Testing the Spirits

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amadeus

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Jesusisfaithful is true but the person bearing this moniker is false. He's a bomb thrower spreading dissention and calling it truth.
His needle apparently is stuck and he has never learned how to properly align it so the song may properly continue. The instruction from God is always there, but sometimes people have decided that anything which disagrees with their own entrenched set of beliefs is not from God, but from elsewhere.

Before his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus, the apostle Paul knew the scriptures well and worked hard for the Pharisees but was only found doing, at best, the work of the left hand of God.


After reading his posts I smell denominational religion very strongly. Taught the wrong things they head out to set God fearing Christians straight. I will relieve myself of him with the simple push of the ignore button. Life is wayyy too short to engage the wind in fruitless wrestling. I know the truth and can't be converted to dead denominationalism.

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8

I have never pushed the actual ignore button on anyone, but sometimes it is prudent to purposely bypass much of what certain people say. This I have certainly done at times. I wish it were never necessary.

It's normal not to agree with everyone but he agrees with NO ONE. That's strange. Beware of the self proclaimed crusader, especially those denying God's gifts and Holy Spirit baptism.
He knows the Bible pretty well, but he does not know God as well as he should and as a result fails to accomplish what he could being on the Lord's side. Charity is really the thing.
 
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Frank Lee

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He reminds me of the visitation groups that used to try and drag me to their churches. Never did I hear about the love of God from them. Only judgement. Mercy rejoices over judgement.

Jesus closed the book just before not reading the vengeance of God part. Religion likes the vengeance part best for some reason.

Denominations have done much damage to the gospel. There is never any love or compassion in their words. Never.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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Jesusisfaithful is true but the person bearing this moniker is false. He's a bomb thrower spreading dissention and calling it truth.

And you are preaching a personal supernatural experience as not happening to every believer and thus preaching another spirit for believers to chase after for a sign.

After reading his posts I smell denominational religion very strongly. Taught the wrong things they head out to set God fearing Christians straight. I will relieve myself of him with the simple push of the ignore button. Life is wayyy too short to engage the wind in fruitless wrestling. I know the truth and can't be converted to dead denominationalism.

Former Presbyterian... withdrew my membership.... I do not represent any church but the faith in Jesus Christ by His grace and by His help.

Whom I preach is what everybody should be able to preach. What I preach does not make me exclusive or divide the body of Christ because you have the Holy Spirit since you were born again.

What do you represent? "Look at me. Look how much I'm closer to God than the average believer. I had experienced something no regular believer knows. See how much benefits I get with tongues for private use. See how much the Holy Spirit prays for me. See how much of a loser you are."

You do not have to say that literally but that is what you are representing as an exclusive and bearing witness that God is a respector of person because not everybody prays in tongues nor had that supernatural experience you had apart from salvation.

It's normal not to agree with everyone but he agrees with NO ONE. That's strange. Beware of the self proclaimed crusader, especially those denying God's gifts and Holy Spirit baptism.

You are the one denying the baptism of the Holy Spirit at salvation when you believe it is separate from the born again of the Spirit salvation moment.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I preach that the baptism of the Holy Spirit IS the born again of the Spirit at our salvation. That is the tradition taught of us and that is the one to hold fast to in defending the faith in Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

I am calling you to repent and to return to your first love. You are preaching another calling and another reception of the Holy Spirit by a sign.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

You are the one preaching others to be like the foolish virgins to go out to the market to get the oil for their lamps. Funny thing is... they are still getting that oil when the Bridegroom comes. So to repent is to stop, return to your first love as Spirit-filled as promised, and seek no more to be filled, while shunning vain and profane babbling and pray normally and give thanks normally which is the will of the Father for us to do.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing. 18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
 

JesusIsFaithful

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He reminds me of the visitation groups that used to try and drag me to their churches. Never did I hear about the love of God from them. Only judgement. Mercy rejoices over judgement.

Jesus closed the book just before not reading the vengeance of God part. Religion likes the vengeance part best for some reason.

Denominations have done much damage to the gospel. There is never any love or compassion in their words. Never.

I'm sure christians that are fornicators feel the same way when you preach to them to repent.

I don't drag any one to church since I do not go to one. I point them back to Jesus Christ, their first love, but christians prefer their private tongues and their supernatural experiences over Him.
 

