New Covenant

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Newcolors

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Mar 20, 2008
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KrissI must disagree with you on the issue of Sabbath. The 4th Commandment is a perpetual instruction given by the King of the Universe to all peoples. (See Isaiah 56) It was established before Sinai...it continued after Sinai...Jesus kept it (we are supposed to imitate Him) Paul honored it (he said imitate me as I imitate Messiah)...and according to the prophets it will be kept in the future. Isaiah 66:23 says "And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worhsip before Me, Says the Lord."Concerning Col 2:16...I do not mean to be offensive, but please consider. If you are using this verse in proper context then I would assume it would be okay for me to get drunk every day…feast on bloody batwings and of course ignore one of the Ten commandments… namely the 4th....and you would be sinning by telling me I am sinning. Of course…we know this is not what Paul was advocating. Approaching Colossians 2 with proper hermeneutics will yield the student a much clearer view of Paul’s point. Search Colossians chapter two for context… Hint…keep your ears open for words and phrases such as “deception”…“persuasive words”…“philosophy”… “empty deceit”…“traditions of men” along with “basic principles of the world” and ask yourself whether Paul’s concern is with those who are wanting to obey God’s Commandments.Also, we know that Paul obeyed Torah. He said in Acts 24:14 that he believed "all things written in the Law and in the Prophets". Believing and doing went hand in hand in the Hebrew mind. If Paul was teaching people it was okay to disobey the 4th Commandment...then he was a false prophet according to the very Torah he claimed to believe in. (see Deuteronomy 13)Again...I hope I don't offend...but in Matthew 5:19 Jesus warns us about teaching people that it's okay to break even the least of the commandments...let alone the 4th.Newcolors
 

Christina

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Its not disbelieving as you are trying portray but the oppisite it is full understanding you are free to disagree with me and Col. if you like it is saying we do not base our beliefs or are we to let any man judge us in drink, as the heathens do or food or day nor moons you read it anyway you want but you will not find the apostles following Sabbath day laws nor Christ himself it says is on the sabbath they went into the synagogue to teach of course thats where the jews were that doesnt mean they reconized it in fact there is plenty of scripture they did not. Christ himself healed on the Sabbath and broke itChrist is our Sabbath not a day if you do not understand how Christ was the fulfillment of this its your misunderstanding not mine no offense given or taken we just disagree. I am a great supporter of the Old testament and the Law and I would never teach against itI just have a full understanding of the fulfillment We are not only to observe the 4th commandment and keep it we are to do it every DayAs Christ is our resting placing our sabbath. You want to worship on a day based on lunur calander /moons go ahead I worship Christ everyday he is my Sabbath.God doesnt care what day you worship he cares Who you worship and he exspects you to worship him more than once a week ..................Mar 2:23 ¶ And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
 

Newcolors

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Kriss...All thru Scripture we find Jesus keeping ALL the Appointed times of God including the Sabbath. What do you think he was observing at Passover...communion? Consider where He was when He cried out "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink"?? (Feast of Tabernacles is the answer) Of course He kept the Appointed Times. He is the one who came up with them.Concerning Jesus breaking Sabbath...I am always amazed when I hear someone who professes Christ...someone who has supposedly put their faith in that spotless Lamb of God...the one who according to Scripture was tempted in all things yet knew no sin...suddenly (in an attempt to justify their own failure to heed the 4th Commandment) try to tell the world that Jesus actually sinned by breaking the 4th Commandment thus making everything okay. If it were not so serious it would be funny. But it is serious. If what you say is true...then Jesus is not the Messiah. Instead He was a false prophet according to His own Word. Also...if He broke the 4th Commandment then He trangressed God's Commandments thus sinning. (!John 3:4) Your position does not stand up to even the simplest scrutiny. I do recognize however that you are not alone...in fact you probably stand in the majority.I would suggest you study the difference between the Sabbath Commands as given in Torah and the traditions of men...the fences which were added thru the years as extra protections of Sabbath. Healing on the Sabbath was never prohibited in Torah. Jesus was often in conflict with traditions of men...but never the Commandments of God.Please rethink your position that Jesus sinned. By the Way...The other excuse I often hear as to why Christians don't obey God's command to rest on the 7th day is that "it was never repeated in the New testament". Guess why? Everybody already knew which day the Sabbath was on! It was never up for debate. Only today as Christians try to justify their following the traditions of the Catholic church instead of the Commandments of God do we invent these crazy excuses. (Yes it was the catholic church who instituted sunday...google it if you don't believe me) The Sabbath Command is probably one of the most often repeated commands in the bible....but we don't obey it.Also Kriss...The issue of Paul as I pointed out above still remains. Was he a false prophet as well? Did he really ignore what Jesus said in Matthew 5:19? Did he believe one thing but do another? What do you think Matthew 5:19 is saying? Could Peter's warning concerning the writings of Paul be justified when he said... "as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him hs written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures..." (2Peter 3:16)Finally Kriss...if the common view on this Christian board is that Jesus sinned by breaking the fourth commandment...then I will shake the dust off my keyboard and move on. Just let me know everyone. I will not waste my time trying to convince you all of what should have already been learned in "Jesus 101". The Messiah I have put my trust in is without sin...He kept His Father's instructions perfectly while saying follow Me. I am a disciple of Christ...He kept the Sabbath so...I and my family keep Sabbath.Let me add...keeping Sabbath is not what saves me...I am saved by what Christ did on the cross...that is what makes you and I Kriss...brothers in the Lord. But now as His disciples...we should imitate Him. Breaking the Sabbath always was and continues to be trangression of God's Law....sin...no matter what man might say.Newcolors
 

