44366)
A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimDear Robin, everyone in here should be know that i am a muslim Alhamdulillah. And i'm not trying to make some mix perspective in here. What i was trying to do in her thread regarding on what happen to her is, to let her choose her own believe of faith. She had a vision about number, then i give in something that might has a related with what she has been trought it.And i give other option rather then the Bible, that is what is in the Quran.And I try to be fair in here, by brought up 2 link 'Books' which considered Holy by each Follower who holding it. Because i am a muslim then I bring Quran as a something that might lead her to the truth, but just to be fair, i bring to her a bible also, by giving such, i hope she will have a comparison between 2 faith. And I'm not trying to make down other faith in this matter, what i'm trying to do is just to be fair. And then let God and she make of her own decission.I believe if she indeed really seeking a truth, she will follow what it might should be. And i know what the answer is, but still i want her to choose her own believe.Only with the clean heart(be honest) and clear mind and a truely intention to seeking truth, can see the truth it self. Otherwise only God(Allah) Knows Bests. Wallahu a'lam.
I am not here to argue with you or condemn you, but honestly Islam isnt really another option. I believe she is in need of Gods love, love that can only be expressed thru Christ. I can understand your attempt to give and alternative but isnt it true that you cannot trully undestand the Quran unless you can read Arabic?

(adren@line;44282)
The God of the three Semitic traditions and mainstream Hinduism is based on faith and emotion.Nope wrong answer. You cannot hope to understand a relationship with Jesus Christ in your current state.This how the adherents get to "know" God, which is based on group behavior, singing, and inducing emotional states. This is faith.Nope again. This is a popular belief, but I get more out of private time with Christ than what is popularly believed.The God of the philosophers and mystics is based on rationality and observations in nature. With some schools of thought, most specifically deism, there is still a small amount of secondary faith involved.He doesnt exist but in their minds. The ture most High God is the God of the Bible. Never changing and full of love.This pattern is easily seen with most cultures. If one starts with India, the majority of the Hindus were polytheists/henotheists, ritualistic, and idolatrous. The wandering ascetics and intellectuals rejected all of that (but not in spite) and instead used the facilities of rationality, logic, and meditation as well as observing nature.Do me a favor. Read the Bible. Start at the beginning and seriously compare the ways the world has changed while God has stayed the same.The Greek philosophers such as Aristotle, Plato, etc all believed in radicaly different ideas than the rest of the populace, who were polytheists. In Islam, the Sufi mystics meditated and contemplated on the nature of God through the means of rationality, while the every-day Muslims simply worshipped God.You might want to look a little deeper into Islam, you seem to be missing something, actually several somethings. As for Aristotle and Plato, do you realize that there is very little evidence that they even existed?In other words, the God of the man of faith is a God that is worshipped. The God of the philosopher is a God that is pondered upon.The God of Christianity is the Christians best friend and your concept of worship is lacking when it comes to Christianity. We do not worship because we are ordered to, we worship because we are grateful for all He has done for us. We also ponder upon His word and all His mysteries.Both advocate experiencing God, the former through group activity and altered emotional states, the the latter through the exact opposite, ie engaging in meditation in-order to clear the mind and "free the ego".
Your not an athiest, LOL, your are acting more like a Buddhist, no wonder you are so defensive of Buddhism. You have an inappropriate concept of Christianity. Group activity is not our way of worship and neither are emotional states. Brother you are way off and dont even know it. Are you reading what you just wrote? You mention meditation, thats Christian, you mention clear the mind, we call it prayer and focusing on God, you mention free the ego, we call it humbling ourselves. I hope you learned something from this. You see we as Christians have a personal relationship with God, while your philosophy, rationality and logic only serve to lie to you and seperate you from God and His truth.

