CAN WE FALL AWAY ?

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soul man

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Most all of this thread's disagreement is about legalism or faith only.

If you read the scriptures for what they say a person has to see that legalism has been put aside so that God can show His mercy in a salvation that He has instituted. This salvation was not instituted until Jesus sent Paul out to proclaim it. Paul said the gospel he preached (grace) was hidden in God and revealed to him for us. It is not based on Jesus laws or rituals in religion. It is based on what God's Son did on the cross ONLY.

Those who believe in legalism believe salvation is obtained by what a person DOES. In legalism mankind thinks God owes them salvation.

God does not owe them anything if they refuse to believe Jesus' shed blood has paid for their sins of the flesh. When a person is so warped up in the idea that God owes them salvation because they follow Jesus' commandments they are only fooling themselves since no man/woman can keep those commandments.

The scripture plainly tells us the Paul's gospel was hidden in God and revealed to him for us. If a person does not understand that there was a change from legalism to grace then they will never see God's plan of salvation. But religious people only believe in what they think they can do. Even though history has proven that no man/woman can keep God's commandments. They are blind to that fact.

Nice comment, if believers are going to follow on to know the Lord they will have to follow Paul in his understanding. I can understand people that use all scripture to try to make a gospel that will fit them. It is all the written inspired word of God, just not all written to us as a message, life application yes. So the battle goes and will continue for the born again until they accept the fact God used one man to usher in grace. He must be followed or nothing in your understanding as believer/believers ever fits you.
 
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Taken

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BOL yes, the believer is the salt by himself/herself. I never said the gospel is the salt or light.

You keep saying things like rubbish, like to this topic, but you at the same time cannot provide any useful reasoning for your stance. Why is that? No one including myself can take you seriously, and that you really believe what you say. By now you must have gotten this message?

Bless you,

APAK

He can not provide reasoning....Because of what he does is nonsense...

Repeatedly what he Does...
1) ignore another mans words
2) speak FOR the other man, what the man has NOT said.
3) then call the "his own words, he speaks FOR the man"...."Rubbish".

He has been called out on this repeatedly....
Yet he cannot refrain from continuing his schrade.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Taken

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Men who have obtained knowledge...
....can fall Away.

Men who have followed and heard and believed...
...can fall Away.

Men who have "tasted" of the Lords Enlightment...
...can fall Away.

Men who have "tasted" and "partaken" of the Holy Spirit having given them measures of FAITH...
...can fall Away.

And we have Examples of men IN Scripture, WHO...have;
Gained Knowledge...
...and fell Away
Tasted Englightenment...
...and fell Away
Partaken of Gods Spirit giving them FAITH...
...and fell Away.

They BEGAN.....Yet did not CONTINUE ....
1) receiving knowledge
2) being enlightened
3) receiving FAITH

They Exercising their own Freewill of DISCONTINUING...Effected...
...their falling AWAY.

They are IN THE GROUP, of the Many who were Called.....and Answered the CALL...and THEN Rejected their Calling.

Then there is the GROUP, of the FEW who were Called....AND CONTINUED ...
1) receiving knowledge
2) being enlightened
3) receiving FAITH

That they Became PREPARED TO Confess AND Give their Life TO the Lord.....

And ONCE PREPARED....THEY Exercised THEIR freewill TO "actually" call ON the Lord;
1) make their Confession
2) Repent
3) Give their Life TO the Lord
4) ELECT TO "actually" BECOME CONVERTED.
5) they ARE the FEW, the ELECT, the CHOSEN, the CONVERTED, the FOREVER with God.

THEY ARE Men WHO ARE now prepared TO WALK in HIS Perfection.

THESE MEN...SHALL NEVER AGAIN Be separated from God.

THESE MEN...SHALL NEVER AGAIN SIN AGAINST GOD in Disbelieve or Rejection of Him.

THESE MEN...SHALL FOREVER Have an Everlasting Restored Living soul.

