If you believe it is God's will that you live in poverty and sickness=you got it!

Heart2Soul · Aug 4, 2018

Enoch111 said:
Firstly, I do not watch any of these preachers. But even so, to answer your question, the problem can only be solved when the multi-millionaire preachers are convicted by the Holy Spirit to stop diverting the donations provided for genuine ministry, and assume that they were sent to enrich them personally. But even then, chances are they would not listen to the Holy Spirit.

'It is equally clear, however, simply by looking at the parade of mansions, private jets, extensive security details, and skyscrapers built not to glorify God, but to glorify the ministers who built them, that significant portions of the donations they receive aren’t doing anything that could even remotely be described as “God’s Work.”'

https://moneyinc.com/dissecting-multi-billion-dollar-business-televangelism/

And yet our Lord and Saviour, Jesus goes to prepare for us a Mansion....why not just a shack....and the streets of heaven are paved with gold....why not just dirt.....the gates of heaven are made out of pearls....why not just wooden gates....Do you see the hypocrisy in saying that God does not desire us to prosper? He wants us to lack for nothing.....and He wants us to be givers and not receivers....His Word says it is better to be the lender and not the borrower....I am still baffled that you begrudge ministries for being wealthy.....you just cannot outgive God....period.

Heart2Soul · Aug 4, 2018

Truth said:
Let us not forget, that at the temptation of Our Lord, Satan offered Him the Wealth of the World, Stating, I will give it to Who I choose.
If you notice, the Lord did not disagree with Satan. God is a Legalist , when Adam fell, Satan became the prince of this world, he was defeated by the Lord at the cross, and when the Lamb strip's the seal's from the deed to this world it will be over.
Paul even states that Satan is the god of His age, and still is today, So anyone who teaches false Doctrine can be enriched by the wicked one!
Not saying all are teaching false doctrine, one must be wise in there discernment before just sending money!

Yes, offering the wealth of the world without the law of sowing and reaping is not of God.....whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reap....and his return of what he sows is MULTIPLIED back to him not equally exchanged penny for penny.

Enoch111 · Aug 4, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
Do you see the hypocrisy in saying that God does not desire us to prosper?

I have not said that at all. God may desire some to prosper and others not to prosper.

There is nothing to stop these men and women from creating and prospering in their own businesses, if wealth is their goal (even though covetousness is idolatry), and then preaching the Gospel at no charge. That is exactly what Paul did. What is OFFENSIVE is making merchandise of the Gospel, when the Lord said "Freely ye have received, freely give".

Do you see the difference, or will you continue to make excuses for these people who bring shame to Christ?

Heart2Soul · Aug 4, 2018

Enoch111 said:
I have not said that at all. God may desire some to prosper and others not to prosper.

There is nothing to stop these men and women from creating and prospering in their own businesses, if wealth is their goal (even though covetousness is idolatry), and then preaching the Gospel at no charge. That is exactly what Paul did. What is OFFENSIVE is making merchandise of the Gospel, when the Lord said "Freely ye have received, freely give".

Do you see the difference, or will you continue to make excuses for these people who bring shame to Christ?

All of these ministries started out small....I have read testimony after testimony of how many started out as a street ministry....or in a small church...or in evangelizing....when I was attending a small church with a total membership of 100 people a couple came and held a revival there...they were not pastors at that time....years later I moved to Tulsa and they were pastors of a mega church....and now have a world-wide ministry....they were obedient to answer the call on their lives to go into ministry....my pastor believed in paying for everything in cash and not to be in debt to no one....as the church grew they needed bigger buildings....everything in this ministry is bought and paid for by the members of the church....and it still continues to grow.....a pastor of a church of 100 members may not prosper as much as one of a member of over 6000 members but God is the one building up the ministry not them.

Heart2Soul · Aug 4, 2018

Another thing....satan is a mocker of what God intended...yes there will be preachers who feed themselves and not their sheep...as prophesied in Ezekial…34:2-4
A Prophecy Against Israel's Shepherds
…2“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Woe to the shepherds of Israel, who only feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed their flock? 3You eat the fat, wear the wool, and butcher the fattened sheep, but you do not feed the flock. 4You have not strengthened the weak, healed the sick, bound up the injured, brought back the strays, or searched for the lost. Instead, you have ruled them with violence and cruelty.…
Isaiah 56:10-12
Israel's Sinful Leaders
…10 Israel’s watchmen are blind, they are all oblivious; they are all mute dogs, they cannot bark; they are dreamers lying around, loving to slumber. 11 Like ravenous dogs, they are never satisfied. They are shepherds with no discernment; they all turn to their own way, each one seeking his own gain: 12 “Come, let me get the wine, let us imbibe the strong drink, and tomorrow will be like today, only far better!”…
Matthew 23:14
Woes to Scribes and Pharisees
…Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. …