Christina

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Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. We are not only to observe the 4th commandment and keep it we are to do it every DayAs Christ is our resting placing our sabbath. You want to worship on a day based on lunur calander /moons go ahead I worship Christ everyday he is my Sabbath.God doesnt care what day you worship he cares Who you worship and he exspects you to worship him more than once a weekRomans 14:5
 

Christina

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I would futhermore ask you that you show me one scripture that ever says Sabbath is about a day of Worship From the very beginning it was a Day of rest (no work) people there fore used this day of rest to go to synagogue and worship then they began putting all these rules on what work was as the Pharasee's remined Christ and the apostels all the meeting Jews had in Acts ext. were on the Sabbath not nessarily because it was a worship day but because they were at rest on that day. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11).Where are we to put our rest as Christains ?? In Christ who is our Sabbath. If you do take a day of rest you are to spend it in Christ just as everyother day of the weekThe fourth commandment is of the greatest importance just do not be confused that it is a day of worship it is a time to rest in Christ rest in him everyday
 

Newcolors

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Mar 20, 2008
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Kriss...I don't recall saying the the Sabbath was given as a day for worship. I am not confused. I agree with you that the Sabbath is a day of rest. I also agree with you that everyday is a day of worship for us who believe and follow the God of Abraham.You stated above that "not only are we to observe the 4th Commandment and keep it we are to do it every day". You seem to be contradicting yourself but I agree that we are to keep the 4th Commandment. But it need be done only on the 7th Day. The 4th Commandment is all about the 7th day...no other day. In fact...we are commanded to work the other six days. It is very plain. Work 6 days...rest on the 7th. It's never changed. Again Kriss...the Torah did not forbid healing on the Sabbath. In the mind of the accusing Jews...He did break the Sabbath...just as they thought He sinned for claiming to be equal with God in that same verse. But you and I as followers of Christ should know that they were wrong...on both accounts. Right? Consider John 18:29-30 "Pilate then went out to them and said, What accusation do you bring against this man? They answered and said to him "If He were not an evildoer, we would not have delivered Him up to you." Question Kriss...According to the Jews in this verse Jesus was an evildoer... Is that true? I hope you get my point."Also the sons of the foreigner who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants--Everyone who keep from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant--Even them I will bring to My holy mountain... Isaiah 56:6-7God bless as you study...Newcolors
 

Christina

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Iam not going to argue with you over this I am telling you Christ fulfilled this Law and became our Sabbath we are not to go by any day or moon but the important part here is we agree the 4th commandment is very important and I have not contradicted myself I have never said differnt from the begining Christ fulfilled the rest of the laws in that if we break them Now the only way we can be forgiven is repentace and turning to him. Just as in the day of the Jews there was a differnt penalty for breaking the lawChrist changed that as he did with the Sabbath He is the only way.You think its a day I think its everyday its not worth arguing about as I doubt either one of us will change our mind whats important here is that which ever the reader believes about the Sabbath know that ALL THE LAWS ARE IN EFFECT AND AS IMPORTANT TODAY AS YESTERDAY EVERY ONE IS UNDER THE LAW AND THAT HAS NEVER CHANGED
 