THESE MEN...SHALL FOREVER Have an Everlasting Quickened Living spirit.

THESE MEN...SHALL FOREVER Have a cleansed, sanctified, body that is justified to be Redeemed and raised up in Glory.

THESE MEN...are ALREADY Converted, Saved, Born again, Sanctified, Perfected, Made Whole, and KEPT with and in the Lord Forever, By the Power of God.

THESE MEN...are "NEW" "CREATURES".

THESE MEN....SHALL "NEVER" fall away.

When a man TEACHES otherwise....That man IS attempting to TURN Gods TRUTH INTO A LIE....which IS Totally Against the Will of God.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Nancy

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He can not provide reasoning....Because of what he does is nonsense...

Repeatedly what he Does...
1) ignore another mans words
2) speak FOR the other man, what the man has NOT said.
3) then call the "his own words, he speaks FOR the man"...."Rubbish".

He has been called out on this repeatedly....
Yet he cannot refrain from continuing his schrade.

God Bless,
Taken
This guy must be miserable. He seems angry all the time and just wants to be right. Why not just ignore him? Just sayin! :)
 

Taken

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This guy must be miserable. He seems angry all the time and just wants to be right. Why not just ignore him? Just sayin! :)

I can not correct BOL's stubbornness.
I can not Understand FOR BOL.

I have said to him, and will say to you...
Although I address his posts, they are not TO him FOR him...

They ARE for them standing by WHO ARE seeking the Word of God, and them who comprehend the Word of God in shared fellowship IN Christ.

It is an action Jesus Himself did, and I see as a lesson unto us who have fellowship with Christ Jesus.

John 11:42

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Nancy

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I can not correct BOL's stubbornness.
I can not Understand FOR BOL.

I have said to him, and will say to you...
Although I address his posts, they are not TO him FOR him...

They ARE for them standing by WHO ARE seeking the Word of God, and them who comprehend the Word of God in shared fellowship IN Christ.

It is an action Jesus Himself did, and I see as a lesson unto us who have fellowship with Christ Jesus.

John 11:42

God Bless,
Taken
Well, when you put it that way...yeah, I can definitely understand. You never know who might be taking certain things to heart-especially babes in Christ...
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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If you believe that a born again person cannot fall away and be lost - then please explain the following excerpt to me from the Book of Hebrews - because NOBODY here has been able to do so . . .

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth
, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

I doubt you will be open to correction, but the Lord may surprise me.

The knowledge of the truth is that there no longer remains sacrifice for sins. It is that willful sin in spite of having that knowledge of the truth for which God will judge His people by for treating the Son's blood of the New Covenant to be on par with the blood of goats and bulls that we need receiving that one time sacrifice for sins "again"... even in an unbloody manner.

That means God will be judging all participants of the Mass unless they repent and only do communion in remembrance of Him like He said to do plainly.
 
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GodsGrace

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BOL I thought it was time again to go over your famous eight 'loss of salvation' verses. Of course my meanings of them are completely different from yours, not twisted to conform to the presented premise that salvation loss = faith loss = belief loss + obedience loss based on YOUR OWN BIASED INTERPRETATION of scripture.

I would agree with your relationship, and its not really yours, it is scriptural, if you used it correctly to honor God's word. You twist this equation for your own self carnal purpose and not for God's glory.

You consistently disregard context in scripture to force your desired outcome - loss of salvation. You fancy these 8 cherry-picked verses because there are frankly not many more vulnerable ones you can easily carve up or butcher, to distort and to satisfy yourself, regardless of the truth.

I'll just do the first two verses agina. You'll get the other six cherry-picked verses soon.

Matt 5:13 - BOL logic says that ‘salt’= being obedient and having belief in God = salvation. Therefore, the loss of its (salt) flavor means loss of salvation of a believer, according to BOL. Case closed.

