Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

Enoch111 said:
How did you miss it? "Ye are God's building" is firstly addressed to the Corinthians and secondly to all Christians. And one cannot isolate one passage from the rest of Scripture to grasp what is being said. When Paul says "we are laborers together with God" that includes all Christians.

Ye are God's building. OK.
All Christians are God's building. OK. It says this in verse 16. We are the temple of God.

BUT
"We are laborers together with God",,,here you're adding to scripture.
Paul was saying that HE and APOLLOS are laborers for God.

Of course we all are....but it is not stated in 1 Corinthians 3 because this is not what Paul was teaching. He was teaching that ministers work for God, to build on the foundation, which is Christ and which is the foundation of the bldg of the believer -- the believer is the bldg.

He's saying that those who build as wise builders will be rewarded and those who do not will be saved but as through fire. He's speaking about doctrine and how believers are taught.

We are the building.
Ministers continue to build on the building.

bbyrd009 · Aug 27, 2018

brakelite said:
We will be held accountable for the response we make to what light we receive... This pertains to those in the pews and much as to those in the pulpit.

ah wadr i would be looking someplace entirely different for received light
you can't serve two masters, so neither can they right

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Oh come on.

All of the blood-washed sons of God are part of the Building!!
All that are The Called....
That is obvious from Acts - Revelation....

We're not discussing Acts or Revelation.

I guess you can't answer my simple question.

WHERE is the transition between Paul speaking about him and Apollos and then saying WE are the workers?

(there isn't one).

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

brakelite said:
We will be held accountable for the response we make to what light we receive... This pertains to those in the pews and much as to those in the pulpit. The more light, the more responsibility. It seems to me though that those who are elders and deacons and pastors etc., For the most part are in those positions because they have responded to that light positively, and have a burden to share the light with others. Those in the pews perhaps have the very same opportunities and the same scriptures, this receive the same light, but are still languishing in the pews, so have not responded to the light therefore may come under more condemnation than those using their gifts as best they can. Just a different perspective... Not a general rule... The are always exceptions.

This is an interesting thought. I wonder if I've understood you.

You're absolutely right... the more light we have, the more responsible we'll be.
John 9:41
41Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."

But you also seem to be saying that those in the pews ALL missed their calling to preach or be pastors. Do you believe anyone could study and be a pastor?
I believe this is a gift,,,we all have a different gift.
1 Corinthians 12:4.....

Nancy · Aug 27, 2018

I hear nothing of the role of the Holy Spirit as our teacher, nor anything of the Bereans.
Acts 17:11
11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."
My belief is that we do have teachers, pastors etc. but IMHO scripture is the final authority and IF we truly ARE open to the Spirits teaching, He will teach us with understanding. I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks we as Christians place before ourselves-and one another UN- teach-ability. We become so cemented that we are no longer teachable. I think if we lived to 900 years old and walking with God, we would STILL be learning. jmo
PS-sry-derailed

brakelite · Aug 27, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
ah wadr i would be looking someplace entirely different for received light
you can't serve two masters, so neither can they right

Yes, sort of the point I was making. As Jesus said to His disciples, "
KJV Luke 22
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
We are all in this together, all serving the same Master. Both Minister and layman. It's a grave mistake to put the minister up on a pedestal and trust him implicitly for light and truth. A typical Catholic mistake and those of Catholic backgrounds have a hard job to break away from...

GodsGrace said:
This is an interesting thought. I wonder if I've understood you.

You're absolutely right... the more light we have, the more responsible we'll be.
John 9:41
41Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."

But you also seem to be saying that those in the pews ALL missed their calling to preach or be pastors. Do you believe anyone could study and be a pastor?
I believe this is a gift,,,we all have a different gift.
1 Corinthians 12:4.....

Not all are called to be pastors, but we are all called to be ministers. To our families, and our neighbours. Being ordained though doesn't set you above, not does it mean those not ordained rhavent a work to do.

bbyrd009 · Aug 27, 2018

brakelite said:
We are all in this together, all serving the same Master.

hmm

"like" the rest tho

brakelite · Aug 27, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
hmm

"like" the rest tho

Lol okay, maybe not all.