Newcolors

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Kriss,True or False...--Torah says that we are to work 6 days and rest on the 7th Day. True or False---According to Scripture (1John 3:4) sin is trangression of God's Torah as given thru Moses. True or False---Jesus was without sin meaning He kept all of Torah. True of False---As His disciples we are to imitate Him in all things. True or False---We are to love God. True or False---Scripture defines loving God as follows..."For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His Commandments are not burdensome". 1John 5:3 True or False--true repentance is a turning back to Torah...it's when we stop sinning (transgressing God's Laws) and start obeying God's Commandments. (His Torah) True or Falsethanks...
 

Christina

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We follow Gods laws Sabbath= rest we are to rest in Christ what part of Christ was the fulfillment of Gods Law are you arguing with?This is the New Covenant we are to follow it not the old what is the New Covenant in a nutshell it is Christ He is the new way for all.I said if you think you are to rest(Sabbath) in Christ every 6 days feel freeI will follow the commandments and understand Christ fulfilled them and we are to Sabbath in him everyday as he became our Sabbath you believe its a day feel free My bible tells me I am not to follow a Day but put my faith in Christ my Sabbath everydayI frankly think your questions are out of context I am not talking breaking the Law Im saying we are to follow it the only controversy here is you want to read it in the Old covenant context Im reading it under the New covenant contextChrist came to fulfill the law what do you think this means???
 

Christina

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Mark 2:27 "And He said unto them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:"The Sabbath was made for man in the flesh only, it was not made for God or the angels. God did not create man for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was a time set aside for man to rest and refresh himself.Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath."The word Sabbath means "rest", and in Hebrews 4, we are reminded that Christ is our Sabbath. Hebrews 4:1 "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into His rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."Hebrews 4:3 "For we which have believed do enter into rest, as He said, "As I have sworn in My wrath, if they shall enter into My rest:" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world."This verse can be translated in several ways. Your "rest" is your "sabbath" or "abode". It is a place where you can settle down and find some peace of mind. "Rest" as translated here from the Greek text is # 2663 in Strong's Greek dictionary, "Katapausis, kat-ap'-ow-sis, reposing down, i.e. abode." "Repose" is a place of resting where you are secure.Hebrews 4:9 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."The "rest" as used here is "sabbath", used differently then the rest used in prior verses. It is "#4520 in Strong's numbered Greek dictionary, "Sabbatismos, sab-bat-os-mos', a sabbatism, i.e. the repose of Christianity." "Repose" is a calm or peace that comes over you when you place all your trust in Christ. When you accept Christ, you are in Him, and He becomes your sabbath. Your work then of planting seeds of the Word is seven days a week, and there isn't one day set aside, but all days are set aside for Christ. You rest in Christ, because He is your rest. A day cannot bring you rest, only God can. Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His."When you have entered into the rest that is in Christ, then you cease from doing the sinful works of the flesh that is of the world. The focus of what you do is for the glory of God, not of your own self gratification, or worldly gain. Even the occupation that you have to gain a living becomes centered around letting others know about Christ, every part of your work becomes an act done to glorify God, and draw attention to Him. Before Christ entered your life, those worldly chores were a drudge, but after you learn to rest in Christ, those same tasks to earn a living for your family will seem so much easier. Hebrews 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, least any man fall after the same example of unbelief."The rest must follow the labor, or there will be no rest or peace of mind. Most preachers today are promoting the idea that (all you have to do is believe), but there is work that comes first, and that is in your study of God's Word. That is where we get our instruction from, and unbelief or confusion is cleared up.
 