(Mat 5:13) You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt has lost its savour, with what shall it be salted? It becomes good for nothing but to be thrown out and trodden under the feet of men. (NEV)

Matt 5:13 has zero to do with the salvation or the threat of its loss.

The ‘salt’ like the ‘light’ are true believers reaching out to the heathen non-believing world. If a believer is to be effective in converting folks, they cannot mix the truth with false ideas of the spirit of this world or from their own mind. If they do, they compromise teaching the gospel of truth; it becomes lies. The salt or the true gospel is compromised and is no good for saving anyone. The heathen will not believe it, will not treasure it and take it to their heart. They will discard it from their minds as cheap or tarsh news of no importance to their lives.

Now the believer that spoils the teaching of the gospel does not serve God correctly or effectively. Does God then say to this believer, I will deny you for this, you have lost your salvation because you are not obedient? Of course not. And does the believer teach a false gospel because he deliberately disobeys God or loses faith because he wants to give himself glory, maybe, probably not? Does the believer then lose his salvation, of course not? That would be a wild stretch, only conceived by a determined or insecure unbeliever or a professing believer.

So BOL, do you still think Matt 5:13 is all about the loss of salvation?

To the next BOL treasured verse – Matthew 7:21

(Mat 7:21) Not everyone that says to me: Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that pleases my Father who is in heaven. (NEV)

I would suggest to BOL to add the next two verses for context.

(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name cast out demons and in your name do many mighty works?
(Mat 7:23) And then will I tell them: I never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity. (ALL NEV)

Now BOL’s logic from verse 21: Not pleasing Jesus’ Father = loss of salvation = loss of faith in God = loss of belief in and obedience to God.

Now in verse 23 it clearly says that those that work lawlessness or evil do not please God.

Now in verse 22 it clearly says that those that worked evil, cast out demons and did mighty works for Christ. Now these cannot be believers. They must be unbelievers who performed these supernatural acts by the power of evil forces, and for good works, that was common in the 1st century as it is today.

Now if BOL says these were believers that fell away, then why did Jesus say he NEVER knew them in verse 23. Never means he never once knew them, ever. If these people were once believers in Christ, Jesus would have said that he used to know them but not now. They must have chosen to 'drop out' by their own-free-will to lose their salvation, aye. Of course that last statement would be completely insane. It would only make sense for an unbeliever, and it does. Unbelievers use their free-will to say who's boss in the face of God. They are of course their own god as evil once took hold of Adam in the same way.

So BOL, do you still think Matt 7:21 is all about the loss of salvation of a believer?

Bless you,


APAK
Apak, you're a learned person, but when you're wrong your wrong.

First of all you're adding words and ideas to a very simple thought and correct exegesis does not allow this.

Jesus said WE are the salt of the earth, not the gospel.
Please don't misquote Him.
If we lose our salt, we are good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Salt was used for this purpose in Jesus time.
Thrown out. No longer welcomed. Unsaved.
This verse is speaking exactly about loss of salvation.

Could you find me one verse that says we cannot lose our salvation?
If this is such an important matter, why was it not clearly stated?
Why instead do we read about warnings, about believing, about remainng IN Christ, about not falling away, about holding on....etc.??
 

GodsGrace

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I doubt you will be open to correction, but the Lord may surprise me.

The knowledge of the truth is that there no longer remains sacrifice for sins. It is that willful sin in spite of having that knowledge of the truth for which God will judge His people by for treating the Son's blood of the New Covenant to be on par with the blood of goats and bulls that we need receiving that one time sacrifice for sins "again"... even in an unbloody manner.

That means God will be judging all participants of the Mass unless they repent and only do communion in remembrance of Him like He said to do plainly.
This is wrong JIF.
Very wrong.
Please read those verses again in an honest manner.

It plainly says that if we continue to sin, there is no hope left for us.
Continue to sin .... Live a life of sin.
 

H. Richard

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Apak, you're a learned person, but when you're wrong your wrong.

First of all you're adding words and ideas to a very simple thought and correct exegesis does not allow this.