Hidden In Him

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What do you represent? "Look at me. Look how much I'm closer to God than the average believer. I had experienced something no regular believer knows. See how much benefits I get with tongues for private use. See how much the Holy Spirit prays for me. See how much of a loser you are."

Jesus Is Faithful, so long as you continue to believe this, you are forever going to be deceived. You have been seduced by an evil spirit into believing others see you as "inferior" when no one here has ever tried to make you feel this way. You are deceived, and have been goaded by an unclean spirit into believing this lie, and now you are being used by him every day on this forum.

Is this a condemnation of you as a person or a believer? No. I'm merely pointing out where Satan has tricked you.

Blessings in Christ, Jesus Is Faithful
Hidden In Him
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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Jesus Is Faithful, so long as you continue to believe this, you are forever going to be deceived. You have been seduced by an evil spirit into believing others see you as "inferior" when no one here has ever tried to make you feel this way. You are deceived, and have been goaded by an unclean spirit into believing this lie, and now you are being used by him every day on this forum.

Is this a condemnation of you as a person or a believer? No. I'm merely pointing out where Satan has tricked you.

Blessings in Christ, Jesus Is Faithful
Hidden In Him

Willie-T has done it when replying to amadeus in offering comfort to him which was done at my expense as quoted below.

Amadeus,
He is too far beneath a man like you to even bother stooping to try to help him.. But, I know you are God's man, so of course you still will.

Amadeus responded without any loving correction to Willie T

Thanks for that Willie. We all need encouragement, believe me. Sometimes I get tired, as Paul called it, "weary in well doing", but when I am doing right hopefully I will reach out to the Lord so that He will take hold of my hand. I don't want to sink beneath the waves.

No one corrected Willie T for proving me right that tongue speakers treat themselves as exclusive from the body of Christ and they see it not.

No matter how you slice it, when you guys tote that the baptism of the Holy Ghost apart from salvation that brings that kind of tongues, you guys are departing from the testimony that we are all suppose to share in speaking the same thing and having the same judgment, thus elevating yourself from the average born again believers while failing to NOT believe every spirit but test them as the apostle John warned you guys ( 1 John 4:1-6 ).

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
 

Hidden In Him

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Willie-T has done it when replying to amadeus in offering comfort to him which was done at my expense as quoted below.

That's not in reference to whether you operate in gifts or tongues or not. Willie's not generally the biggest proponent of those things. He just has an issue with you of some sort, not that I condone the statement he made. But he doesn't answer to me.
Amadeus responded without any loving correction to Willie T

Amadeus is more the encouragement type than the correcting type, though I will grant you in both cases that things could have been handled better, IMO.
No one corrected Willie T for proving me right that tongue speakers treat themselves as exclusive from the body of Christ and they see it not.

You'll have to forgive me for not having read this exchange you had with him. You'd have to direct me to it.
No matter how you slice it, when you guys tote that the baptism of the Holy Ghost apart from salvation that brings that kind of tongues, you guys are departing from the testimony that we are all suppose to share in speaking the same thing and having the same judgment

I would truly love it if this were the case, but it will not be unfortunately, and it would be a tremendous mistake to seek to do so at the expense of teaching that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is still something that should be sought today. It would be like my telling you that you need to compromise everything you teach and believe that does not conform to Catholicism in order to speak the same thing as they do.
thus elevating yourself from the average born again believers while failing to NOT believe every spirit but test them as the apostle John warned you guys ( 1 John 4:1-6 ).

Buddy, you are still stuck on this, and I am telling you it is a misconception. I can't speak for every charismatic whom you will ever meet, but the ones here mean you no harm. They are good people. And I can assure you I don't view you as any less a Christian than I or anyone else is here at this forum. That's the whole point with the Spirit baptism; you come away knowing that the power is of Him and not you, and into all the more realization that you amount to NOTHING. You may not believe me, but I'm telling you. I don't hold myself as superior to anyone anywhere, let alone you.
 
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amadeus

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@Willie T
Willie-T has done it when replying to amadeus in offering comfort to him which was done at my expense as quoted below.
My friend, I have, as it were, walked on eggshells around you so as not to offend unnecessarily, but sometimes you simply take offense while never admitting even to yourself that maybe you have also offended others with your single-minded thrust.