Newcolors

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Kriss...Perhaps my questions above are a bit out of context with the title of this thread. But, it seems like you should be able to answer them quite easily. Anyway...since you mention the New Covenant quite a bit...perhaps the following questions would be more suitable to you and more in line with the context of this thread...(I already brought this up earlier in this thread)First...here is the Scripture which describes the "New Covenant"...Hebrews 8:8Behold the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—“not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more” Question Number 1According to Scripture....Who is the New Covenant given to?Question Number 2According to Scripture...Will everybody be keeping Torah or will we each be doing our own thing? A. Torah B. WhateverQuestion Number 3According to Scripture...Will we have to teach people to "know the Lord" when the New covenant is in full force or will "all know Him". Yes or NoQuestion Number 4Depending on your answer based upon Scripture for question 3...is the New Covenant in effect yet? Yes or NoSaved by grace alone... Newcolors"What then? Shall we SIN because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!Romans 6:15Definition of Sin...1John 3:4..."Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
 

Newcolors

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Kriss...I will continue to hang around for a while...but I am done with this thread. Thanks for putting up with me. I will let you have the last word!!God bless Newcolors
 

Christina

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1. Jews and Christians 2.everyone will be under Christ3.No everyone will know he is Lord4.yesI dont understand your problem with what Im saying we are to follow the Law however the Law was fulfilled in Christ our rest is in Christ we are Christians We are not to follow Torah in sacrifices ect. you wanna be a Jew under old law before Christ fulfilled it go ahead, Im a Christian if You don't get what fulfilled means fine stop trying to change my mind I have argued this a thousand times It does not help to pick and choose what verse you want to use and ignore or misinterpet others. Do not be as the Pharisee's Pharisees and Sadducees they were strict followers of the Law this is exactly what Christ was rebelling against. they didnt get it either. The day of rest was made for man who is man to rest in ? Christ is his Sabbathhttp://www.christianityboard.com/pharisees...ucees+Pharisees
 

Christina

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Kriss...I will continue to hang around for a while...but I am done with this thread. Thanks for putting up with me. I will let you have the last word!!God bless Newcolors
for heavens sake you can hang around as long as you like just because we disagree on a technicality doesn't mean we cant study together we both have a deep respect for the old testament and the Law because we differ on the meaning of law is not a problem for me and I hope not you. Just about everybody on here disagrees about something.
 

ncsojourner

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'The day will come,' says the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah . . . . But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,' says the LordThis is the Key statement here you must first understand who is whomto get this verse Judah is always toady's Jews that is the tribes of Judah Benjamin, and some Levite priestsWere in the South part of Israel in the days after the Crucifixion. And are always called Judah (the name of the largest tribe) in prophecy they are as I said the Jews of today.The other 10 northern tribes went North over the Caucus Mt into Scotland and Ireland, Britain and eventually became the Christian nations of Today When ever God uses the term like this and Says Judah and Israel he is talking ALL Israel that is All 12 tribes that is Jew and ChristianSo what he is saying here is All 10 tribes (Christians)and 2 Jewish tribes (Judah) Are included so this is ALL CHRISTAINS AND ALL JEWS are included in this New Covenanthttp://www.christianityboard.com/judaha-sc...ight-t6118.htmlRemember when reading prophecy and scripture we must always rightly divide who is whom Judah= todays Jews,Israel =All 12 tribes (Jew & Christain)...................Jospeh=Ephraim & Mannash = Britan & US=Christain Nations =10 Tribes (called 10 lost tribes)These are the two sticks in Eze.37 that is the two branches of Jews and Christain God will reunite under Christ at his comingEze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Rightfully dividing the word of God you are not. To give Judah to the Jews isnothing short of blasphemy.In the Old Testament Scriptures, God’s chosen people were known as Israelites and later on as the house of Israel and the house of Judah/Jews. The Israelites were the ones “to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises.” (Romans 9:4) Yet Paul tells us in Romans 9:6-8, “They are not all Israel which are of Israel. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, in Isaac shall thy seed be called.” He goes on to explain, “That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.” (Romans 9:6-8) The promise in Genesis was given to Abraham “because thou hast obeyed my voice.” (Gen 22:18; 26:4) Today’s Jews, as far back as 700 BC, have not obeyed God’s voice, but have rejected and cursed Christ and make a mockery of the teachings of the Bible. 2 Kings 17:19 Also Judah kept not the commandments of the LORD their God, but walked in the statutes of Israel which they made. If there is any doubt in your mind as to how morally reprehensible Judah was, just read II Kings 16:7-18 for starters.The Old Testament prophets spoke and wrote infallibly. They foresaw this group called Israel and Jew and knew they would not be the rightful heirs of Abraham. Isaiah said to the true heirs of Abraham in Isaiah 62:2, "And the nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name, Which the mouth of the LORD will designate. In Isaiah65:15 we read, ".…and you shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall call his servants by another name.” Although God changed the name of His chosen ones once, He will never do so again, for He said of this new name, “I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.” (Isaiah 56:5)What is this new name that the NT scriptures reveal? One thing for certain, it can NOT be Jew. Jew is an old name, not a new one. What is the new name?When the Messiah, Jesus the Christ, came, Abraham’s true children welcomed Him, and received Him as their Saviour. John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. The Pharisee Jews rejected and crucified Him.One of the biggest lies believed by modern day Christians is that the Jews, asyou know them today, missed the coming of Jesus the Christ, the Son of God.This is a blatant lie, for in Matthew 28:11-15 we read where the chief priests conspired and then covered it up. Matthew 28:11-15 Now when they were going, behold, some of the watch came into the city, and shewed unto the chief priests all the things that were done. 12 And when they were assembled with the elders, and had taken counsel, they gave large money unto the soldiers, 13 Saying, Say ye, His disciples came by night, and stole him away while we slept. 14 And if this come to the governor's ears, we will persuade him, and secure you. 15 So they took the money, and did as they were taught: and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day. "This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians - that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible." Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser "Judaism and the Christian Predicament" (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1967) p. 59:Gary
 

