Testing the Spirits

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JesusIsFaithful

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My whole time here is His, but giving it back to Him at times means asking Him for help:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8


And so I do as I must daily as needed.

"Rejoice evermore.
Pray without ceasing." I Thess 5:16-17


Over the years I have changed or have had changed many things that I believed and many things that I had been doing. This is the work of God in me. He is not finished with me yet... but I am 74 and my time left is likely much less than that which is already past. When we close our heart up to anything not already tightly embraced, we block God Himself. The scripture contains all that we need, but without His direction we find ourselves back at Ecc 12:12.

You reject things that I say and things that I do because they offend your logic as it applies to the Bible. His voice really is heard b y His sheep. I do hear Him. Not everyone knows what that means.

May God richly bless you as you open your heart to Him and grows as He would have you grow.

Give God the glory!

What you say as you apply the scripture does not teach receiving the Holy Spirit again nor at any time apart from salvation whereas the scripture I had used and had applied does expose what you say as being works of darkness.

The fact that you CAN NOT prove what is evil in regards to testing the spirits does leave you as found wanting.

What you teach opens the gateway wide for spirits of the antichrist to come in whereas the indwelling Holy Spirit would be still pointing the saved believer in relating to God the Father by the only way provided.. thru the Son.
 
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amadeus

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What you say as you apply the scripture does not teach receiving the Holy Spirit again nor at any time apart from salvation whereas the scripture I had used and had applied does expose what you say as being works of darkness.

The scripture my friend without the quickening of it in a person by the Holy Spirit is dead. Lots of dead men around claiming to have Life, but that is what is called delusion, delusion received because the first love is missing. Those who are deluded are walking blind although they do not know it. That is the nature of delusion. This is why a return to the lowest room is necessary on a regular basis:

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:15

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 2:10-11

The fact that you CAN NOT prove what is evil in regards to testing the spirits does leave you as found wanting.

Prove? Since when do we live by proof rather than by faith?

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

There is proof, but it is what is written in a man's heart by God through the Holy Spirit, not what he can derive from Bible study and the reasoning of men. How can a person who has the proof in his heart transfer it to another? He cannot unless the receiving heart is open and God is in charge of the transfer.

What you teach opens the gateway wide for spirits of the antichrist to come in whereas the indwelling Holy Spirit would be still pointing the saved believer in relating to God the Father by the only way provided.. thru the Son.
All of us must open our hearts to God, but as you say sometimes people open themselves up to the wrong spirits. How can an unlearned person know to do the right thing in the right way? Simply by asking of God to help him put first things first:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened." Matt 7:7-8


And what are the first things?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

Ah but enough of this. I have already engaged you more than I intended. I leave you for now.
Give God the glory!
 

JesusIsFaithful

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The scripture my friend without the quickening of it in a person by the Holy Spirit is dead. Lots of dead men around claiming to have Life, but that is what is called delusion, delusion received because the first love is missing. Those who are deluded are walking blind although they do not know it. That is the nature of delusion. This is why a return to the lowest room is necessary on a regular basis:

Ah but enough of this. I have already engaged you more than I intended. I leave you for now.

For the readers out there; ( since he is done engaging me on this topic...) in response to the vain attempt to defend apostasy by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit for a sign apart from salvation ....

...just because you do not feel a supernatural spirit coming over you after reading the scripture for this "quickening", which he is implying as a supernatural phenomenon, I say that quickening by the Holy Spirit is just the Holy Spirit enabling you in understanding & thus receiving His written words in the scripture.

The delusion my fellow but errant brother is misapplying from is mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter as below;

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.....

Think new age mentality of them opening themselves up to receiving spirits after a sign in hypocrisy when the real Holy Spirit is in you, Whom God will permit that strong delusion to occur ( He is still in those believers, but the restraining power is let go for why they are receiving those physical signs of confusion, including tongues which never comes with interpretation when it is vain and profane babbling nonsense )....

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This damnation is, of course, being left behind as castaways in becoming vessels unto dishonor as disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper in His House only to be resurrected at a later time at the end of the great tribulation.