Jesus said WE are the salt of the earth, not the gospel.
Please don't misquote Him.
If we lose our salt, we are good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Salt was used for this purpose in Jesus time.
Thrown out. No longer welcomed. Unsaved.
This verse is speaking exactly about loss of salvation.

Could you find me one verse that says we cannot lose our salvation?
If this is such an important matter, why was it not clearly stated?
Why instead do we read about warnings, about believing, about remainng IN Christ, about not falling away, about holding on....etc.??
***

Why are you posting on this forum trying to make the children of God believe God will turn them away after He has paid for their sins of the flesh?

You certainly are not adding any comfort to them but I know you are religious and wish to impose your doubts on others.

I am totally confident that God can keep His children. But it seems that you are not. Make no mistake, God can keep His children and He does. After all, He died for them.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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The 6th chapter of Hebrews has posed numerous problems in understanding just who is being referenced; as well as the meaning of being unable to be
renewed again to repentance.

Hebrews 6th chapter is simply saying it is impossible for someone that was born again of the Spirit to be born again of the Spirit, because no one can become unborn of the Spirit to be born again of the Spirit. That seal of adoption Whom is the Holy spirit, cannot leave the carnal christian, albeit they will grieve Him until they turn to Jesus Christ for help to destroy the works of the devil in their lives to deliver them from their sins to no longer live in them.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The question in the title is "Can we fall away?" Yes when it was prophesied that it can happen, but that does not negate the seal of the Holy Ghost.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

We go to proof that it does not negate the seal of the Holy Ghost by Paul's example of how one had err from the truth and had their faith overthrown from which he acknowledges that all believers still have His seal and that even former believers are called to depart from iniquity so they can be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So the vessels unto dishonor in His House are what? Those that did not depart from iniquity? When does this happen when a believer becomes that permanent as in damned as a vessel unto dishonor in His House? At the pre great tribulation rapture event for why those that have fallen away from the faith or are still in iniquity by the time the Bridegroom has come, that is how they become vessels unto dishonor in His House as castaways.

If the church is not to eat with an unrepentant brother or sister, will that not be the same requirement for attending the Marriage Supper in Heaven?

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

And thus the church are to excommunicate the unrepentant brethren in the hopes they will repent before the Bridegroom comes, if not, He will excommunicate them from the Marriage Supper table in Heaven for the same purpose below for why the church is to excommunicate.

1 Corinthians 5: 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Verses 16-17 above testify to 1 Corinthians 5:5 of the destruction of the flesh which is our physical bodies which are the temples of the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Physical death is the warning for defiling the temple of God for remaining in unrepentant iniquity and thus becoming a castaway as warned below.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

So being cast away unto Satan that will wage war on the saints to the destruction of their flesh is physical death but they are still His, having His seal.

So when God comes to judge His House first at the pre great trib rapture event, we have confidence in Jesus Christ Whom is faithful in keeping the souls of His unrepentant saints left behind that will suffer the fire coming on the earth and the subsequent great tribulation as a result.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
 

H. Richard

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I doubt you will be open to correction, but the Lord may surprise me.

The knowledge of the truth is that there no longer remains sacrifice for sins. It is that willful sin in spite of having that knowledge of the truth for which God will judge His people by for treating the Son's blood of the New Covenant to be on par with the blood of goats and bulls that we need receiving that one time sacrifice for sins "again"... even in an unbloody manner.

That means God will be judging all participants of the Mass unless they repent and only do communion in remembrance of Him like He said to do plainly.

***

The only sin that condemns under grace is the sin of unbelief; to not believe Jesus' shed blood paid for the sins of mankind. To me it seems that the religious do not want others to believe that Jesus has already paid for their sins. Salvation is the work of God, not man.
 

GodsGrace

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***

Why are you posting on this forum trying to make the children of God believe God will turn them away after He has paid for their sins of the flesh?

