Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Is have read that chapter every which way from Sunday...I cannot make it say what you say that it is saying!!

1 Cor. 3
5 ( Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? )
All of us have ministers who ministered to us..AND we all have ( or should have,) preached to others.
6 ( I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth;( anything) but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour." )
We "receive " what we have done with the talents/ truth/ wisdom ..that God has given us. Talking about US , not about some other ministry...we ARE the ministry...or darn well should be.

((9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. ) Was Paul part and parcel of that building? Of course he was! So are each one of us.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, ( of those church groups) and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.) Wherever in the world he himself is labouring for the Lord. There is no exemption here...we cannot ever say .."They" are the ministers ..we are not , we are just their building. No where does Paul say that..." Every joint supplieth" One body.

I agree that "to whom much is given , much will be required"...but we have all been "given much" We are rich with knowledge and teaching..

I feel you want to read something into 1 Cor 3 which is not there.
Everyman's works will be tried and tested by fire...

It seems to me that YOU are reading into what is written.
Just look at number 9:
This is what you wrote:

****((9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. ) Was Paul part and parcel of that building? Of course he was! So are each one of us.****

Paul is clearly saying that he and Apollos are laborers together with God, and WE are God's husbandry or building.

YOU have ADDED that Paul is part of the building..
Where does it say this??

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
@GodsGrace

Why do you keep separating "ministers" from "us"?

Jesus always spoke to His disciples...when did we stop being His disciples? "Ye are the salt of the earth" " You are the light on a hill"

We are one body..we are ALL called to be His workmen...
2 Cor 5 20 "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ..". ...not just the "ministry." We are all called to minister the good news.
Why do you say " We are not the workers"....

It's not Jesus speaking here. It's Paul explaining how ministers are to continue building on what he started.

We are a holy priesthood, we are one body, we are ambassadors for Christ.

So we will be held to the same standards as ministers, priests, pastors, missionaries? The bible says no.
James 3:1...

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Well, as you can see from my other two posts to you also..
I cannot agree with your interpretation of scripture. And I do not and cannot divide ourselves from the ministers...
The way you say it , it sound like all responsibility is on them...and only they will be tried by fire to test their works.
In fact , your posts have me quite bemused , I can't see how you come up with some of these things.

So....we will just have to disagree on this subject.

Bless you....Helen

I come up with these things because it's what theologians teach.
I don't interpret scripture, they do.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(5) The Apostle now proceeds to explain (1Corinthians 3:5-9) what is the true position and work of Christian ministers. He asserts that all alike—both those who teach the simpler truths, and those who build up upon that primary knowledge—are only instruments in God’s hand; and in 1Corinthians 3:10-15(replying to those who sneered at and despised his simple teaching as compared to the higher instruction of Apollos) he points out that though all are only instruments used by God, yet that if there be any difference of honour or utility in the various kinds of work for which God so uses His ministers, the greater work is the planting the seed, or the laying the foundation. There can be only one foundation—it is alike necessary and unvarying—many others may build upon it, with varied material and with different results.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
3:5-9 The ministers about whom the Corinthians contended, were only instruments used by God. We should not put ministers into the place of God. He that planteth and he that watereth are one, employed by one Master, trusted with the same revelation, busied in one work, and engaged in one design. They have their different gifts from one and the same Spirit, for the very same purposes; and should carry on the same design heartily. Those who work hardest shall fare best. Those who are most faithful shall have the greatest reward. They work together with God, in promoting the purposes of his glory, and the salvation of precious souls; and He who knows their work, will take care they do not labour in vain. They are employed in his husbandry and building; and He will carefully look over them.

Meyer's N.T. Commentary
1 Corinthians 3:5-15. Discussion of the position occupied by the two teachers: The two have no independent merit whatsoever (1 Corinthians 3:5-7); each will receive his reward according to his own work (1 Corinthians 3:8-9); and, more especially, a definitive recompense in the future, according to the quality of his work, awaits the teacher who carries on the building upon the foundation already laid (1 Corinthians 3:10-15). The aim this discussion is stated in 1 Corinthians 4:6.

And so they all go....They are all agreed because THIS is what 1 Corinthians is speaking about...Not OUR works, but the works of ministers and how they teach and continue to build on the building Paul has already begun.

source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_corinthians/3-5.htm

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

Episkopos said:
I leave you to read it as you see it.

LOL
I leave you to misunderstand it !

brakelite · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
It's not Jesus speaking here. It's Paul explaining how ministers are to continue building on what he started.

We are a holy priesthood, we are one body, we are ambassadors for Christ.

So we will be held to the same standards as ministers, priests, pastors, missionaries? The bible says no.
James 3:1...

