AN OFT OVERLOOKED LESSON FROM JACOB'S LADDER

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Phoneman777

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Hi Brother Phoneman777. I reckon I shouldn't get into this, but you've stoked my interest. You have as a part of your signature I suppose the scripture "He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a LIAR and the truth is not in him.".
Just flat out, do you trust the revealed words of Jesus to Paul as containing those commandments to the nth degree? If we can proceed, I may ask what commandments you think these to be. Thanks.

Blessings in Christ Jesus. :)
Trust them completely. I agree with Paul that we're saved by grace through faith, not works. What Christians who love sin refuse to acknowledge is what the Bible teaches about works being the evidence that salvation has been obtained, and the absence of works is the evidence that it is not, because no one can keep God's commandments unless Jesus resides in his heart and gives him the power to do so, which obedience is credited to Jesus, not the "unprofitable servant" in whose heart Jesus resides.

As to what law Revelation 12:17 refers, it is the law God wrote with His own finger in stone to show the eternal nature of them - it cannot be the Mosaic law of ceremonies and sacrifices which "were shadows of things to come" because Jesus, the One from Whom the shadows originate, has come.
 

Phoneman777

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Phoneman, it is not necessary to judge so quickly. There are factors which you are not aware of the details of which I will spare you.
In profession and lip service there is much piety yet when it comes to transparency and inconvenience the true colours are shown.
"You will read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and not find a single verse that says, "Thou shalt be loved". However, all through the Bible you will find where it says "Thou shalt do the loving". - Pastor Dr. C. D. Brooks
 

Phoneman777

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I see no institution surviving the mark of the beast except Babylon. Only those who surrender through convenience or conscience will be permitted to operate openly. God's people at that time I agree will be those who choose to keep God's commandments through faith in Jesus, but will have to cease to be identified with their church. We'll be on our own then, just as in some parts of the world where the churches are not what they ought to be and have already surrendered to the world, being alone, or with a small group of like minded individuals, becomes the only option.
If only Christians could understand that since those who DO NOT GET the Mark of the Beast are described as commandment keepter", it just stands to reason that those who take the Mark are breaking them.
 

quietthinker

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"You will read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation and not find a single verse that says, "Thou shalt be loved". However, all through the Bible you will find where it says "Thou shalt do the loving". - Pastor Dr. C. D. Brooks
Does one still turn up when one travels two hours one way to hear sermons that are as dry as the hills of the Sahara or when one is told to shut up after an open invitation for people to share their views?
When attempting to address the sermon afterwards is like like pushing a soft do do up hill with a sharp stick. If folk feel comfortable in their space where sin is sanctioned and feel rattled when I question. If they have no interest in leaving it behind and present a fierce countenance. When attempts to communicate with the minister by writing is ignored, is there any reason to frequent the assembly?
 

larry2

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no one can keep God's commandments unless Jesus resides in his heart and gives him the power to do so, which obedience is credited to Jesus, not the "unprofitable servant" in whose heart Jesus resides.

As to what law Revelation 12:17 refers, it is the law God wrote with His own finger in stone to show the eternal nature of them
Thanks so much for your reply Brother Phoneman. I reckon then considering your above reply, what anything of the ministration of death engraven in tablets of stone would be an acceptable sacrifice on our part. 2 Cor 3:7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones . . .

In Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? To me this is saying that our faith is lacking, and we can suffer consequence of missing out on having God’s best for us as He would have us to be in His perfect will. Not only that, our testimony doesn’t stand the test by fire, and in Jn 15:6 we read: If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men (Not God) gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

What law should we observe if any? Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Heb 4:16, Even in reaching out to our Father when in time of need we’re to go boldly. Today in many churches there is a practice of fasting to obtain answers to prayer, and back in Isa 58:4 God says ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Isa 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul?

No! The perfect fast is to love your neighbor as yourself, and Isa 58:6 goes on to say what that is. Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

Isa 58:7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

God bless you in Jesus’ name.
 