Ive been to plenty of church services. There is hardly such a thing as "loner Christianity". It lives and thrives off of the group setting which includes emotional episodes of singing and preaching.Without the group setting, it doesn't have the same effect, atleast IMO.Understanding Jesus?You wouldnt know how I understand Jesus. Him and I do have a personal relationship. You are in no position to denounce who Jesus has a relationship with and who he doesnt. If I were to tell you that Jesus himself told me not to become a Christian, then you are in no position to question Him.Private time?Most Christians convert after experiences of group activity and intense singing/preaching/worship. Many Christians do not stay Christians if they are removed from the group setting and other Christians.Read the Bible?Already read it.Islam?Been studying it since 9/11. I know plenty about it. And in case you didnt know, there is a difference between a Sufi and Muslim.Aristotle and Plato not existing?Cant comment on this without being banned.Defensive of Buddhism?Hardly. From a rationalist POV, there are many things to like about Buddhism and a few to dislike. When people make allegations that Buddhism "plagarized" the OT (kind of like people who think the moon-landing is fake and 9/11 was planned by the Jews), such nonsense must be addressed.

(Cybella;44540)
Once again, I have had a strange dream. But, where the last one disturbed me, this one genuinely frightened me.I was again in the place that was beyond sight, beyond any kind of images. There was nothing but the wordless voice. It seemed to speak to me again, but this time I had no understanding at all, I could make no sense of it in the least. But then, I felt rather than heard the numbers: 13 and 50. With the numbers came the most horrible pain that i have ever felt, more horrible than I thought any person could feel. I heard screams, tormented horrible screams with my ears and my whole body. There was so much pain in every nerve of my body that I forgot where my body even was. I tried to scream, but my voice was lost among the others. I wanted it to stop, needed it to stop. I wanted to die, would do anything to die and stop the pain. "Please" I could hear my voice then, though barely over the roar of the screams. "Please!" It was then that the pain stopped, the voices faded. The blackness was still black as ever, but it seemed to grow warmer, glow almost. I felt the numbers 3 and 16 touch me gently, as if they had been blown by a gentle breeze. The dream faded...What should I make of this? It all seemed so much sharper, so much more real than a normal dream. And yet, I cannot help but be skeptical. I will admit that my skepticism is beginning to fade, but I am confused and frightened as ever. Can anyone help me? What do the numbers mean?
Hi Cybella,These dreams sounds very frightening. I am really not sure what you should make of this. It could be just a dream or it could be something more. If these dreams are spiritual in nature (and I am not trying to say one way or the other) then it can either be from God or the devil. God will never inflict pain on you to make a point. He will allow you to feel pain, (we all suffer in this world - that is not God's doing but he can use our suffering to help us and others) but he won't ever inflict it on you. The devil will try to deceive you at every turn. He will try to do whatever he can to keep you from God. Since you have joined this forum and are asking questions about God, it could be that the devil is trying to frighten you so much that you will stop asking questions. As to the numbers 13 and 50 I have no idea, but you mention the numbers 3 and 16 to any Christian and they will immediately say John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life." For every Christian this is a special verse and sums up the entire Bible. Perhaps the 3 and 16 was your way of comprehending God's alleviation of the oppression inflicted on you. Perhaps it was nothing. Perhaps it was part of the 'attack', perhaps not. It may not have been anything more than a nightmare. Dreams can make any sensation in the mind feel totally real. It is possible. But it is unlikely that even the worst nightmare would have this effect, due to self preservation. This would perhaps lead me to the conclusion that what you experienced was an attack - but there is no way of knowing for sure.Whether the dream was a message, or an attack or just a dream, I do know this: God loves you and wants you to know him. The only way you can know him is through Jesus Christ. I don't know if you have read much of the Bible, but I would suggest you read one of the gospels (possible Mark or John). Before you do so, with sincerity of heart, ask God to show you the truth. If you seek him with a sincere heart, you will find him. Do not be deceived by the devil - he is the father of lies and he will try to deceive you if you seek God.I'll tell my experience if it helps...When you mentioned the gentle touch, it certainly came to my mind about my experience of God before committing myself to him. I was at the lowest point of my life and I felt God's presence and his voice inside my mind (in a similar way that you mentioned) telling me to go to church. The voice was so soft and gentle, and that is how I have often experienced God. He is never forceful or demanding, always gentle, calm and patient. I obeyed the voice, not because I felt forced to do so, but because I knew it to be what I needed to do. On the night I went to church, I felt like something was physically trying to stop me going - like there was a barrier that I was pushing against. I felt this until I walked onto the church grounds. I have undergone "attacks" since then also, but always God has provided me with a way out, a means of protection.The similarities may be nothing more than coincidence. I really do not know what to make of your dream.

