“I will shew thee my faith by my works.“

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H. Richard

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The book of (James) is often used to put believers under law, but I am not one of them. I believe (James 1:1). James is clear in (2:23) that the offering of Isaac was the fulfillment of the righteousness that was imputed to Abraham when he believed God. (Gen. 15:6)

The exact same is true with Rahab also. (James 2:25) She was a believer first. (Joshua 2:9) She then hid the spies as a result. (2:1-24) Faith first, then works. There is no error here.

Stranger

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A fulfillment??????? Either Abraham was righteous before God when God said he was in Gen 15 or he wasn't until you and James say he was. I will believe God said he was BEFORE he had done any works Gen 15. just as Paul said he was. It is amazing how the religious will twist the scriptures to say what they want them to say.

Come on Stranger you should know what you are doing.
 
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Stranger

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A fulfillment??????? Either Abraham was righteous before God when God said he was in Gen 15 or he wasn't until you and James say he was. I will believe God said he was BEFORE he had done any works Gen 15. just as Paul said he was. It is amazing how the religious will twist the scriptures to say what they want them to say.

Come on Stranger you should know what you are doing.

(James 2:23) "And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness...." James doesn't say that righteousness was not imputed to Abraham in (Gen. 15). He says that Abrahams offering of Isaac was a fulfillment of that.

You are intentionally trying to complicate the issue when it is not complicated at all. Paul and James are talking about different aspects of salvation. This is why different periods of time are addressed. Paul speaks to ones initial salvation before God. James is speaking of ones walk of salvation as seen before men. Thus, as I showed you already, James does not choose the time when Rahab was first saved. He chooses the time when, because she was saved, she did what she did.

Yes, I know what I am doing. And what you are doing is very dangerous. Your are declaring a book of the Bible as not of God.

Stranger
 
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aspen

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Well, Luther sure didn’t like the book of James.....
It does tend to fly in the face of the solas
 

Enoch111

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Well, Luther sure didn’t like the book of James.....
Luther had many idiosyncrasies. But James was considered to be Scripture long before Luther. And eventually Luther did accept it as Scripture. Irenaeus apparently referred to it in the 2nd or 3rd century.
It does tend to fly in the face of the solas
Only it is is misinterpreted. The Bible never contradicts itself, therefore it is up to the reader to harmonize James with Paul.
 
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Enoch111

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Or could we say it is up to the Holy Spirit in a person to harmonize James with Paul?
Absolutely. Ultimately it is God the Holy Spirit who must (and will) lead us into all truth, by harmonizing all Scriptures, in order to conform them to the heart, mind, and character of God and Christ.

No doubt (as Peter says) there are some things hard to be understood. Therefore Scriptures which are plain must be used to illuminate those which are not.

If Romans 4 clearly presents justification by grace through faith and imputed righteousness as a gift of grace, then whatever James says must conform to this. Paul shows us how sinners and justified in the sight of God, while James shows us how skeptics view our claims of being justified through our good works.
 
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H. Richard

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(James 2:23) "And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness...." James doesn't say that righteousness was not imputed to Abraham in (Gen. 15). He says that Abrahams offering of Isaac was a fulfillment of that.

You are intentionally trying to complicate the issue when it is not complicated at all. Paul and James are talking about different aspects of salvation. This is why different periods of time are addressed. Paul speaks to ones initial salvation before God. James is speaking of ones walk of salvation as seen before men. Thus, as I showed you already, James does not choose the time when Rahab was first saved. He chooses the time when, because she was saved, she did what she did.

Yes, I know what I am doing. And what you are doing is very dangerous. Your are declaring a book of the Bible as not of God.

Stranger
***
You said; ''Your are declaring a book of the Bible as not of God."""

NO I AN NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

And Jesus said He was God and they crucified Him for saying It. Don't try and indicate I am doing wrong to threaten me. You are not God.

I have made it clear that the book of James WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE GENTILE (GRACE CHURCH) and you say it is. The scriptures say it isn't in James 1:1 but you said it is. Again you are not God. The reason you want it to be written to every one is because it teaches man's works to earn salvation.

Wake up!!! James was writing to the JEWS ONLY (JAMES !:!) I have never said the book should be thrown out of the Bible. I have just said it should not be used to teach GRACE because there is nothing in it about the gospel of grace.
 

Stranger

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You said; ''Your are declaring a book of the Bible as not of God."""

NO I AN NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

And Jesus said He was God and they crucified Him for saying It. Don't try and indicate I am doing wrong to threaten me. You are not God.

I have made it clear that the book of James WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE GENTILE (GRACE CHURCH) and you say it is. The scriptures say it isn't in James 1:1 but you said it is. Again you are not God. The reason you want it to be written to every one is because it teaches man's works to earn salvation.

Wake up!!! James was writing to the JEWS ONLY (JAMES !:!) I have never said the book should be thrown out of the Bible. I have just said it should not be used to teach GRACE because there is nothing in it about the gospel of grace.

Yes you are. In post #100 you said James got it wrong. Well, if James got it wrong, then God didn't write the book.

Stranger
 

H. Richard

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Yes you are. In post #100 you said James got it wrong. Well, if James got it wrong, then God didn't write the book.