To expose this iniquity as seeking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation, Paul reminds them when they had received Him and the truth which was by the calling of the gospel by believing in Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So by disregarding the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as described in the 3rd chapter by believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues without interpretation or any other sensational signs in the flesh that is of confusion, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur.

Only God can peradventure to deliver such a one from this snare of the devil, but as you can see by our brother, amadeus, he does seem to be going with the flow of whatever spirit falls over him as thinking that is the Holy Spirit even though His words says that God is not the author of confusion whereby many believers fall backwards and down in confusion. Believers, like amadeus, who claim others are blind and confused and thus dead, are the ones that are blind and confused, but thanks to the Lord, not dead since He is faithful and still abides in them, regardless of how they are grieving the Spirit.

So don't think you are missing out on anything by those who preach another drink of the One Spirit by which many fall down by; God can hear your normal prayers just fine and the Father knows everything before you ask Him ( Matthew 6:7-8 ) for why there is NO NEED for God's gift of tongues for speaking unto the people in their native tongue, to stop all of a sudden and turn that tongue around for the Holy Spirit to use it as a form of prayer in a secret language to God. Talk about confusion which God is not the author of.

Jesus Christ is in you as promised as you are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ; not by a sign of tongues and not by any other sign for how we are identified as His to one another, but by our faith in Jesus Christ is what unifies us.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.......26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So forget the spectacular.. forget those weird signs and lying wonders of confusion...don't chase after them, but continue to rest in Jesus Christ that you are Spirit-filled with no need of refilling because that is part of our testimony that we are saved so we can say that Jesus Christ IS our Saviour, the Good News to man.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Any other testimony of a refilling is a testimony against our salvation as testified above in Matthew 9:17.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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I know you are done conversing with me and all, brother, but just for my information and maybe everybody else's; do you need to read the posts on the forum in large print or can you read those posts in regular size print?

Like this size here?


If not then I shall compensate and go to this print size you have been regularly using if not larger.
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Speaking in tongues, one maybe talking you native English but one does not understand what is truly being said, but another does understand what is being said and will explain what was said to another or others and they will pick up on it and all will be of an understanding, now that is the only way that I see it from, but just babbling nonsense is a joke to me.

I would think that if one was touched and fell down as some do that such is not a saved person.
A mates guru did such to me and the guru was angered that I did not fall down.
I informed him that I was Born Again, but that I know that him and my mate are not truly Born Again, because they have much evil and hate in there heart. but I did not say that to them.
Before all this and being the first time that I had met this guru, he asked what part of the Bible do I like most, I was thinking like you have to be joking, that's a card trick that only Satan plays.
Well after the hands on thing did not go as he expected and all, he went off his rocker and stormed of rude as. because he knew that he could not fool me.
They claim to be able to be able to Save people and make them born again by you repeating after them the words they say and bingo they have just got another feather in there hat reward of saving another.

No man Saved me but Jesus Christ him self and it was much like as with Saul and the lights went on with a bang, now I knew Jesus and that he was truly the Christ 100 % and that nothing will change that.

As for testing the Spirits, well it has to be of the Holy Spirit and when one has such then it comes across that you just know if it's not the Holy Spirit, if you feel not so sure go to the Bible and the answer will come.
 
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amadeus

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I know you are done conversing with me and all, brother, but just for my information and maybe everybody else's; do you need to read the posts on the forum in large print or can you read those posts in regular size print?

Like this size here?


If not then I shall compensate and go to this print size you have been regularly using if not larger.
I have trouble focusing and concentrating for long if the font is too small. Thank you for inquiring.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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Speaking in tongues, one maybe talking you native English but one does not understand what is truly being said, but another does understand what is being said and will explain what was said to another or others and they will pick up on it and all will be of an understanding, now that is the only way that I see it from, but just babbling nonsense is a joke to me.

I would think that if one was touched and fell down as some do that such is not a saved person.
A mates guru did such to me and the guru was angered that I did not fall down.
I informed him that I was Born Again, but that I know that him and my mate are not truly Born Again, because they have much evil and hate in there heart. but I did not say that to them.