Phoneman777

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Does one still turn up when one travels two hours one way to hear sermons that are as dry as the hills of the Sahara or when one is told to shut up after an open invitation for people to share their views?
When attempting to address the sermon afterwards is like like pushing a soft do do up hill with a sharp stick. If folk feel comfortable in their space where sin is sanctioned and feel rattled when I question. If they have no interest in leaving it behind and present a fierce countenance. When attempts to communicate with the minister by writing is ignored, is there any reason to frequent the assembly?
Yes, if the dry sermons are Scripturally sound and there are no other places available in which to attend equally sound sermon presentations - in which the effectual, fervent prayer of a righteous man will avail much with regard to Biblical reform of the leadership.
 

Phoneman777

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I see no institution surviving the mark of the beast except Babylon. Only those who surrender through convenience or conscience will be permitted to operate openly. God's people at that time I agree will be those who choose to keep God's commandments through faith in Jesus, but will have to cease to be identified with their church. We'll be on our own then, just as in some parts of the world where the churches are not what they ought to be and have already surrendered to the world, being alone, or with a small group of like minded individuals, becomes the only option.
God's remnant church is recognized as bearing resemblance to that first century church founded by Christ and His example of true obedient, self-sacrificing love for God, His Word, and others. Find them and you have found His remnant.
 

quietthinker

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God's remnant church is recognized as bearing resemblance to that first century church founded by Christ and His example of true obedient, self-sacrificing love for God, His Word, and others. Find them and you have found His remnant.
I'm persuaded that God's remnant Church does not bear a name recognisable in the system of denominations. All are drinking the wine of Babylon with some drinking more than others.
 
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Phoneman777

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I'm persuaded that God's remnant Church does not bear a name recognisable in the system of denominations. All are drinking the wine of Babylon with some drinking more than others.
Yes, but the wheat and tares are said will grow together. Just strive to be counted among the wheat.
 
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brakelite

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Does one still turn up when one travels two hours one way to hear sermons that are as dry as the hills of the Sahara or when one is told to shut up after an open invitation for people to share their views?
When attempting to address the sermon afterwards is like like pushing a soft do do up hill with a sharp stick. If folk feel comfortable in their space where sin is sanctioned and feel rattled when I question. If they have no interest in leaving it behind and present a fierce countenance. When attempts to communicate with the minister by writing is ignored, is there any reason to frequent the assembly?
No, not really. I think that when that stage is arrived at, it's time to dust off. But that is hard, because we love those people. And not all in the congregation are so blinded by the apathy and luke-warmness. In areas where there are few choices, staying at home sometimes is a matter of self-preservation.
 
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quietthinker

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No, not really. I think that when that stage is arrived at, it's time to dust off. But that is hard, because we love those people. And not all in the congregation are so blinded by the apathy and luke-warmness. In areas where there are few choices, staying at home sometimes is a matter of self-preservation.

Oh how I long for the company of those whose hearts are sold for integrity, how I long to be able to bounce my thoughts off another believer face to face and not be ignored or isolated.

These events for me are not a new experience although it did take me by surprise considering the denomination. Some years earlier in a different denomination conflict also arose, not because I sought it but again because I spoke up also answering to a personal invite to come up to the rostrum and share my thoughts.

Here are some recollections and thoughts from that time.

SOUTH MELBOURNE

The pressure’s on, don’t come back here
cold shoulders flying spittle
you unrepentant devils child
my heart, it’s oh so brittle

Pickets placed, police are called
just get him out of here
and any one that interacts
the discipline they fear

That precious pearl that once was held
aloft for all to see
down it was cast and painted glass
was treasured more than He

Forgive them Lord, those final words
before he fell asleep
while in the crowd a watching man
would lead the future sheep

Clear, insightful, focus sharp
with passion now he meets us
there’s only one consuming urge
to introduce His Jesus

Let’s listen well, unplug our ears
it’s worth a second look
this understated gift we’re given
revealed within the book.
 