We will be held accountable for the response we make to what light we receive... This pertains to those in the pews and much as to those in the pulpit. The more light, the more responsibility. It seems to me though that those who are elders and deacons and pastors etc., For the most part are in those positions because they have responded to that light positively, and have a burden to share the light with others. Those in the pews perhaps have the very same opportunities and the same scriptures, this receive the same light, but are still languishing in the pews, so have not responded to the light therefore may come under more condemnation than those using their gifts as best they can. Just a different perspective... Not a general rule... The are always exceptions.

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

Nancy said:
The foundation of Christ can be the only foundation to build upon. Do not other followers of Christ build on this foundation? Not just Teachers and preachers whom, yes, I agree will have their false teachings and self-glorification burnt up, the Church is built up of many whom lay good or bad materials. Are not Christians to make disciples out of others? Are we not also called the building stones of the Church? My take is that either we lead others to Christ, knowingly or not, or we do NOT lead others to Christ. Good/bad works/fruit? This is obviously my opinion of these scriptures and a few others. It's not as important to me really, as learning to Love Him mightily!! lol.

If we really want to get into this, let's do it.
You say other followers of Christ build on this foundation.
Do they do a good job of it? Do we edify each other? Do we tear each other down?

There's a new Christian with many questions. Do we have all the answers?
Are we ultimately responsible for his growth and understanding of Christianity?
Do YOU trust yourself to always be in the mood and disposed to grow a Christian brother? Are we ultimately responsible or are our ministers responsible?

I see some come onto these forums looking for help and they're told they don't have enough faith...or they didn't pray properly, or who knows what other bad advice they're given. Ministers study for years to do what they do. WE don't.

I know what discipleship is. We become disciples and then we're to disciple others and so it goes. Do we do a good job of it? We can't even agree if man is a dichotomy or a trichotomy in nature. We can't even agree on what some verses mean that are staring us in the face.

I may not agree with all his doctrine, but I'll go to a pastor or a priest any day over another Christian. They DO know a lot more, whether we want to admit it or not. I think it's rather proudful to say we know enough and put ourselves on their level.

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

Enoch111 said:
1. First Paul calls all Christians God's building: For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. (1 Cor 3:9). Here is where the transition occurs.

2. Then he connects (in Ephesians) the foundation of Christ (the chief Cornerstone) to the foundational pillars of the apostles and prophets (all are found in, and limited to, the writings in Scripture):

EPHESIANS 2
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

3. Then he shows us (in Ephesians) that apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are given to the Church (God's building) to equip the saints for the work of the ministry:

EPHESIANS 4
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting [equipping] of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Enoch, we're discussing 1 Corinthians 3:5-17
Where in THESE verses is the transition from Paul and Apollos to US, the believers??

We need other scripture when supporting a doctrine or idea...
here we're trying only to understand these specific verses; all that is needed is context.

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

Enoch111 said:
Not sure if you are referring to N.T. Wright, but you have just listed a bunch of false teachers. Beware of false teachers, false prophets, and false apostles.

Yes, I'm referring to N.T. Wright.

I chose one from each category of Christianity:
Catholic
Protestant
Reformed

So now you're saying to beware false teaches...which is what 1 Corinthians is speaking about...incorrect doctrine or "works".

You may not agree with the 3 I've chosen, but you can't deny that they know A LOT more than any of us here do unless one of us has a PhD after his name...in theology.

I was stating that we SHOULD respect those that know more.
This is a problem I have with protestantism...we all want to be our very own theologian.

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
Sorry that is rubbish. Where in Matt 28 does Jesus say, pastors, misionaries etc.
In Acts when Christians are driven out of Jerusalem, we read that these ordinary people 'gosiped' the gospel.
Priests, all christians are a royal priesthood.

It is all of us who have the responcibility/duty to talk about what and why we believe.

If you've been reading along, you'll know what I believe about your post.

In Mathew 28:16-20 Jesus is speaking to the APOSTLES.
16But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Jesus gave the keys to the Kingdom to one man:
Mathew 16:19
19“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Can we individually bind and loose? No!

bbyrd009 · Aug 27, 2018

Jun2u said:
I feel like Elijah who was alone against the 450 Baal worshipers.

oh, i guess pretty much everyone does, esp in America. It's...Terminal Uniqueness, i dunno if it comes from patting oneself on the back too much or what; i prolly got it too i guess
i didn't mean to be quite so evil there, but really, yikes, ok.

Jun2u said:
It is a matter of knowing how God wrote and how to understand the Bible.

well, i dunno if knowing is the best goal or not, but understanding i like, and you certainly seem knowledgeable enough to consider interpreting dialectically J2. Now a problem maybe is that you suddenly will not know as much, and it is a struggle for a logician i won't lie, but @ 1 year i can say the payoff in understanding is well worth it.