I believe that you had thought that, but I also believe the reason you did not say that was because the Lord prevented you from saying that which is not true, because a born again believer can fall down if they "suffer a thief to break thru" of Luke 12:38-40 as He has warned believers about taking heed to His words so that they would not fall down ( Matthew 7:24-27 ) as they can claim all those "wonderful works of God" in their movements of the "Spirit" Matthew 7:21-23 as that iniquity is coming to God the Father in worship or prayer by way of the Holy Spirit rather than by the only way of the Son ( John 5:22-23 & Matthew 7:13-14 & Luke 13:24 & John 14:6 & John 10:1 & John 10:7 )

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-15 we see Paul mentioning a falling away from the faith as happening first before that event of that son of perdition being revealed, in verse 3. Paul goes on to talk about both events as something the Lord will deal with but He will deal with the falling away first for why Peter said that God will judge His House first as He will keep the souls of those saints left behind to suffer in the bed of the great tribulation ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ). Paul goes back to how the son of perdition shall be revealed in his time in verses 4-6, and then goes back to the iniquity that will cause the falling away from the faith to happen first in verse 7 that will lead up to that event of the son of perdition in the great tribulation in verse 8. Then Paul expounds more on that iniquity that will cause the falling away from the faith more as it was happening in his day in verses 9-12. Then to stand against that iniquity by exposing it by reminding saved believers of the traditions taught of us as to when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth and that was at the calling of the gospel in verses 13-15.

To prove that they are saved believer even when falling down even more so, Paul goes on in the 2 Thessalonians 3:1-15 as addressing that we be delivered from wicked and unreasonable man that have not faith that not walk after the traditions taught of us but are disorderly as they are in falling down in confusion BUT yet we are commanded to withdraw from them, and have no company with them in verses 1-7, but not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers in verses 14-15 as they are still brothers even though they have fallen away.

Since 1 Timothy 4:1-2 prophesied that some shall fall away from the faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, and why John said for believers not to believe every spirit but test them in 1 John 4:1-6, then that is why I believe the Holy Spirit in you prevented you from saying something untrue about those who fall down or operate in such apostasy as not born again believers.

Before all this and being the first time that I had met this guru, he asked what part of the Bible do I like most, I was thinking like you have to be joking, that's a card trick that only Satan plays.
Well after the hands on thing did not go as he expected and all, he went off his rocker and stormed of rude as. because he knew that he could not fool me.
They claim to be able to be able to Save people and make them born again by you repeating after them the words they say and bingo they have just got another feather in there hat reward of saving another.

No man Saved me but Jesus Christ him self and it was much like as with Saul and the lights went on with a bang, now I knew Jesus and that he was truly the Christ 100 % and that nothing will change that.

As for testing the Spirits, well it has to be of the Holy Spirit and when one has such then it comes across that you just know if it's not the Holy Spirit, if you feel not so sure go to the Bible and the answer will come.

One can also go before that throne of grace for help in finding the answers in testing the Spirit in the Bible too.

Thank you for sharing. I can see the Lord working in your life to not fall for any apostate movements of confusions that God is not the author of.
 
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Nancy

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Thank you for sharing. If the first video in the OP was indeed Paul Washer, then it goes to show why we should prove everything by Him by the scripture. It does sound like him, but I am hard of hearing, and so I cannot confirm your whether or not the audio is Paul Washer. If you know that it is for sure Paul Washer, then his words are of error because for His disciples to seek a manifestation like that in falling over to get that infusion or filling in order to have power to bear witness in the outreach minstry, then by the time they get up to speak, their audience would be gone. They wuld keep on walking.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

And if any one coming off teh streets saw the believers falling down the way they were, how can they not deem the whole church as "crazy" too?

Someone once said that a cult is someone that says nine truths and says one lie. To me, when any one puts the focus on anything else rather than the Son, then they are no longer being a disciples of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, in testifying of Him in seeking His glory, but the glory of another.

The would be akin to what antichrist means; "instead of Christ" as in "instead of the Son" since Jesus is the Christ. Denying Him in this way is evil itself as His words does declare this to be a judgment over every saved believer in the the only way to honor the Father by; by only honoring the Son.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14 He shall glorify me:

To act as if they do not have power of the Holy Spirit to minister is to deny what was given at their salvation and thus departing from faith in Jesus Christ.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

A lot of believer will refer to the Book of Acts to verses pulled out of context to prove that His disciples were filled with the Holy Ghost before they spoke, but no way is what happening in the video happened in the Book of Acts because as I said, they'd be walking on by.