Stranger

***
Tell me this, if James said Abraham was called righteous in Genesis 22 because Abraham had offered up Isaac then why was Abraham called righteous in Genesis 15;4-6 before Issac was born. This is a fact that is plainly stated in the scriptures. What do you do with this FACT? I suppose you just ignore it.

As for me I use it to understand that the book of James was CLEARLY written to the Jews only who based everything on works. It was not written to the Gentiles and the book said as much. Or do you think the Holy Spirit got it wrong?

Again;
Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does he say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

Two FACTS that you just ignore. I am waiting for your explanation of these obvious contradictions ******* But I know you will only try to rationalize these facts as okay.
 

bbyrd009

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I have made it clear that the book of James WAS NOT WRITTEN TO THE GENTILE (GRACE CHURCH) and you say it is.
it was, and you are going nowhere with this "i don't have to pay attention to the parts of the Bible that i disagree with" yack.
You have been shown plenty ways how we are adopted into Israel, in all those posts you refuse to acknowledge.
You will be judged for your works, just like everyone else, all, and you refuse to acknowledge this also.
In addition you sin further by suggesting that Grace is a get out of jail free card or something.
So what you have made clear is that you are blind, and not interested in seeing, wadr

now i am sorry about this, but when you allow in the half of the Book that you have thrown out,
maybe we can have a grown-up discussion then?
 

bbyrd009

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Wake up!!! James was writing to the JEWS ONLY
yet you cannot Quote this, right, bc it is not true. Now i can agree that you are not included if that is what you prefer--by your own mouth--but that does not exclude the followers of Christ wadr

for not all who are of Israel are these Israel

now why not man up and address the Quotes you currently cannot address, or take your satanic message somewhere else HR?
 
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Small Fish

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James 2:17-18
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

There are multiple threads on works. This thread is not to debate “I will shew thee my faith by my works.” But to show what others may believe are the “works” that show their faith.

Do you have “works” you believe reveal your faith? What are those works? How have your demonstrated faith in the Son of God? How can others see your faith? Is it mere words that you have put your faith in the Son of God?
John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So there you have it
 

bbyrd009

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John 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

So there you have it
just another case of faith turned into belief in English wadr,
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/6-29.htm

the demons believe, too
And don't presume to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones!
 
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bbyrd009

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Are stones(us) turned into bread?
yes, it can work either way i guess, but the point there is the contrast between "believers" and "the faithful" or followers.
Should be abundantly clear that HR et al are believers, by their own confession, reinforced by the interpretation they choose to read, as directly above?
 

Episkopos

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James 2:17-18
[17] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. [18] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

There are multiple threads on works. This thread is not to debate “I will shew thee my faith by my works.” But to show what others may believe are the “works” that show their faith.

Do you have “works” you believe reveal your faith? What are those works? How have your demonstrated faith in the Son of God? How can others see your faith? Is it mere words that you have put your faith in the Son of God?


The word for "faith" in both Hebrew and Greek also means "faithfulness."

So then on the human level we show our faithfulness by our works. We show the quality of our obedience to God so that God is glorified in this. People will know us by our love.

But there is another level of faith. And at that level we show our faith by the supernatural things that follow our walks. When we walk in holiness by walking in the Spirit, power is released into the world. That power is a witness to the truth that Jesus Christ is raised from the dead and reigns in this world by the faith of they who walk in Him.
 

VictoryinJesus

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yes, it can work either way i guess, but the point there is the contrast between "believers" and "the faithful" or followers.
Should be abundantly clear that HR et al are believers, by their own confession, reinforced by the interpretation they choose to read, as directly above?

I'm not sure what you mean? Consider: God is not the author of confusion but of peace. God didn't write the confusion, man wrote(writes) it. What brings confusion and strife and division more than any other? Who is the author of confusion and war more than any other; would it not be the bible(dead without life) used as a weapon without Spirit: Man's word without spirit breeds hatred: not the fruit of God. God's word(Christ/The one with life eternal) is Spirit. Has His seed(the bowels of Christ) not been preserved from the foundation?

A bible laying on a shelf is not His seed.
 
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H. Richard

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yet you cannot Quote this, right, bc it is not true. Now i can agree that you are not included if that is what you prefer--by your own mouth--but that does not exclude the followers of Christ wadr

for not all who are of Israel are these Israel

now why not man up and address the Quotes you currently cannot address, or take your satanic message somewhere else HR?
***

I think they said the same things to Jesus.
 

Stranger

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Tell me this, if James said Abraham was called righteous in Genesis 22 because Abraham had offered up Isaac then why was Abraham called righteous in Genesis 15;4-6 before Issac was born. This is a fact that is plainly stated in the scriptures. What do you do with this FACT? I suppose you just ignore it.

As for me I use it to understand that the book of James was CLEARLY written to the Jews only who based everything on works. It was not written to the Gentiles and the book said as much. Or do you think the Holy Spirit got it wrong?

Again;
Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does he say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

Two FACTS that you just ignore. I am waiting for your explanation of these obvious contradictions ******* But I know you will only try to rationalize these facts as okay.

I have already explained to you concerning Abrahams offer of Isaac and Abraham being declared righteous in (Gen. 15:6). Why do you keep asking? You just ignore what I said.

And, you ignore that you are declaring the book of James not from God. As I just proved to you.

So, what is the deal?

Stranger