If I have offended you unnecessarily, I apologize, but consider that sometimes the necessity was on God's part:

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" Matt 18:7

Amadeus responded without any loving correction to Willie T
Am I to judge every word that Willie T says? I am not qualified. Perhaps I did agree with him and simply did not want to add fuel to any wild fires. Perhaps he spoke because that was what God directed him to do.

Are you the only one hearing from God correctly and the only one acting or reacting correctly to what you have heard? If you want to discuss differences, do so with anyone willing to do so, but slow down on trying to do God's job. I don't believe that you are qualified. Do you?

No one corrected Willie T for proving me right that tongue speakers treat themselves as exclusive from the body of Christ and they see it not.
Even if you were correct in what you say here, which I do not admit, don't draw a final conclusion from that. For the same question there can be two or more correct answers dependent on the situation. God always knows the correct answer in each and every situation. No one else does. This does include me, and it also includes you.

Even if you were to win a battle, the war will still be won by God and those who are on His side at the end of the road. Anyone not practicing charity will end up with nothing at all.

No matter how you slice it, when you guys tote that the baptism of the Holy Ghost apart from salvation that brings that kind of tongues, you guys are departing from the testimony that we are all suppose to share in speaking the same thing and having the same judgment, thus elevating yourself from the average born again believers while failing to NOT believe every spirit but test them as the apostle John warned you guys ( 1 John 4:1-6 ).

Your record is still stuck. You apparently believed you needed to give people here a warning. You have done so repeatedly. Now stand back and leave it in God's capable hands... unless you don't trust His ability?

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

The mind is one and is that of the Lord Jesus. The parts are many and each part is subject only to Him, not to the other parts. The other parts are not the Head. The Head is Jesus.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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Buddy, you are still stuck on this, and I am telling you it is a misconception. I can't speak for every charismatic whom you will ever meet, but the ones here mean you no harm. They are good people. And I can assure you I don't view you as any less a Christian than I or anyone else is here at this forum. That's the whole point with the Spirit baptism; you come away knowing that the power is of Him and not you, and into all the more realization that you amount to NOTHING. You may not believe me, but I'm telling you. I don't hold myself as superior to anyone anywhere, let alone you.

But by having that "other" baptism of the Holy Ghost which by that second blessing, you got tongues to pray in, you testify to more than one drink of the One Spirit that we were all baptized with at our salvation.

You show as if God is treating a sect of believers differently as if the Holy Spirit is not making any intercessions for the rest of the body of believers that do not pray in tongues.

By separating born again of the Spirit from the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, and by referring to Acts 19 as proof, you guys do not realize that you are sowing doubts to believers about whether or not they are saved because of Romans 8:9. So they wind up anyway, seeking to receive the Holy Spirit by a sign of tongues ( which tongues was never to serve as a sign to already saved believers in the first place 1 Corinthians 14:22 ), when they already have Him as promised at their salvation for why they are complete in Christ ( Colossians 2:5-10 )

Did you get that?

By testifying to something not every believer has, and this was done by breaking away from what we all are suppose to share in saying the same thing in 1 Corinthians 12:13, you are preaching exclusivity; an elite class of believers, and sometimes without meaning to, some will say the real Spirit-filled believers.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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@Willie T

My friend, I have, as it were, walked on eggshells around you so as not to offend unnecessarily, but sometimes you simply take offense while never admitting even to yourself that maybe you have also offended others your single-minded thrust.

If I have offended you unnecessarily, I apologize, but consider that sometimes the necessity was on God's part:

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" Matt 18:7


Am I to judge every word that Willie T says? I am not qualified. Perhaps I did agree with him and simply did not want to add fuel to the any wild fires. Perhaps he spoke because that was what God directed him to do.

Are you the only one hearing from God correctly and the only one acting or reacting correctly to what you have heard? If you want to discuss differences, do so with anyone willing to do so, but slow down on trying to do God's job. I don't believe that you are qualified. Do you?


Even if you were correct in what you say here, which I do not admit, you don't draw a final conclusion from that. For the same question there can be two or more correct answers dependent on the situation. God always knows the correct answer in each and every situation. No one else does. This does include me, but it also includes you.