Cybella, That dream is clearly similar to many accounts I've read of hell....in near deeath experience accounts. It's always similar no matter where in the world the person wrote from or what variations in their experience...there is ultimately either an experience in the light where Christ is present or one in the dark where there is fear and darkness and tormenting, as you described...the person seeing or sensing presence of people or creatures who call to them and lead them somewhere and torment them with words, laughter, etc... the feeling of wanting to escape and not being able to etc...Many have been converted after such experiences. They tried to cry out too...and many for example remembered parts of a prayer or Jesus loves me song when they were a child and managed to connect to belief in God during the episode and cried to God and then found themselves back in the operating room...this time a new person.On the subject of proof...I am someone who saw the proof in my living room, when my dying husband saw the Lord, and I saw and heard him seeing him! To see the look and brightness on someone's face when they see the Lord is more miraculous than any other physical evidence. To hear the things he was saying....to me!...during this froze my attention!....because more than him was speaking to me also....this was a real visitation....and my Phil was healed there also...within minutes and obviously miraculously...since he was obviously dying and this others saw also, not just me....his mother...and in another moment standing and completely well until this day....But a real point is this....More blessed is he that has not seen and believes" God is not going to prove himself to man on man's grounds! He has already become a man for us! He's already given the greatest sacrifice...Himself! for us....Do we comprehend? That for this fallen race God sacrificed his own self to save us? And we are going to grumble and complain and say, god it isn't enough....we need more proof!My friends, the proof is in our heart...not out in the world. The deciding ground is not in our mind! It's in our heart....it's our Will! Lucifer said, "I "will" exalt myself above the throne of the Most High," and his will got him cast down from the heavens like lightening. What will our....will.....do for us? This no doubt was the most amazing thing I've seen in 30 years of being saved and a passionate lover of my Savior...and I've seen other than this....but I didn't have to see it...I believed no less before I saw it....God reveals his secrets to those who love him....and we don't choose him or receive his love that enables us to love him by alot of physical proof....we receive it by faith in him. And recognizing our need for him is what leads us to look for him and find him....or for him to make himself known to us. He will find us if we want him.But if we stand around and say in our pompous human pride...Well, I don't know about this God, he may or may not be for me, I'm not decided if he's what I want or if he can benefit me......then we are insulting the Great Salvation he has offerred us by the sacrifice of his beloved Son ...making a mockery of his "Great Salvation," and ...........back to the dream......"How shall we escape if we "neglect so Great a Salvation?" siskim

(adren@line;44917)
Ive been to plenty of church services. There is hardly such a thing as "loner Christianity". It lives and thrives off of the group setting which includes emotional episodes of singing and preaching.I did not say loner Christians, but I did say the environment you discribed is inaccurate. I avoided the Church environment for 3 years and grew more in my faith in that time than I did going to any Church.Without the group setting, it doesn't have the same effect, atleast IMO.As you said, your opinion, but that doesnt make it fact.Understanding Jesus?You wouldnt know how I understand Jesus. Him and I do have a personal relationship. You are in no position to denounce who Jesus has a relationship with and who he doesnt. If I were to tell you that Jesus himself told me not to become a Christian, then you are in no position to question Him.If you trully believe what you claim, then you have no relationship with Christ. You have already rejected God on many levels. so how can you claim a relationship with Christ?Private time?Most Christians convert after experiences of group activity and intense singing/preaching/worship. Many Christians do not stay Christians if they are removed from the group setting and other Christians.Then you dont know many Christians. Once you trully become a Christian, there is no turning back.Read the Bible?Already read it.Good start.Islam?Been studying it since 9/11. I know plenty about it. And in case you didnt know, there is a difference between a Sufi and Muslim.You might want to check again, Sufi is a sect of Islam, therefore making it Muslim.Aristotle and Plato not existing?Cant comment on this without being banned.Do you realize that the closest documentary evidence we have for either of them is so little. There are only 49 original language manuscripts for Plato and they are from 1300 years after he wrote them. As for Aristotle we only have seven original language manuscripts and they are from 1400 years after He wrote them. There is much more documentary evidence for the NT and they are much closer to original writing, spanning between 50 and 150 years after Christ. I did not say they didnt exist, I merely stated the evidence is very scarce.Defensive of Buddhism?Hardly. From a rationalist POV, there are many things to like about Buddhism and a few to dislike. When people make allegations that Buddhism "plagarized" the OT (kind of like people who think the moon-landing is fake and 9/11 was planned by the Jews), such nonsense must be addressed.
Hey I balive the moon landing happened and 911 was a Muslim extremist attack. As for Buddhism, it is just another rejection of the one true God and His Holy Word.