Helen · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
We're not discussing Acts or Revelation.

I guess you can't answer my simple question.

WHERE is the transition between Paul speaking about him and Apollos and then saying WE are the workers?

(there isn't one).

Everyone knows ( except you!

)

....That no one can take just one potion of scripture...and disregard the rest of the balance of the scriptures!!!!!

GodsGrace · Aug 27, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Everyone knows ( except you! )

....That no one can take just one potion of scripture...and disregard the rest of the balance of the scriptures!!!!!

Typical reaction BG...
When the answer is not known, some resort to personal insults, which is what you're doing right now.

I'm in good company, no problem.
Some are very set in their thinking and are unable to learn anything new.

I don't appreciate personal insults.
I'm here to discuss the Bible, I've already mentioned this once before.
You can't even understand this, let alone the discussion at hand.

BTW, you disregard "the rest of scripture" many times when you state your opinion.

Jun2u · Aug 27, 2018

GodsGrace said:
We're not discussing Acts or Revelation.
I guess you can't answer my simple question.
WHERE is the transition between Paul speaking about him and Apollos and then saying WE are the workers?

(there isn't one).

There isn’t one because you are believing that only Paul and Apollos, and ministers, can do the work of God, therefore, you will NEVER understand Mat 28:19-20, which we all know as the “Great Commission” where all true believers were commanded by Jesus to send forth the Gospel throughout the nations of the world!

Jesus qualified all believers by pouring out His Spirit upon them. Acts 1:8 reads:

“But ye shall receive power (dunamis), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”

During Paul’s time it would have taken him years or never to reach even the known nations of the world at that time to bring the Gospel.

But today it is the greatest time ever to bring the Gospel into all the nations of the world, by travel with commercial airplanes, televisions, radios, missionaries, and so forth!

To understand this Great Commission we have to go back to Joel 2:28-29 which also culminated in Acts 2:16-18.

Key verse is 18, note the words “servants” and “handmaidens” Do you actually believe after reading this verse, only Paul and Apollos were given the task/work to “plant“and to “water” or “build?” All believers are builders!

Consider what Paul said:

Ro 10:16-18
16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who had believed our report?
17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18) But I say, have they not heard? Yes verily, their (believers) sound went into all the earth, and their (believers) words unto the ends of the world.

How wonderful and clarity is the word of God when we search Scriptures.

To God Be The Glory

GodsGrace · Aug 28, 2018

Jun2u said:
There isn’t one because you are believing that only Paul and Apollos, and ministers, can do the work of God, therefore, you will NEVER understand Mat 28:19-20, which we all know as the “Great Commission” where all true believers were commanded by Jesus to send forth the Gospel throughout the nations of the world!

Jesus qualified all believers by pouring out His Spirit upon them. Acts 1:8 reads:

“But ye shall receive power (dunamis), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”

During Paul’s time it would have taken him years or never to reach even the known nations of the world at that time to bring the Gospel.

But today it is the greatest time ever to bring the Gospel into all the nations of the world, by travel with commercial airplanes, televisions, radios, missionaries, and so forth!

To understand this Great Commission we have to go back to Joel 2:28-29 which also culminated in Acts 2:16-18.

Key verse is 18, note the words “servants” and “handmaidens” Do you actually believe after reading this verse, only Paul and Apollos were given the task/work to “plant“and to “water” or “build?” All believers are builders!

Consider what Paul said:

Ro 10:16-18
16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who had believed our report?
17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18) But I say, have they not heard? Yes verily, their (believers) sound went into all the earth, and their (believers) words unto the ends of the world.

How wonderful and clarity is the word of God when we search Scriptures.

To God Be The Glory

This is all very wonderful, unfortunately it does NOT apply to 1 Corinthians 3.

Jun2u · Aug 28, 2018

GodsGrace said:
This is all very wonderful, unfortunately it does NOT apply to 1 Corinthians 3.