Even if you were to win a battle, the war will still be won by God and those who are on His side at the end of the road. Anyone not practicing charity will end up with nothing at all.



Your record is still stuck. You apparently believed you needed to give people here a a warning. You have done so repeatedly. Now stand back and leave it in God's capable hands... unless you don't trust His ability?



The mind is one and is that of the Lord Jesus. The parts are many and each part is subject only to Him, not to the other parts. The other parts are not the Head. The Head is Jesus.

If Jesus is truly the Head, then where is your focus? The Holy Spirit or the Son of God at that throne of grace in prayer and in worship?

Seems like to me, you letting the "Spirit" do your praying for you, I would have to say the Spirit is your focus. If you prayed normally, then that would be YOU praying with your focus on the Head.
 

amadeus

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If Jesus is truly the Head, then where is your focus? The Holy Spirit or the Son of God at that throne of grace in prayer and in worship?

Seems like to me, you letting the "Spirit" do your praying for you, I would have to say the Spirit is your focus. If you prayed normally, then that would be YOU praying with your focus on the Head.
Sorry but it is a dead horse. We are not communicating. Back into God's capable hands!
 
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Hidden In Him

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But by having that "other" baptism of the Holy Ghost which by that second blessing, you got tongues to pray in, you testify to more than one drink of the One Spirit that we were all baptized with at our salvation.

If you are referring to Ephesians 4:5, the context makes it clear he is referring to Spirit baptism, not water baptism.
You show as if God is treating a sect of believers differently

Again, I don't believe I nor anyone else who has been truly baptized in the Spirit wants anyone else to be treated differently, and I know for certain that God doesn't. But if they reject the experience as unscriptural, it is they who limit their own experience of spiritual things rather than God electing to treat them differently.
as if the Holy Spirit is not making any intercessions for the rest of the body of believers that do not pray in tongues.

The Holy Spirit still intercedes to the Father on behalf of those who haven't received the baptism, LoL. He just isn't able to communicate through them directly as He would if they had.
By separating born again of the Spirit from the baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, and by referring to Acts 19 as proof, you guys do not realize that you are sowing doubts to believers about whether or not they are saved

Listen, for starters this subject isn't something I go around talking a lot about to begin with. It's generally only when it is getting assailed that I feel the need to defend it. But I have now determined that the next time I do hear someone even remotely suggesting there is no salvation without the baptism I intend on coming down hard on them. I can see how it causes concerns in some. But take a lesson from the way I always approached it. When I was asked if I wanted to experience the baptism in the Holy Spirit, I simply shrugged my shoulders and said, "If it's something the Lord wants me to have then I'm all for it." I honestly wasn't concerned one way or the other, because I was too consumed with growing in the Lord one way or the other. I was never nervous about anything, and the issue didn't really concern me. As a result, I was at peace when it came time, and received very powerfully, because I could have taken it or left it. I suggest you take the same attitude. It's not healthy being that concerned about it one way or another.

This passage was never intended by Paul to be read outside the common Christian experience at the time, which was that all had received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Does this mean those who have not received the baptism do not have the Spirit dwelling within them? No, not if you take 1 Corinthians 12:3 literally. As I teach it, the baptism is a matter of extent; of being taken under and submerged in the water, and of rivers of water flowing out from the belly, rather than it simply abiding within in a sort of contained way, as in a cup, to use an analogy.
when they already have Him as promised at their salvation for why they are complete in Christ ( Colossians 2:5-10 )

Colossians 2:5-10 wasn't written over any debate concerning the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It was written in refutation against the threat of Essenism, which was encroaching on the churches at Colosse and Galatia.
By testifying to something not every believer has, and this was done by breaking away from what we all are suppose to share in saying the same thing in 1 Corinthians 12:13, you are preaching exclusivity

γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ Πνεύματι ἡμεῖς πάντες εἰς ἓν σῶμα ἐβαπτίσθημεν = "for by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body." It was not a doctrinal statement about what all Christians today are all baptized into. It was a statement about what they all had been baptized into back then, before Satan convinced large segments of Christianity that they had no need of the baptism since they had supposedly received everything they needed when they received Christ as Savior.
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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If you are referring to Ephesians 4:5, the context makes it clear he is referring to Spirit baptism, not water baptism.