Thank you siskim for sharing that amazing testamony. I know that our present suffering is nothing compared to the glory that we will have when we see our Lord Jesus Christ. We are truly blessed that he should love us so much.

(RobinD69;44988)
Hey I balive the moon landing happened and 911 was a Muslim extremist attack. As for Buddhism, it is just another rejection of the one true God and His Holy Word.
Stating that Buddhism is a plagiarism of the OT and "a rejection of the one true God" is equally as credible as stating that the moon landing was fake, Saddam Hussien is still alive, 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy, AIDS was developed by the US Government to kill off black people, etc.In the end, any "normal" person with a reasonable critical thinking ability doesn't believe any of that. Of course, the people who do believe in these off-beat "theories" are so-convinced that they are true that they aren't willing to listen to anyone else and insist that they are right and possess some special knowledge that the worlds intellectuals do not.

(adren@line;44999)
Stating that Buddhism is a plagiarism of the OT and "a rejection of the one true God" is equally as credible as stating that the moon landing was fake, Saddam Hussien is still alive, 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy, AIDS was developed by the US Government to kill off black people, etc.In the end, any "normal" person with a reasonable critical thinking ability doesn't believe any of that. Of course, the people who do believe in these off-beat "theories" are so-convinced that they are true that they aren't willing to listen to anyone else and insist that they are right and possess some special knowledge that the worlds intellectuals do not.
You seriously need to do more research than you are. I am not asking you to believe me, I am compelling you to dig deeper which you apparently are not doing. I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am a realist. You equate my remarks to those silly conspiracy theories, and this only serves to confirm your lack of research. Dig deeper my friend and you will find what I have. How about this; Why do you think the Civil War was faught? If you dig deep enough you will find the right answer. Oh and by the way, my cousin was a Historian in Petersburg, Virginia, and my History teacher is a Historian for central Virginia, so I know the answer, lets see if you can find it.

I am sorry Siskim, thank you for sharing and I appologize for not commenting earlier, but I was trying to reach another lost soul.That was beautiful, my father argued with God just before he died. He told God he could leave my mother alone and that he could accept Him because he wanted to stay with her. Aparantly God must have convinced him, because he said "Ok I will do it" and dropped dead on the spot. My mom said he argued with God for about 15 minutes before he gave into the Lord.Thank you for bringing that back to mind for me, you trully are a blessing to my soul.

(RobinD69;45003)
You seriously need to do more research than you are. I am not asking you to believe me, I am compelling you to dig deeper which you apparently are not doing. I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am a realist. You equate my remarks to those silly conspiracy theories, and this only serves to confirm your lack of research. Dig deeper my friend and you will find what I have. How about this; Why do you think the Civil War was faught? If you dig deep enough you will find the right answer. Oh and by the way, my cousin was a Historian in Petersburg, Virginia, and my History teacher is a Historian for central Virginia, so I know the answer, lets see if you can find it.
lol.I find it amusing that you make grandiose comments on Buddhism when you do not know anything about it and then accuse me of not "digging deeper", or "lacking research".The fact is that no-one in their right mind thinks that Buddhism is a plagiarism of the OT. This is a wacky conspiracy theory akin to other wacky conspiracy theories.The only difference between your theory and those theories is at least those theories have some some-what reasonable arguments and some evidence, although ultimately flawed. You, on the other-hand, have a statement, an un-informed opinion, and no evidence. I find it amusing that you try compensate for your lack of scientific, religious, and philosophical knowledge by mentioning something about the civil war. Sorry, but that doesn't work. You may indeed know quite a bit about the civil war, perhaps more than I. But last time I checked, we are on a religious forum discussing religion, philosophy, science, and religious history.