But God's Word says that He will remove their lampstand....
Revelation 2:5
To the Church in Ephesus
…4But I have this against you: You have abandoned your first love. 5Therefore, keep in mind how far you have fallen. Repent and perform the deeds you did at first. But if you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6But you have this to your credit: You hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.…

So which ministry is guilty of the above? I have seen them come and go throughout my lifetime....they get exposed and their ministry fails.

amadeus · Aug 5, 2018

Truth said:
I Liked Your Post!
Consider this about the one mentioned above! Jesus Invited him to Join, and follow, But He went away disturbed for He had much!
I know this is speculation, BUT could this young man been Paul! Paul went after the Way, with a vengeance!
Just a thought!

It is an interesting thought, one which never occurred to me. Thank you for sharing. One problem with it is that when he left Jesus he had been given a specific instruction to divest himself of all material goods and give the proceeds to the poor. After his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus he goes on to write many things which we see in the NT. It would seem that somewhere among the personal histories and testimonies that we see in his own writings and/or in the book of Acts some mention that he was once a very rich man and now he was only a humble tent maker.

Even at the encounter on the road to Damascus, would not Jesus have said something about the requirement previously put of the rich ruler? Since he did not, why wouldn't He have done so?

If you can draw a definite connection I would really like to hear it. Thank you for your kind words.

Dcopymope · Aug 5, 2018

Triumph1300 said:
I also believe sickness and poverty is designed by satan, the enemy.

God created people to have fellowship with.
How can He fellowship when He gives His friends poverty and sickness.

If one believe sickness comes from God, don't pray for healing,
because doing so would be against God's will wouldn't it?

Well it was God that cursed the ground we stand on. So him being the source of sickness, which in itself can lead to death isn't totally out of the realm of possibility. Poverty in the otherhand, not so much. Him wanting his creation destitute or being indifferent to it is not really supported in Scripture. I'd find it very hard to maintain my faith in him and his promised "paradise" if he did.

Truth · Aug 5, 2018

amadeus said:
It is an interesting thought, one which never occurred to me. Thank you for sharing. One problem with it is that when he left Jesus he had been given a specific instruction to divest himself of all material goods and give the proceeds to the poor. After his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus he goes on to write many things which we see in the NT. It would seem that somewhere among the personal histories and testimonies that we see in his own writings and/or in the book of Acts some mention that he was once a very rich man and now he was only a humble tent maker.

Even at the encounter on the road to Damascus, would not Jesus have said something about the requirement previously put of the rich ruler? Since he did not, why wouldn't He have done so?

If you can draw a definite connection I would really like to hear it. Thank you for your kind words.

No definite connection, as I said just speculation, one thought, Jesus invited the rich ruler to follow Him, but on the road to Damascus Jesus in essence Choose Paul and Paul made the right choice! I was blinded but know I see!

VictoryinJesus · Aug 5, 2018

Dcopymope said:
Poverty in the otherhand, not so much. Him wanting his creation destitute or being indifferent to it is not really supported in Scripture. I'd find it very hard to maintain my faith in him and his promised "paradise" if he did.

Ezekiel 17:24
[24] And all the trees of the field shall know that I the Lord have brought down the high tree, have exalted the low tree, have dried up the green tree, and have made the dry tree to flourish: I the Lord have spoken and have done it .

Ezekiel 20:47-49
[47] And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the Lord ; Thus saith the Lord God ; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein. [48] And all flesh shall see that I the Lord have kindled it: it shall not be quenched. [49] Then said I, Ah Lord God ! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

Luke 23:31-32
[31] For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? [32] And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.

Hebrews 5:8
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

2 Corinthians 11:4-7
[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him . [5] For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles. [6] But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things. [7] Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?

What is the model?

Triumph1300 · Aug 5, 2018

Dcopymope said:
Well it was God that cursed the ground we stand on

When Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life,” what he meant was that he had come to reverse this curse.

“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22).

Jesus came to bear “our sins in his body on the tree that we might live to righteousness” (1 Peter 2:24).

“The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord” (Romans 6:23).

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If you believe it is God's will that you live in poverty and sickness=you got it!

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior

Enoch111

Well-Known Member

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior

Heart2Soul

Spiritual Warrior

amadeus

Well-Known Member

Dcopymope

Well-Known Member

Truth

Well-Known Member

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member

Triumph1300

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