Luke's purpose for mentioning in Acts for when any of His disciples were "filled" with the Spirit was to signify by how they were speaking or doing rather than leaving readers to wonder if it was something of their own volition and will power to testify that they were led by the Spirit in speaking and in doing the things they were doing.

Nowhere in the N.T. does it teach a believer that they need to seek a continual filling of the Spirit and for churches to have catchers. They misapply Ephesians 5:18 when be filled with the Spirit was opposing being drunk with wine wherein there is excess. That is to mean remain sober as in self control which the fruit of the Spirit is temperance.

In no other scripture is the call to be sober requires an infusion of the Holy Spirit. Believers can only get drunk when they drink wine in excess.

Thanks again for sharing the video and your comments.

Good post JIF. "...they'd be walking on by." <---- I would be a runnin on by!
 

Nancy

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@amadeus I love you my brother, as well as others on here that I do not agree in certain areas. I must say though-I am with JIF on this one. I tend to shy away from this kind of thing because I DO love you all and HATE controversy in all it's forms...especially with those I love, lol...okay-I'm a coward :oops: ...
Maybe coming from a very charismatic and Pentecostal, slaying in the Spirit, all speaking at once in "tongues" kind of Church when I was first saved in 1992 has brought me to where my belief lies. I never spoke in tongues, I faked it as I did not want to seem as if I was not saved...stayed there a little over a year, even though I never did "fit in" eventually found another Church-Assembly of God-and everything seemed like a breath of fresh air to me there. Several of my brothers and sisters and my best friend were still attending the other Church. This is what caused me to look further into the tongues issue. So, I can only say, like you, that I needed to "know in my knower" and we can only do that individually, believing in the guidance and wisdom of our Great God's Holy Spirit.

Heartfelt Love In Christ my kind brother :)
-nancy
 

amadeus

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@amadeus I love you my brother, as well as others on here that I do not agree in certain areas. I must say though-I am with JIF on this one. I tend to shy away from this kind of thing because I DO love you all and HATE controversy in all it's forms...especially with those I love, lol...okay-I'm a coward :oops:


I 've been there with what I might call the cowardice thing, but over the years God has helped me with that. I try not to push people, but neither do I hesitate to speak when I believe that God is in it. He often simply gives me the words to reply. Other times I will search for answers before replying. Sometimes not having something I will remain silent. I know that my answers are not always the best answer or even an acceptable answer for another person, but I must stand on where I am at the moment in Him. He will give the increase when and if it needed. We need to keep on talking to Him and paying attention and obeying His voice.

Maybe coming from a very charismatic and Pentecostal, slaying in the Spirit, all speaking at once in "tongues" kind of Church when I was first saved in 1992 has brought me to where my belief lies.

I have been in more than one such church group. In time I came to question myself because I witnessed some questionable [to me] things. I could not fix anyone else who might be wrong. What I did do was in regard to me where I had the control. Every time I felt a need or desire yearning to yield to the Spirit and dance or run or shout, I moved deeply into Jesus name and never allowed myself to act or react until I was assured that what was coming was from God. Sometimes I would end up sitting quietly in my seat simply talking to God while others did their thing [no judgment from me regarding the cause or source of their actions], but other times I was given to know that it was of God and I let go. That happened many years ago and no matter anyone else around me it doing, I am striving to stay always of the Lord's side doing what He would have me to do. I do not seek to be moved, but I also while IN His name do not refuse to be moved.

I never spoke in tongues, I faked it as I did not want to seem as if I was not saved...stayed there a little over a year, even though I never did "fit in" eventually found another Church-Assembly of God-and everything seemed like a breath of fresh air to me there. Several of my brothers and sisters and my best friend were still attending the other Church. This is what caused me to look further into the tongues issue. So, I can only say, like you, that I needed to "know in my knower" and we can only do that individually, believing in the guidance and wisdom of our Great God's Holy Spirit.
Heartfelt Love In Christ my kind brother :)
-nancy
I really believe that too many people in similar situations do fake it in order to be more fully accepted in the group. Sometimes I know when a person is faking, but never I have been quick to expose what I though I knew. Even that should be handled by God. If He wants to use me, He will let me that as well. On this point I also staying touch with God, IN His name, so I would not remain silent when it really was time to be speaking, but speak when it was time to speak.