VictoryinJesus · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
Could you please tell us who or what you believe is being burned up in the following verses...

1 Corinthians 3:8-15

8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Who or what is the fire burning? you asked a question and of course this is just an opinion. Consider Paul(inspired the Holy Spirit) gives us a glimpse in 1 Corinthians 13:1-13. For the longest time I inserted Christ at the center of this passage and was convinced ONLY Christ could be love. But we are of Christ's body. Now the perspective has changed to: if we are not growing (making movement) into 1 Corinthians, one needs to examine if they are truly His.

"Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident" What is to be burned in bold. What is remain in red. (John 6: 63) "It is the spirit that quickenth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

1 Corinthians 13:1-13
[1] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. [8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. [11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a (man), I put away childish things. [12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. [13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

When was the fire kindled?

Helen · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
I come up with these things because it's what theologians teach.
I don't interpret scripture, they do.

OUCH!! And right THERE...we have the answer!!!!!!!

I personally do not trust in man.

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
OUCH!! And right THERE...we have the answer!!!!!!!

I personally do not trust in man.

LOL
And then how do you trust yourself?
Are you not a Man?

Enoch111 · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
You may not agree with the 3 I've chosen, but you can't deny that they know A LOT more than any of us here do unless one of us has a PhD after his name...in theology.

The problem is not with knowing more but whether that knowledge reflects true Bible doctrine or not. There are many bogus Christians claiming to be scholars and theologians, but by their fruits ye shall know them.

Enoch111 · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
Enoch, we're discussing 1 Corinthians 3:5-17
Where in THESE verses is the transition from Paul and Apollos to US, the believers??

How did you miss it? "Ye are God's building" is firstly addressed to the Corinthians and secondly to all Christians. And one cannot isolate one passage from the rest of Scripture to grasp what is being said. When Paul says "we are laborers together with God" that includes all Christians.

faithfulness · Aug 27, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Who or what is the fire burning? you asked a question and of course this is just an opinion. Consider Paul(inspired the Holy Spirit) gives us a glimpse in 1 Corinthians 13:1-13. For the longest time I inserted Christ at the center of this passage and was convinced ONLY Christ could be love. But we are of Christ's body. Now the perspective has changed to: if we are not growing (making movement) into 1 Corinthians, one needs to examine if they are truly His.

"Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident" What is to be burned in bold. What is remain in red. (John 6: 63) "It is the spirit that quickenth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

1 Corinthians 13:1-13
[1] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. [2] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. [3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor , and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. [4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, [5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; [7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. [8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. [11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a (man), I put away childish things. [12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. [13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

When was the fire kindled?

The way I'm wired, I want to thank you for the patience and time it took for this format/emphasis!
Waiting on the Lord...

Helen · Aug 27, 2018

Enoch111 said:
The problem is not with knowing more but whether that knowledge reflects true Bible doctrine or not. There are many bogus Christians claiming to be scholars and theologians, but by their fruits ye shall know them.

Amen!!!

Psalms 118:8 - " It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

Micah 7:5 - "Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide..

Jeremiah 17:5 - "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man......"

Psalms 118:9 - "It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes."

ETC.....

Helen · Aug 27, 2018

brakelite said:
We will be held accountable for the response we make to what light we receive... This pertains to those in the pews and much as to those in the pulpit. The more light, the more responsibility. It seems to me though that those who are elders and deacons and pastors etc., For the most part are in those positions because they have responded to that light positively, and have a burden to share the light with others. Those in the pews perhaps have the very same opportunities and the same scriptures, this receive the same light, but are still languishing in the pews, so have not responded to the light therefore may come under more condemnation than those using their gifts as best they can. Just a different perspective... Not a general rule... The are always exceptions.

....

Helen · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
YOU have ADDED that Paul is part of the building..
Where does it say this??

Oh come on.

All of the blood-washed sons of God are part of the Building!!
All that are The Called....
That is obvious from Acts - Revelation....

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

Enoch111 said:
The problem is not with knowing more but whether that knowledge reflects true Bible doctrine or not. There are many bogus Christians claiming to be scholars and theologians, but by their fruits ye shall know them.

And who's to decide what true bible doctrine is?
Us?
We can't even decide what 1 Corinthians means and I've posted commentaries and even one from Mathew Henry!

I agree that by their fruits we shall know them.
But, for instance, I don't care for Calvinism, and yet I respect those that go to reformed churches because they desire to live a life for God and their Christianity shows. I can't say this about all Christians.

Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

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