I also, was referring to Spirit baptism, not water baptism. The baptism of the Holy Ghost, the born again of the spirit, and the sanctification of the Spirit only happens at our salvation at the calling of the gospel; not by saved believers looking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.

Again, I don't believe I nor anyone else who has been truly baptized in the Spirit wants anyone else to be treated differently, and I know for certain that God doesn't. But if they reject the experience as unscriptural, it is they who limit their own experience of spiritual things rather than God electing to treat them differently.

If we are all to speak the same thing and hold to the same judgment and thereby give testimony that we all share in how we were all baptized into one body whereby we all say we were all made to drink of the One Spirit as per 1 Corinthians 12:13, then there can be no deviation from that testimony of some believers having another drink of the One Spirit. That is how it becomes unscriptural.

The Holy Spirit still intercedes to the Father on behalf of those who haven't received the baptism, LoL. He just isn't able to communicate through them directly as He would if they had.

You think about what you just said. If the indwelling Holy Spirit is interceding for all believers anyway, then what is the point for the Spirit to pray in tongues? None. So when I say you do not need tongues for the Holy Spirit to pray in, I am pointing to Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV as a testimony that all believers can share in in speaking the same thing. But tongues for the Holy Spirit to pray in? That is exclusivity and a mark of the elite.

Listen, for starters this subject isn't something I go around talking a lot about to begin with. It's generally only when it is getting assailed that I feel the need to defend it. But I have now determined that the next time I do hear someone even remotely suggesting there is no salvation without the baptism I intend on coming down hard on them. I can see how it causes concerns in some. But take a lesson from the way I always approached it. When I was asked if I wanted to experience the baptism in the Holy Spirit, I simply shrugged my shoulders and said, "If it's something the Lord wants me to have then I'm all for it." I honestly wasn't concerned one way or the other, because I was too consumed with growing in the Lord one way or the other. I was never nervous about anything, and the issue didn't really concern me. As a result, I was at peace when it came time, and received very powerfully, because I could have taken it or left it. I suggest you take the same attitude. It's not healthy being that concerned about it one way or another.

You guys do not pay attention to how Frank Lee is defending tongues. He points to Acts 19 to use that reference that not every believer gets the Holy Ghost. Then when a believer knows about Romans 8:9, then hears that, then they begin to doubt their salvation just because they don't speak in tongues and so they look for that baptism of the Holy Ghost by the sign of tongues. And that is why some of them are saying if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Ghost, and therefore you are not saved.

You guys ignore the groundwork laid by tongue speakers for the defense of gaining tongues by receiving the Holy Spirit spectacularly later in life as a saved believer.

My former neighbor across the street was telling me that one day she was reading her Bible at the kitchen table when the Holy Spirit came over her and she began speaking in tongues. Then she went on to say that was when she was saved because she got it all at once. Then I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant. Then she went on to tell me how she went to Lakeside and had asked her pastor what had happened because she had been a believer for most of her life. Then the pastor pointed to something in Acts, or so she said. She still clings to that changed testimony as to that was when she was saved and not by believing in Him at the calling of the gospel. That in turn sets the hearers to doubt their own salvation and to seek after the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues.

She went on to tell me how others in that church had similar experiences but she rolled her eyes about it and did not care to share it with me.

I was once in that Lakeside church and the pastor had to make sure everybody in that assembly knew about Jesus Christ and the Good News to man before he put the focus on the Holy Spirit. There was such an urgency about it but it don on me that it was possible that some had the experience of feeling a spirit coming over them as they were speaking in tongues only to find out later that they had never believed in Jesus Christ as their Savior.

I cannot confirm this at all, but that was the way I had perceived that pastor, by making sure he did not make that mistake again. It was notable.

I also noted that Joyce Meyers described the same experience but took that to mean God was calling her into the ministry.

Others have different ideas about what that phenomenon was about and all the ones after it.

And I am saying you guys don't really know what that was otherwise the Spirit of Truth would not be all over the place about what that moment was.

This passage was never intended by Paul to be read outside the common Christian experience at the time, which was that all had received the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Does this mean those who have not received the baptism do not have the Spirit dwelling within them? No, not if you take 1 Corinthians 12:3 literally. As I teach it, the baptism is a matter of extent; of being taken under and submerged in the water, and of rivers of water flowing out from the belly, rather than it simply abiding within in a sort of contained way, as in a cup, to use an analogy.