So say you. I used the methodology prescribed by God Himself to compare scripture with scriptures and spiritual things with spiritual. Whereas, you read and critique the Bible like it’s an ordinary book instead of a spiritual book which God is the Author!!!

1 Corinthians 2:13-14
13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned.

Windmillcharge · Aug 30, 2018

GodsGrace said:
If you've been reading along, you'll know what I believe about your post.

In Mathew 28:16-20 Jesus is speaking to the APOSTLES.
16But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. 18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Jesus gave the keys to the Kingdom to one man:
Mathew 16:19
19“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Can we individually bind and loose? No!

The binding and loosening was a priestly function banning an activity or permitting an activity. It had and has no supernatural or miraculus function.

Jesus's command to go was given to the disciples, all eleven of them to pass on to their disciples to pass on to there disciples etc etc etc untill it reaches you and me.

GodsGrace · Aug 30, 2018

Windmillcharge said:
The binding and loosening was a priestly function banning an activity or permitting an activity. It had and has no supernatural or miraculus function.

Jesus's command to go was given to the disciples, all eleven of them to pass on to their disciples to pass on to there disciples etc etc etc untill it reaches you and me.

Yes W, I agree with all you've said.
It has nothing to do, however, with 1 Corinthians 3:5-17

These verses are speaking specifically to teachers.
What is being burned up is the teachings or doctrines of those who teach incorrectly.

There's a problem with this thread which is why I've pretty much abandoned it.
Either those reading along read these verses too quickly and understand them as I first did years ago,,, OR I'm not explaining myself correctly.

What we're doing is reading INTO these verses what we know as Christians...that we are all priests, that we are all called to witness, that we are all called to teach. I've spoken to this too, please see
post no. 161

Also, if you're interested, see post 146 and 143.

I cannot explain this any better and am not the type to go on forever like some men here are.

I do believe, however, that it's important to understand these verses since they are referred to many times in discussions. IF, some posters here are correct, MAYBE it IS speaking to purgatory, as the CC believes! I studied this because I left the CC and wanted to make sure about its different doctrine.

The binding and loosing was an authorized, priestly function...,my point is that not all of us have this authority, as some here would wish that we were all gifted with the same authority as priests, pastors, teachers, ministers, etc.

1stCenturyLady · Aug 31, 2018

BobRyan said:
1. The text never says that "a person" is burning.
2. The text says that the person's "work" is burning.
3. The "Master builders" ... the "workmen" are said to be "building the church with doctrine"

Conclusion. The doctrine is burning - bad doctrine removed as chaff...

Yes, I agree.

1 Corinthians 3 starts out with, "For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” which is the context of "ministries."

Though works of the flesh are sin, this chapter is not addressing sin, but doctrines, and following man, rather than Christ.

GodsGrace · Aug 31, 2018

1stCenturyLady said:
Yes, I agree.

1 Corinthians 3 starts out with, "For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” which is the context of "ministries."

Though works of the flesh are sin, this chapter is not addressing sin, but doctrines, and following man, rather than Christ.

Correct !
It's addressing Minister's that teach incorrect doctrine and do not properly build on us, who are the building built on the foundation, which is Christ.

Their work will be burned, but they will be saved.

Enoch111 · Sep 1, 2018

GodsGrace said:
It's addressing Minister's that teach incorrect doctrine and do not properly build on us, who are the building built on the foundation, which is Christ.

Since you are limiting the teaching of 1 Cor 3 to "ministers" repeatedly let's see if that is really the case, or whether there is a transition from the apostles and their companions (ministers) to ALL Christians.