Newcolors

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Kriss...I just had to return...Gary,Unbelievable. You say that "today's Jews, as far back as 700 BC have not obeyed God's voice but have rejected and cursed Christ and made a mockery of the teaching of the Bible". ?? In many cases you are right my friend...but not ALL! What about Paul? What about the disciples? What about the myriads of Jews who were zealous for Jesus and Torah in the book of Acts? What about the throngs of Jews who were choosing their Passover Lamb in Messiah Yeshua as He walked the road into Jerusalem years ago this very week? You are an anti-semitic (I won't say it) who knows neither the Scriptures nor the power of God to save His people. You have believed the lies of other great anti-semites like Martin Luther. Talk about not rightly dividing the word or God...Are you aware of the Gentiles role in "Christ'" crucifiction? Listen up.... Listen to my Master Himself describe your's and my peoples..."Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem,and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priest and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again." Matthew 20:18-19.So now, are you telling the world that you and your ancestors had nothing to do with the rejection of Messiah the first go around? Sure...You say the Jews make a mockery of the Bible? That's rich. Thanks to them we have the Bible. And talk about Mockery of the Word of God...one of the biggest reasons Jews won't accept "Jesus" (which is not His name by the way) is that they hear Christians teach about Jesus and how He supposedly did away with the commandments of God contrary to Jesus's own words! This would make "Jesus" a false prophet...a false Messiah. So...who's fault is it that today very few Jews accept Jesus as Messiah? Could you and I have anything to do with it? Christianity needs to repent...badly. By the way....what were the nations around Israel doing in 2Kings? What was your great grand pappy doing? Studying Torah? Pull the log out of your own eye...Isaiah is talking about Israel....getting a new name does not change who you are. "And YOU shall be called by a new name". That does not change who YOU are.It always amazes me what I hear on Christian forums.Newcolors
 

Christina

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Well all I can say is this guy doesnt get it What is so hard to get about the two sticks of Eze 37? Few seem to able to look at the big picture. Sorry this guy was so rude and is wrong.God chose a people, he sent his Son to make a new Promise to his people,this divided his people, Some accepted the New promise some did not, God says he will bring all his people back to him under the new promise that is Jew and Christian. Whats so hard to get no replacement 2 joined as one. Its just currently we are in the time of the gentile. But God never will never leave behind the Jew to bad so few get this.
 