Matthew 9:17 would disagree with you since being always spirit-filled is part and proof of the testimony that we have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:14 cites it as a promise and Galatians 3:26 identifies that faith in Jesus Christ is how we are all defined as children of God by.

Colossians 2:5-10 wasn't written over any debate concerning the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It was written in refutation against the threat of Essenism, which was encroaching on the churches at Colosse and Galatia.

Nevertheless, it also refutes the idea that you are not complete in Christ as if you are not full for why believers err by thinking they need a filling apart from salvation after having received Jesus Christ.

γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ Πνεύματι ἡμεῖς πάντες εἰς ἓν σῶμα ἐβαπτίσθημεν = "for by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body." It was not a doctrinal statement about what all Christians today are all baptized into. It was a statement about what they all had been baptized into back then, before Satan convinced large segments of Christianity that they had no need of the baptism since they had supposedly received everything they needed when they received Christ as Savior.

This has nothing to do with water baptism when it involves the one drink of the One Spirit thus the baptism with the Holy Ghost at our salvation.
 

Helen

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My former neighbor across the street was telling me that one day she was reading her Bible at the kitchen table when the Holy Spirit came over her and she began speaking in tongues. Then she went on to say that was when she was saved because she got it all at once. Then I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant. Then she went on to tell me how she went to Lakeside and had asked her pastor what had happened because she had been a believer for most of her life. Then the pastor pointed to something in Acts, or so she said. She still clings to that changed testimony as to that was when she was saved and not by believing in Him at the calling of the gospel. That in turn sets the hearers to doubt their own salvation and to seek after the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues.

She went on to tell me how others in that church had similar experiences but she rolled her eyes about it and did not care to share it with me.

I was once in that Lakeside church and the pastor had to make sure everybody in that assembly knew about Jesus Christ and the Good News to man before he put the focus on the Holy Spirit. There was such an urgency about it but it don on me that it was possible that some had the experience of feeling a spirit coming over them as they were speaking in tongues only to find out later that they had never believed in Jesus Christ as their Savior.

I cannot confirm this at all, but that was the way I had perceived that pastor, by making sure he did not make that mistake again. It was notable.

I also noted that Joyce Meyers described the same experience but took that to mean God was calling her into the ministry.

Others have different ideas about what that phenomenon was about and all the ones after it.

And I am saying you guys don't really know what that was otherwise the Spirit of Truth would not be all over the place about what that moment was.

Brother.
I have to agree with Amadeus here...
Your record is stuck in the same old grove.

I don't have the inclination to go back through all your posts and find out just how many times you have said this same thing ..over and over again.

So...you saw and heard these things...I too said the first time I read them that I agreed...and I asked you back then...Why do you keep putting us ALL in your same box?
Now you are plonking @Hidden In Him into that box also with the rest of us that you have accused!!
You don't seem to be able to help yourself.

There are some 'crazy' people out there...but why do we have to be crazy too , just because you happened to bump into a few nut cases along the way.

This has become a division with you on this forum because you just wont let it go...but keep on talking about it.

Can it not just rest now?
RIP....
 
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Hidden In Him

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I also, was referring to Spirit baptism, not water baptism. The baptism of the Holy Ghost, the born again of the spirit, and the sanctification of the Spirit only happens at our salvation at the calling of the gospel; not by saved believers looking to receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation.



If we are all to speak the same thing and hold to the same judgment and thereby give testimony that we all share in how we were all baptized into one body whereby we all say we were all made to drink of the One Spirit as per 1 Corinthians 12:13, then there can be no deviation from that testimony of some believers having another drink of the One Spirit. That is how it becomes unscriptural.



You think about what you just said. If the indwelling Holy Spirit is interceding for all believers anyway, then what is the point for the Spirit to pray in tongues? None. So when I say you do not need tongues for the Holy Spirit to pray in, I am pointing to Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV as a testimony that all believers can share in in speaking the same thing. But tongues for the Holy Spirit to pray in? That is exclusivity and a mark of the elite.