I have never faked a blessing or a move from God on me in this way, but the temptation has certainly been upon me to do so in order to effectively announce to those about me, "Look at me, I am a special person in God". When I have felt that spirit, which is certainly NOT the Holy Spirit, I've reached out for the Holy Spirit so that if anything that occurred would not be of my carnality nor for my own glory.

Bless you Sister. Follow what God puts in you, rather than what any man says unless you are certain it is really from God to you.
 

Nancy

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I 've been there with what I might call the cowardice thing, but over the years God has helped me with that. I try not to push people, but neither do I hesitate to speak when I believe that God is in it. He often simply gives me the words to reply. Other times I will search for answers before replying. Sometimes not having something I will remain silent. I know that my answers are not always the best answer or even an acceptable answer for another person, but I must stand on where I am at the moment in Him. He will give the increase when and if it needed. We need to keep on talking to Him and paying attention and obeying His voice.

I have been in more than one such church group. In time I came to question myself because I witnessed some questionable [to me] things. I could not fix anyone else who might be wrong. What I did do was in regard to me where I had the control. Every time I felt a need or desire yearning to yield to the Spirit and dance or run or shout, I moved deeply into Jesus name and never allowed myself to act or react until I was assured that what was coming was from God. Sometimes I would end up sitting quietly in my seat simply talking to God while others did their thing [no judgment from me regarding the cause or source of their actions], but other times I was given to know that it was of God and I let go. That happened many years ago and no matter anyone else around me it doing, I am striving to stay always of the Lord's side doing what He would have me to do. I do not seek to be moved, but I also while IN His name do not refuse to be moved.


I really believe that too many people in similar situations do fake it in order to be more fully accepted in the group. Sometimes I know when a person is faking, but never I have been quick to expose what I though I knew. Even that should be handled by God. If He wants to use me, He will let me that as well. On this point I also staying touch with God, IN His name, so I would not remain silent when it really was time to be speaking, but speak when it was time to speak.

I have never faked a blessing or a move from God on me in this way, but the temptation has certainly been upon me to do so in order to effectively announce to those about me, "Look at me, I am a special person in God". When I have felt that spirit, which is certainly NOT the Holy Spirit, I've reached out for the Holy Spirit so that if anything that occurred would not be of my carnality nor for my own glory.

Bless you Sister. Follow what God puts in you, rather than what any man says unless you are certain it is really from God to you.

"Bless you Sister. Follow what God puts in you, rather than what any man says unless you are certain it is really from God to you." <---Amen Amadeus ♥
Just to be clear-I fake nothing at all now :) ♥ U !
 
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amadeus

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"Bless you Sister. Follow what God puts in you, rather than what any man says unless you are certain it is really from God to you." <---Amen Amadeus ♥
Just to be clear-I fake nothing at all now
:) ♥ U !
Give God the glory!
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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The only way God the Father is glorified is through His Son and so if you glorify God the Father by anything else, like by the "blessed Trinity" or even by glorifying the Holy Spirit as some seek the glory of those movements of the Spirit to entice others to chase after for, then you are no longer glorifying God the Father; John 5:22-23 & John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-11
 
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Frank Lee

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Jesusisfaithful is true but the person bearing this moniker is false. He's a bomb thrower spreading dissention and calling it truth.

After reading his posts I smell denominational religion very strongly. Taught the wrong things they head out to set God fearing Christians straight. I will relieve myself of him with the simple push of the ignore button. Life is wayyy too short to engage the wind in fruitless wrestling. I know the truth and can't be converted to dead denominationalism.

It's normal not to agree with everyone but he agrees with NO ONE. That's strange. Beware of the self proclaimed crusader, especially those denying God's gifts and Holy Spirit baptism.


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