Jerusalem Junkie

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Kriss...I just had to return...Gary,Unbelievable. You say that "today's Jews, as far back as 700 BC have not obeyed God's voice but have rejected and cursed Christ and made a mockery of the teaching of the Bible". ?? In many cases you are right my friend...but not ALL! What about Paul? What about the disciples? What about the myriads of Jews who were zealous for Jesus and Torah in the book of Acts? What about the throngs of Jews who were choosing their Passover Lamb in Messiah Yeshua as He walked the road into Jerusalem years ago this very week? You are an anti-semitic (I won't say it) who knows neither the Scriptures nor the power of God to save His people. You have believed the lies of other great anti-semites like Martin Luther. Talk about not rightly dividing the word or God...Are you aware of the Gentiles role in "Christ'" crucifiction? Listen up.... Listen to my Master Himself describe your's and my peoples..."Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem,and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priest and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again." Matthew 20:18-19.So now, are you telling the world that you and your ancestors had nothing to do with the rejection of Messiah the first go around? Sure...You say the Jews make a mockery of the Bible? That's rich. Thanks to them we have the Bible. And talk about Mockery of the Word of God...one of the biggest reasons Jews won't accept "Jesus" (which is not His name by the way) is that they hear Christians teach about Jesus and how He supposedly did away with the commandments of God contrary to Jesus's own words! This would make "Jesus" a false prophet...a false Messiah. So...who's fault is it that today very few Jews accept Jesus as Messiah? Could you and I have anything to do with it? Christianity needs to repent...badly. By the way....what were the nations around Israel doing in 2Kings? What was your great grand pappy doing? Studying Torah? Pull the log out of your own eye...Isaiah is talking about Israel....getting a new name does not change who you are. "And YOU shall be called by a new name". That does not change who YOU are.It always amazes me what I hear on Christian forums.Newcolors
Bringing together Judaism and Christianity is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline. Strides have been made on both sides of the fence as fas as coming to some type of agreement. But they are both so different that there will never be a complete understanding on either side. But I do agree with a lot of what you said..........
 

Christina

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Its not supposed to come together yet thats the point this is the time of the gentile the Jew/Hebrew had the first part the gentile the second not until Christ returns will he reunite both sticks.
 