You guys do not pay attention to how Frank Lee is defending tongues. He points to Acts 19 to use that reference that not every believer gets the Holy Ghost. Then when a believer knows about Romans 8:9, then hears that, then they begin to doubt their salvation just because they don't speak in tongues and so they look for that baptism of the Holy Ghost by the sign of tongues. And that is why some of them are saying if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the Holy Ghost, and therefore you are not saved.

You guys ignore the groundwork laid by tongue speakers for the defense of gaining tongues by receiving the Holy Spirit spectacularly later in life as a saved believer.

My former neighbor across the street was telling me that one day she was reading her Bible at the kitchen table when the Holy Spirit came over her and she began speaking in tongues. Then she went on to say that was when she was saved because she got it all at once. Then I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. She did not know what I had meant. Then she went on to tell me how she went to Lakeside and had asked her pastor what had happened because she had been a believer for most of her life. Then the pastor pointed to something in Acts, or so she said. She still clings to that changed testimony as to that was when she was saved and not by believing in Him at the calling of the gospel. That in turn sets the hearers to doubt their own salvation and to seek after the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues.

She went on to tell me how others in that church had similar experiences but she rolled her eyes about it and did not care to share it with me.

I was once in that Lakeside church and the pastor had to make sure everybody in that assembly knew about Jesus Christ and the Good News to man before he put the focus on the Holy Spirit. There was such an urgency about it but it don on me that it was possible that some had the experience of feeling a spirit coming over them as they were speaking in tongues only to find out later that they had never believed in Jesus Christ as their Savior.

I cannot confirm this at all, but that was the way I had perceived that pastor, by making sure he did not make that mistake again. It was notable.

I also noted that Joyce Meyers described the same experience but took that to mean God was calling her into the ministry.

Others have different ideas about what that phenomenon was about and all the ones after it.

And I am saying you guys don't really know what that was otherwise the Spirit of Truth would not be all over the place about what that moment was.



Matthew 9:17 would disagree with you since being always spirit-filled is part and proof of the testimony that we have been saved by faith in Jesus Christ. Galatians 3:14 cites it as a promise and Galatians 3:26 identifies that faith in Jesus Christ is how we are all defined as children of God by.



Nevertheless, it also refutes the idea that you are not complete in Christ as if you are not full for why believers err by thinking they need a filling apart from salvation after having received Jesus Christ.



This has nothing to do with water baptism when it involves the one drink of the One Spirit thus the baptism with the Holy Ghost at our salvation.

This was a truly disappointing post. Took me two days to even desire to respond to it. It communicates that you have no desire whatsoever to listen to what I am saying, and even continue accusing me of pride and "elitism" after I bore my soul on the matter. There's no point in responding to any of it, or any of your posts in the future. You will still accuse me and slander me, and no amount of attempting to extend friendship or anything I know from God will be a wise expenditure of time.

Call it a learning lesson. "By Grace" was right. There was little reason to spend much time, but I had to try for my own sake. Expect no responses to your posts or questions in the future. I'm sure this will mean nothing to you, but it's not meant to mean anything to you as if I was trying to make you feel guilty. I'm simply notifying you that we have no fellowship, so there is no need to correspond. Nor will I be reading your posts, so anything you write will be strictly for the sake of others reading them. Feel free to continue slandering me and defending it by saying you are standing up for "truth."

Blessings in Christ, and I wish you well. But this may be the last correspondence I have with you for many years.

In Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him
 
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JesusIsFaithful

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This is a quote from Hidden In Him

"This was a truly disappointing post. Took me two days to even desire to respond to it. It communicates that you have no desire whatsoever to listen to what I am saying, and even continue accusing me of pride and "elitism" after I bore my soul on the matter. There's no point in responding to any of it, or any of your posts in the future. You will still accuse me and slander me, and no amount of attempting to extend friendship or anything I know from God will be a wise expenditure of time.

Call it a learning lesson. "By Grace" was right. There was little reason to spend much time, but I had to try for my own sake. Expect no responses to your posts or questions in the future. I'm sure this will mean nothing to you, but it's not meant to mean anything to you as if I was trying to make you feel guilty. I'm simply notifying you that we have no fellowship, so there is no need to correspond. Nor will I be reading your posts, so anything you write will be strictly for the sake of others reading them. Feel free to continue slandering me and defending it by saying you are standing up for "truth."