THE CORINTHIANS SHOWN TO BE CARNAL
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not ableto bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

MINISTERS SHOWN TO BE "NOTHING"
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

EVERY "MAN" (CHRISTIAN) TO LEARN A LESSON
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

EVERY CHRISTIAN A FELLOW-LABORER WITH GOD
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

PAUL THE MASTERBUILDER OVERLAID THE FOUNDATION
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

CHRIST IS THE ONLY FOUNDATION FOR CHRISTIANS
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

"ANY MAN" MEANS ANY CHRISTIAN, NOT JUST MINISTERS
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

THE WORKS OF EVERY CHRISTIAN WILL BE JUDGED
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

CHRISTIANS ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

THE WISDOM OF THE WORLD IS FOOLISHNESS WITH GOD
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

LET NO MAN GLORY IN MEN (PUT MEN ON PEDESTALS)
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

ALL THINGS ARE OURS THROUGH CHRIST
22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

So it is crystal clear that Paul transitions from ministers to all Christians and how their works will be judged. Q.E.D.

GodsGrace · Sep 3, 2018

Enoch111 said:
Since you are limiting the teaching of 1 Cor 3 to "ministers" repeatedly let's see if that is really the case, or whether there is a transition from the apostles and their companions (ministers) to ALL Christians.

THE CORINTHIANS SHOWN TO BE CARNAL
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not ableto bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

MINISTERS SHOWN TO BE "NOTHING"
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

EVERY "MAN" (CHRISTIAN) TO LEARN A LESSON
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

EVERY CHRISTIAN A FELLOW-LABORER WITH GOD
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

PAUL THE MASTERBUILDER OVERLAID THE FOUNDATION
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

CHRIST IS THE ONLY FOUNDATION FOR CHRISTIANS
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

"ANY MAN" MEANS ANY CHRISTIAN, NOT JUST MINISTERS
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

THE WORKS OF EVERY CHRISTIAN WILL BE JUDGED
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

CHRISTIANS ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

THE WISDOM OF THE WORLD IS FOOLISHNESS WITH GOD
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

LET NO MAN GLORY IN MEN (PUT MEN ON PEDESTALS)
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

ALL THINGS ARE OURS THROUGH CHRIST
22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

So it is crystal clear that Paul transitions from ministers to all Christians and how their works will be judged. Q.E.D.

Hi Enoch,
Sorry I forgot about this post.

What does verse 17 mean to you?
Paul is saying that WE are the temple of God and if any man defile that temple God will destroy him. WHO can defile a temple but the person himself or a teacher or minister of his.

If a minister's works are not the best, like wood, hay and straw, the minister's works will be burned up. IF the minister brings heresies into the church, even HE might be burned up. N.T. writers warn of this:
Ezekiel 13:9
Mathew 16:11-12
2 Timothy 4:3-5
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Verse 10: Paul is the master builder but another man will build upon it..another builder and THAT MAN should beware how he builds upon US, the building. Verse 9 WE are God's building.

Of course, we also will be judged by our works --- and not everyone agrees with this --- but in this case Paul is speaking about ministers.

There is no transition.

Some commentaries might be helpful.

1 Corinthians 3:17 Commentaries: If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Nancy · Sep 3, 2018

Enoch111 said:
Since you are limiting the teaching of 1 Cor 3 to "ministers" repeatedly let's see if that is really the case, or whether there is a transition from the apostles and their companions (ministers) to ALL Christians.

THE CORINTHIANS SHOWN TO BE CARNAL
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not ableto bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

MINISTERS SHOWN TO BE "NOTHING"
5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

EVERY "MAN" (CHRISTIAN) TO LEARN A LESSON
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

EVERY CHRISTIAN A FELLOW-LABORER WITH GOD
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

PAUL THE MASTERBUILDER OVERLAID THE FOUNDATION
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

CHRIST IS THE ONLY FOUNDATION FOR CHRISTIANS
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

"ANY MAN" MEANS ANY CHRISTIAN, NOT JUST MINISTERS
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

THE WORKS OF EVERY CHRISTIAN WILL BE JUDGED
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

CHRISTIANS ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

THE WISDOM OF THE WORLD IS FOOLISHNESS WITH GOD
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

LET NO MAN GLORY IN MEN (PUT MEN ON PEDESTALS)
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

ALL THINGS ARE OURS THROUGH CHRIST
22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

So it is crystal clear that Paul transitions from ministers to all Christians and how their works will be judged. Q.E.D.

Great verses Enoch.

Who or What Is the Fire Burning?

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