ncsojourner

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Newcolors;45892]Kriss...I just had to return...“Unbelievable. You say that "today said:
*this very week”[/b] “What about the throngs of Jews who were choosing their Passover Lamb in Messiah Yeshua as He walked the road into Jerusalem years ago *this very week*? “ For those that do not understand, *this very week* is in reference to what the Jews believe to be the true Biblical day of the Jew passover; which they believe to be this week (Sat. 19th). The Jew passover is all most a month later than the Christian passover/Easter this year. Which one is correct? Well, Christians, your day for the passover, this year, was incorrect. But, the Jews, the ones you consider as being “God’s chosen people”, those that you consider as being beyond faultless, well, they don’t have the correct day either. In fact, these Jews, even at the time of Christ, didn’t have the correct day! The true Biblical passover, this year, would have been from 12:00 PM April 1, 2008 to 12:00PM April 2, 2008.The proof of this is found in God’s breathed word. Two of God’s breathed scriptures to keep in mind are, …that it is impossible for God to lie, Hebrews 6:18; and,…God is not a God of confusion, 1 Co 14:33;It is beyond question that Jesus the Christ, our Lord and Savior, went to the cross sinless. For that very reason we can prove that the Jews, at the time of Christ, and, of the present day, have been led to believe a lie and are definitely NOT God’s chosen people. 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.Our Lord and Savior came to Jerusalem, knowing that the scriptures, prophesying his crucifixion, would be fulfilled in the next 24 hours. What did Jesus the Christ do? It goes with out saying that He kept His perfect law (Psalm 19:7-11). This perfect law just happens to include His laws concerning the celebration of passover given to the Israelites at the Exodus. The Israelites Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ, ate the Biblical passover one day before the Jews celebrated their passover!Luke 22:7-16 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. 8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat. 9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare? 10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in. 11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples? 12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready. 13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover. 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. cf. Mt 26:18-21;John 18:28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover. cf. Mark 15:1-6Just from these few passages it is very clear that the Jews, at the time of Jesus the Christ and the Jews known today as “God’s chosen people”, do NOT have God’s perfect law. Psalm 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned:Where does the discrepancy come from? Why were they one day apart?Abib is the Israelites first month of the new year. (Ex 12:2)Nisan is the Jews first month of the new year. (Es 3:7)Abib is solar. Nisan is lunar.Abib is from God. Nisan is from Babylon.The first of Abib and the first of Nisan can never be on the same day. The closest they could ever be would be one day apart and that would happen only when the new moon immediately followed the vernal equinox. In such a case, the first of Abib would be the next day (the day after the new moon). The furthest apart they could be would be thirty days. Most Bible students and commentaries erroneously claim that Abib and Nisan are just two different names for the exact same month. This is totally incongruous. The fact that they are different explains why Jesus the Christ had the passover on a different day than did the Jews. Some say that Jesus the Christ ate the passover early. This would have been a violation of our God’s Perfect Law, which we know He did not desecrate. He ate it earlier than the Jews because He ate it on the 14th of Abib, which is based on the solar calendar and the Jews ate it on the 14th of Nisan which is based on the lunar calendar.How to calculate the 1st of Abib.The first of Abib falls on the vernal equinox.How to calculate the 1st of NisanThe 1st of Nisan falls on the 1st day after the first sliver of the new moon after the vernal equinox.But that isn’t it in its entirety….and don’t forget 1 Co 14:33 while you read.The Jewish calendar is based on the lunar year, with each month beginning on the new moon. Rosh Chodesh, the first of the month, begins when the first sliver of moon becomes visible after the dark of the moon. The problem with strictly lunar calendars is that there are approximately 12.4 lunar months in every solar year, so a 12-month lunar calendar loses about 11 days every year and a 13-month lunar gains about 19 days every year. The months on such a calendar "drift" relative to the solar year. On a 12 month calendar, the month of Nissan, which is supposed to occur in the Spring, occurs 11 days earlier each year, eventually occurring in the Winter, the Fall, the Summer, and then the Spring again. To compensate for this drift, an extra month was occasionally added: a second month of Adar. The month of Nissan would occur 11 days earlier for two or three years, and then would jump forward 29 or 30 days, balancing out the drift. In the fourth century, Hillel II established a fixed calendar based on mathematical and astronomical calculations. This calendar, still in use, standardized the length of months and the addition of months over the course of a 19 year cycle, so that the lunar calendar realigns with the solar years. Adar II is added in the 3rd, 6th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and 19th years of the cycle. The new year that began Monday, September 25, 1995 (Jewish calendar year 5756) was the 18th year of the cycle. Jewish year 5758 (beginning October 2, 1997) was be the first year of the next cycle. In addition, Yom Kippur should not fall adjacent to a Shabbat, because this would cause difficulties in coordinating the fast with the Shabbat, and Hoshanah Rabba should not fall on Shabbat because it would interfere with the holiday's observances. A day is added to the month of Heshvan or subtracted from the month of Kislev of the previous year to prevent these things from happening. Numbering of Jewish YearsThe year number on the Jewish calendar represents the number of years since creation, as calculated by adding up the ages of people in the Bible back to the time of creation. The "first month" of the Jewish calendar is the month of Nissan, in the spring, when Passover occurs. However, the Jewish New Year is in Tishri, the seventh month, and that is when the year number is increased. The Jewish calendar has different starting points for different purposes. Months of the Jewish YearMonth Length Gregorian EquivalentNissan 30 days March-AprilIyar 29 days April-MaySivan 30 days May-JuneTammuz 29 days June-JulyAv 30 days July-AugustElul 29 days August-SeptemberTishri 30 days September-OctoberHeshvan 29 or 30 days October-NovemberKislev 30 or 29 days November-DecemberTevet 29 days December-JanuaryShevat 30 days January-FebruaryAdar 29 or 30 days February-MarchAdar II 29 days March-AprilIn leap years, Adar has 30 days. In non-leap years, Adar has 29 days. The length of Heshvan and Kislev are determined by complex calculations involving the time of day of the full moon of the following year's Tishri and the day of the week that Tishri would occur in the following year. Note that the number of days between Nissan and Tishri is always the same. Because of this, the time from the first major festival (Passover in Nissan) to the last major festival (Sukkot in Tishri) is always the same.The above proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Jews at the time of Jesus the Christ didn’t not have God’s perfect law. For you to continuecalling an antichrist, God’s chosen people is blasphemy."This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians - that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible." Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser "Judaism and the Christian Predicament" (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1967) p. 59:Gary