Blessings in Christ, and I wish you well. But this may be the last correspondence I have with you for many years.

In Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him"

This is from his earlier quote that I had responded to which he was offended by when his quote sets the basis for exclusivity and elitism, having something that the rest of the original body of Christ did not have by implying something they lack as he was doing this to deny the truth of 1 Corinthians 12:13.

"γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ Πνεύματι ἡμεῖς πάντες εἰς ἓν σῶμα ἐβαπτίσθημεν = "for by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body." It was not a doctrinal statement about what all Christians today are all baptized into. It was a statement about what they all had been baptized into back then, before Satan convinced large segments of Christianity that they had no need of the baptism since they had supposedly received everything they needed when they received Christ as Savior."

Now Hidden in Him and ByGrace cannot see how his words continue to prove my point that in no way what so ever, God would ever divide the body of Christ in that way by giving some believers a baptism with the Holy Ghost apart from salvation with evidence of tongues, no less when tongues are not suppose to serve as a sign to believers about anything, but yet this other calling is to receive that "Spirit" by the sign of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

What they are defending, and I know it is personal and "deep" for them, is that they are not defending the faith in the gospel that we are all suppose to share in.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

We are no longer speaking the same thing. They departed from that testimony above because they wanted to believe that was the Holy Spirit coming over them apart from salvation later in life when they got that supernatural tongue.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

They are still our brother & sister, but I accept their withdrawing from responding to me. I testify that they had departed from speaking the same thing way before this withdrawing.
 

Hidden In Him

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This is a quote from Hidden In Him

"This was a truly disappointing post. Took me two days to even desire to respond to it. It communicates that you have no desire whatsoever to listen to what I am saying, and even continue accusing me of pride and "elitism" after I bore my soul on the matter. There's no point in responding to any of it, or any of your posts in the future. You will still accuse me and slander me, and no amount of attempting to extend friendship or anything I know from God will be a wise expenditure of time.

Call it a learning lesson. "By Grace" was right. There was little reason to spend much time, but I had to try for my own sake. Expect no responses to your posts or questions in the future. I'm sure this will mean nothing to you, but it's not meant to mean anything to you as if I was trying to make you feel guilty. I'm simply notifying you that we have no fellowship, so there is no need to correspond. Nor will I be reading your posts, so anything you write will be strictly for the sake of others reading them. Feel free to continue slandering me and defending it by saying you are standing up for "truth."

Blessings in Christ, and I wish you well. But this may be the last correspondence I have with you for many years.

In Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him"

This is from his earlier quote that I had responded to which he was offended by when his quote sets the basis for exclusivity and elitism, having something that the rest of the original body of Christ did not have by implying something they lack as he was doing this to deny the truth of 1 Corinthians 12:13.

"γὰρ ἐν ἑνὶ Πνεύματι ἡμεῖς πάντες εἰς ἓν σῶμα ἐβαπτίσθημεν = "for by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body." It was not a doctrinal statement about what all Christians today are all baptized into. It was a statement about what they all had been baptized into back then, before Satan convinced large segments of Christianity that they had no need of the baptism since they had supposedly received everything they needed when they received Christ as Savior."

Now Hidden in Him and ByGrace cannot see how his words continue to prove my point that in no way what so ever, God would ever divide the body of Christ in that way by giving some believers a baptism with the Holy Ghost apart from salvation with evidence of tongues, no less when tongues are not suppose to serve as a sign to believers about anything, but yet this other calling is to receive that "Spirit" by the sign of tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

What they are defending, and I know it is personal and "deep" for them, is that they are not defending the faith in the gospel that we are all suppose to share in.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

We are no longer speaking the same thing. They departed from that testimony above because they wanted to believe that was the Holy Spirit coming over them apart from salvation later in life when they got that supernatural tongue.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

They are still our brother & sister, but I accept their withdrawing from responding to me. I testify that they had departed from speaking the same thing way before this withdrawing.

It was over slander, not over doctrine, and I expected you would deny this or ignore it, in confirmation of what I was saying. But so everyone else knows, this is why. You and I don't drink of one and the same Spirit too often, because you don't hesitate to engage in character assassination, which is something I'm not comfortable with. Just as well that I kept my word and moved on.

Blessings,
Hidden
 
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