You certainly are not adding any comfort to them but I know you are religious and wish to impose your doubts on others.

I am totally confident that God can keep His children. But it seems that you are not. Make no mistake, God can keep His children and He does.
Why don't you just reply to my post?
Why don't you look for that verse I've been asking for,,,three years now.
Still no reply.

BTW, you know Nothing about me but what you Think you know.
No personal remarks please.
 

H. Richard

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Why don't you just reply to my post?
Why don't you look for that verse I've been asking for,,,three years now.
Still no reply.

BTW, you know Nothing about me but what you Think you know.
No personal remarks please.


***
What you see in scriptures is not what I see therefore I am not going to get into the battle of scriptures.

Don't get your back up. I can read what you write and you are saying that the children of God can become lost IF they do not do as you want to impose. Are you so unlearned in scripture that you have not read where Paul said he had NO CONFIDENCE IN HIS FLESH? Also check out Romans 7, last verse.
Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

The children of God place their faith, confidence in God's work, not their own works.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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This is wrong JIF.
Very wrong.
Please read those verses again in an honest manner.

It plainly says that if we continue to sin, there is no hope left for us.
Continue to sin .... Live a life of sin.

Thank you fro replying, sister, but in context of that whole chapter, the knowledge of the truth is knowing that there remains no sacrifice for sins.

That is why His words went into disgracing the blood of the covenant.

From the beginning...in order to understand the offense to God..

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

If it is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats can take away sin and yet there was often a need to repeat those sacrifices for sin from which God had no pleasure in them.... why would we assign His blood as unable to take away sins that it bears repeating to receive again and again and again?

By offering that one time sacrifice for sins to be made present in order to receive "again" in an unbloody manner is the offense to God when it was offered one time only and it is by believing in Jesus Christ is how one receives the remission of sins and the promise of the Holy Ghost as that evidence of the Holy Ghost in us as a Witness is for why there is no more need to receive an offering for sins.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us:

To insinuate that a believer needs to receive that one time offering for sins to atone for the sins committed in his or her lifetime since they had been saved is to out the blood of the New Covenant on par with the blood of bulls and of goats and thus denying the witness of the Holy Ghost in us that we are saved that we do not need that type of offering for sins any more.

Hebrews 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. 19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

The witness of the Holy Ghost still being in us since our salvation and will never leave us PROVES there is no more offering for sin.

That is the knowledge of the truth spoken about in this whole chapter that if any saved believers believes otherwise... hoo boy.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

So the sin talked about here is the effect of that sinning willfully part and that is treating the blood of the Covenant on par with the blood of bulls and of goats that His one times sacrifice for sins bears receiving again.

But guess what? Those who commit this sin are still considered His people, but He will judge them unless they repent in time before the Bridegroom comes by only doing communion in remembrance of Him like He plainly said for His disciples to do at the Last Supper. He sure did not refer to the old system on why they need to repeat communion by as if necessary in paying for sins committed thru out the life of the saved believer.

Communion is a celebration and a solemn reminder of what He has done for us that we can rest in Him as saved; it is not to be a work towards our redemption as it cannot be for it denies the witness of the Holy Ghost of our salvation in Christ Jesus in us every time the Mass is done.

So that is why I read that there remains no more sacrifice for sins in keeping with that topic thru out that entire chapter as that knowledge of the truth by which a saved believer may willfully sin by, by doing in spite of that knowledge thus mistreating the Son's blood of the New Covenant in doing so.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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***

The only sin that condemns under grace is the sin of unbelief; to not believe Jesus' shed blood paid for the sins of mankind. To me it seems that the religious do not want others to believe that Jesus has already paid for their sins. Salvation is the work of God, not man.

Those who never believed in Jesus Christ were already condemned as John 3:18 testifies. Rejecting the antidote to the poison of sin will not change the outcome.

There is condemnation to a saved believer if they walk after the flesh. God is not mocked. Whatever a man sows, so shall he reaps. Corruption is coming unless they repent.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit....6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.....

Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Do note heresies as a work of the flesh which those saved believers participating in the Mass for are in need to repent of from doing the Mass again.

2 Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

So there is a consequence but it is not loss of salvation, but loss of the first inheritance of being received as a vessel unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven and have a place; a mansion in the city of God. That means unless a believer departs from iniquity, he or she runs the risk of being left behind at the pre great trib rapture event to be received later on as a vessel unto dishonor in His House but still in His House.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So if a saved believers that walks after the flesh in reaping corruption and does not depart from iniquity by the time the Bridegroom comes....

Now there is hope for carnal believers caught in bondage... especially when they fear the Lord and wants to be free from that bondage to sin.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That also includes the carnal believer leaning on Jesus for help to put away all provisions for the flesh and cast down every wicked thought and even to help him think on good things.

Romans 13:13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. 14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

2 Corinthians 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. 8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

We can only live this reconciled relationship with God THROUGH Jesus Christ for why the just shall live by faith because that faith is in Him to do it.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:........1 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
 

APAK

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Apak, you're a learned person, but when you're wrong your wrong.

First of all you're adding words and ideas to a very simple thought and correct exegesis does not allow this.

Jesus said WE are the salt of the earth, not the gospel.
Please don't misquote Him.
If we lose our salt, we are good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
Salt was used for this purpose in Jesus time.
Thrown out. No longer welcomed. Unsaved.
This verse is speaking exactly about loss of salvation.

Could you find me one verse that says we cannot lose our salvation?
If this is such an important matter, why was it not clearly stated?
Why instead do we read about warnings, about believing, about remainng IN Christ, about not falling away, about holding on....etc.??
Having trouble posting today..being blocked...will try to respond again
 
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GodsGrace

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What you see in scriptures is not what I see therefore I am not going to get into the battle of scriptures.
Well then, HR, one of us is wrong, totally wrong, and I know for sure it's not me because only reformed churches and hyper grace churches believe in OSAS. Eternal security is NOT accepted by mainline Christianity. It's not accepted because it's not true. Only Mr. John Calvin believed this and spread this wrong soteriology around.

Any new Christians reading along will make up their own mind. All it takes is ONE reading of the New Testament with no preconceived ideas.


Don't get your back up. I can read what you write and you are saying that the children of God can become lost IF they do not do as you want to impose.
Get my back up? You mean don't get upset? By you? I hope you know that I'd have to respect a person before I'd get upset by them.

And I don't IMPOSE.
JESUS imposes. Children of God know what Jesus said, they know what He taught, they know what HE expects from them...


John 14:21 JESUS SAID
21He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

What commandments do you suppose JESUS is talking about?

John 14:23 JESUS SAID

23Jesus answered and said to him,If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me."

JESUS said if anyone loves Him, he will keep His word.
What word? Did Jesus have nothing to say according to you?
IF one keeps His word, then Jesus abides with them.
IF they DO NOT keep His word, then He does NOT abide with them.

Very simple English.
Jesus is not hangin' with anybody that does not love Him.


Are you so unlearned in scripture that you have not read where Paul said he had NO CONFIDENCE IN HIS FLESH? Also check out Romans 7, last verse.
Phil 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

The children of God place their faith, confidence in God's work, not their own works.
Oh. This is interesting.
What does worshipping God in spirit mean?
What does rejoicing in Christ mean?
What does not having confidence in our flesh mean?

Could it, maybe, mean that we are to heed the words of Jesus and the commandments of Jesus?

And, you DO think about works a lot.
Guilty conscience?
 

APAK

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@GodsGrace

GodsGrace, one more time and no more...below ( if I do not get blocked again) is my recent reply to BOL because evidently you have the same wax in the ears problem..please read it carefully because you are also saying things I never said...then get back with me, if you want. I am just getting a little frustrated that you can read with twisting my words...what gives?


Bless you,


APAK
 
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