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brakelite

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I am now retired and living with my daughter and son in law. Both teach in one of our colleges, my son in law the principal. He is a nerd. Both in academia and Bible. Love our discussions, even better when visitors come. Sorry you are missing that.
 
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TheHolyBookEnds

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No it is based on living faith which produces good works (which is Christ Jesus working in us who continue to believe; Ephesians 2:8-10). James 2.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.​

We know it says "Blessed are they that do his commandments" (as God promised, Psalms 12:6-7, etc), from the following texts that John is citing from:

Psalms 118:19 Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:

Isaiah 26:2 Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in.

Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalms 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Psalms 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.​

Angels go in and out of those gates:

Psalms 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.​

Beyond this, the historical evidence says the same:

""... Blessed are they who do his commandments ..."

046
Cursives: MAJORITY - Andreas and 046 Mss.
Old Latin: gig
Syr: philox, harc
Cop: bo
Arm ..."
- A Closer Look at the Early Manuscripts & the AV, by Jack Moorman, page 153
"... (so-called) Church Fathers:

Tertullian, On Modesty (I 4:96),
Cyprian, Treatises (I 5:525) ..."
- Early Church Fathers and the Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 61

"... Lamsa's 1936 translation of the Syriac Peshitta, ... It is also so quoted by several church Fathers, including Tertullian 220, Cryprian 258, Tyconius 380 A.D., Andrew, Beatus and Arethas. ...

... [Bibles that read the same] This includes Tyndale 1525, Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew's Bible 1549, the Bishop's Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587 - " Blessed are they, that doe his commandments", The Beza New Testament 1599 and the 1611 King James Holy Bible.

After 1611 it continued to be the reading in The Bill Bible 1671, Whiston's Primitive N.T. 1745, John Wesley's 1755 translation, Worsley Version 1770, The Clarke N.T. 1795, the Newcome N.T. 1796, The Thompson Bible 1808, The Improved N.T. 1809, The Revised Translation 1815, The Thompson N.T. 1816, The Wakefield N.T. 1820, The Kneeland N.T. 1823, The Dickinson N.T. 1833, Webster's 1833 version, Living Oracles 1835, The New Covenant N.T. 1836, The Pickering N.T. 1840, The Hammond N.T. 1845, The Hussey N.T. 1845, The Morgan N.T. 1848, the Etheridge Translation 1849 and Murdock's Translation of the Syriac 1851, The Commonly Received Version 1851, The Boothroyd Bible 1853, The Sawyer N.T. 1858, The Revised New Testament 1862, The Emphatic Diaglott Bible 1865, The Smith Bible 1876, The Dillard N.T. 1885, and the Aramaic Bible in Plain English - "Blessings to those who ARE DOING his Commandments."

It is also the reading of Youngs literal 1898, the NKJV 1982, the KJV 21st Century Version 1994, Green's Modern KJV 2000, The Word of Yah Bible 1993, the Worldwide English New Testament 1998, The Koster Scriptures 1998, the Interlinear Greek New Testament 1997 (Larry Pierce), the Lawrie Translation of 1998, Last Days Bible 1999, God's First Truth 1999, The Tomson N.T. 2002, Apostolic Bible Polyglot Greek 2003, the Heritage Bible of 2003, Green's Literal 2005, Robinson-Pierpoint Byzantine Greek New Testament, the Third Millennium Bible 1998, A Conservative Version 2005, Complete Apostles Bible 2005, The Pickering N.T. 2005, The Revised Geneva Bible 2005, Bond Slave Version 2009, the English Majority Text Version of 2009 by Paul Esposito, the Holy Scriptures Jubilee Bible of 2010, the Online Linear of 2009 by Andre de Mol, Holy Scriptures VW Edition 2010, The Far Above All Translation 2011, the Natural Israelite Bible of 2012 - "Blessed are those who do His commandments.", Hebraic Roots Bible 2012, World English Bible 2012, The English Majority Text N.T. 2013, The Aramaic Plain English Bible 2013, the Hebrew Names Version 2014, The Modern Literal N.T. 2014 and The Holy Bible, Modern English Version 2014 - "Blessed are those who DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city." and the New Matthew Bible 2016." - http://brandplucked.webs.com/revelation2214do.htm

Every work (good or evil) is brought into the judgment:

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man (Adam).

Ecclesiastes 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.​

As it is written:

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.​

Smoking is self-murder. All those who smoke (Christian or not). Repent, while there is still time and grace.

We are warned:

Isaiah 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.​

I do not speak of those who actually believe to the saving of their souls (persons) (Hebrews 10:39), but those who cease to believe after believing.

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Mark 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

Matthew 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Mark 4:19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.​

Many more texts and examples on this. I have been through the so-called OSAS texts. Read them carefully, please, look for the modifiers.
I for one appreciate this wonderful, Biblical exegesis. The truth is so covered over with layer upon layer of error that it confirms why God said, "Ye shall seek Me, and shall find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."
Now brother, they are doing what they did to Huss, and others, even now. They *burn* what they cannot refute openly (and soon us too). What do I mean? Go back to the post and try to find it. They work in secret, and in darkness, and say: "... Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?"
 
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Phoneman777

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Now brother, they are doing what they did to Huss, and others, even now. They *burn* what they cannot refute openly (and soon us too). What do I mean? Go back to the post and try to find it. They work in secret, and in darkness, and say: "... Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?"
One abomination after the next will follow, until the final abomination when they will with full knowledge of of the truth turn from it and worship their beloved Sun god in the East.
 

GodsGrace

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As Jacob's head lay resting on a hard stone rock of a pillow, his mind was filled with what is perhaps one of the most softest, sweetest, tenderest pictures of the Savior in the OT: that celestial Ladder bridging the gap between a hopeless, sinful, fallen human race and their holy, divine Creator God, upon which the angels ascended and descended. He awoke from his sleep and said of the spot where he'd dreamt, "This is none other but the house of God and this is the gate of heaven."

The "house of God" is the "gate of heaven". Both are symbols of the church which Jesus built Himself and upon Himself as our Lord and Savoir Jesus Christ - the only name given among men whereby we must be saved.

Now, Jesus said when you're looking for a gate, make sure to "enter ye in at the strait gate". Don't enter in the wide, broad gate where the crowd rushes in - the church that teaches you can have Jesus and keep your sin too. The liquor drinker can keep his bottle. The adulterer can keep his side woman. The pornographer can keep his vile habit. The cigarette smoker can keep his tobacco. The thief may keep on stealing. The liar may keep on denying the truth. The idolater may keep his debasing but tantalizing entertainment - all that leads to destruction.

No, Jesus said enter ye in at the "strait gate". "Strait" means "hard, difficult, austere, and - the most classic definition of the word - strict. Find a strict church - a church that teaches standards. Find a church that teaches sanctification. Find a church that teaches you've got to obey God's commandments because "there shall in no wise enter into (heaven) any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." That church is where Jesus awaits as both our Savior Who grants us pardon for sin and our Lord Who grants us power to obey Him. Thank you Jesus, for without You heaven would forever be beyond our reach.
I'm confused as to why you haven't been in agreement with me...
But no matter, the above is 100%.
Thanks for a good O.P. Now let's watch it be disceminated...
(I just got here).
 

GodsGrace

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If unrepentant and unceasing, yes.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


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Wow. We go from hyper grace, easy believism --- Just believe in Jesus and you can do what you want, live how you want (I've heard this in sermons, I could find some on youtube if you wish) and you'll still be saved...

TO

Smoking can make you LOSE YOUR SALVATION.

I give up.
 
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Phoneman777

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a counterfeit East to occlude the real East, imo. interesting
A "type" and "antitype". Amazing how the issues of the Old Testament are the same old tired issues that will exist just before Jesus comes. It all boils down to one word: who's authority do we acknowledge, God or Satan.