Eternal Security

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1stCenturyLady

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None of this says the Ten Commandments are not written on our hearts. Of course the second greatest command is written on our hearts. That is because it is part of "Torah". So is the greatest commandment and the Ten.

Of course one who loves is not going to kill, dishonor parents, steal, lie or covet. The point is that the commament to love is greater than "thou shalt not" which still allows iniquity.
 

gadar perets

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The difference is the motivation. Your motivation is to obey the Law and please God. So you say you don't break the Law. Your righteousness is produced, which is filthy rags. The believer who walks in the Spirit, is not trying to obey the Law to please God, he is walking in the Spirit. As a result he does those things found in the Law. But he didn't do them to obey the Law. It was just a product of walking in the Spirit. Thus the righteousness of God is seen and not your own righteousness.

Stranger
I NEVER said I don't break the Law. My motivation to obey is love for my Heavenly Father. Love seeks to please. Do you seek to please your wife or children? Why? Because you love them. If you do not seek to please them, it is probably because you do not love them. The same holds true for loving YHWH.
 

gadar perets

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Where is belief on the name of Jesus in the Torah? Or is this just a Christian belief? If you deny Jesus, you don't have the Father either. So who is profoundly mistaken???
You are profoundly mistaken. 2 John 1:4 says, "I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father." So here is another command mentioned by John which was not mentioned in 1 John 3:23. Are you accusing me of denying Yeshua?
 

gadar perets

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Of course one who loves is not going to kill, dishonor parents, steal, lie or covet. The point is that the commament to love is greater than "thou shalt not" which still allows iniquity.
"Of course one who loves is not going to kill, dishonor parents, steal, lie or covet" or break the Sabbath.
All Ten Commandments are founded upon love. When obeyed, they demonstrate our love for YHWH and man.
 

Stranger

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Where is that written in scripture? That is another Reformation teaching lie.

Is someone freed from sin, still called a slave to sin?

God calls us saints.

I am surprised by your dishonesty. Are you telling me you do not sin?

Just because you are freed from slavery to sin, doesn't mean you don't sin.

Indeed, God calls us saints. Saints are nothing but saved sinners.

Stranger
 

Nancy

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The difference is the motivation. Your motivation is to obey the Law and please God. So you say you don't break the Law. Your righteousness is produced, which is filthy rags. The believer who walks in the Spirit, is not trying to obey the Law to please God, he is walking in the Spirit. As a result he does those things found in the Law. But he didn't do them to obey the Law. It was just a product of walking in the Spirit. Thus the righteousness of God is seen and not your own righteousness.

Stranger
Very well put!
 

Stranger

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I NEVER said I don't break the Law. My motivation to obey is love for my Heavenly Father. Love seeks to please. Do you seek to please your wife or children? Why? Because you love them. If you do not seek to please them, it is probably because you do not love them. The same holds true for loving YHWH.

If your motivation is not keeping the Law, then why are you trying to make others keep the Law?

Stranger
 

Nancy

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God allows us to sin because we have free will. This does not mean that it's His will that we sin.
God can use evil for good...
Genesis 50:20 This does not mean that He is happy when someone that claims to know Him sins. This is what quenches the Holy Spirit;
1 Thessalonians 5:19
We are told not to quench the Holy Spirit,,,not to sin because in any case God will use it for good !

We are not under the letter of the law...we are not slaves to God.
We are under the spirit of the law........we are friends of God.
But the law must still be maintained by us, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Then you say that if we are truly saved we will not break any law.
Does this mean you never sin? You seem to go from one extreme to the other.

I agree that following the Two Great Commandments will cover all the others,,,but, you see, Jesus DID want all the others to be covered; He just showed us how to do this --- with love. He did NOT say to forget about the law.
He said that if we love Him we will follow His commandments.
John 14:15
Refer to post #566.
 

1stCenturyLady

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You are profoundly mistaken. 2 John 1:4 says, "I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father." So here is another command mentioned by John which was not mentioned in 1 John 3:23. Are you accusing me of denying Yeshua?

Don't you understand what this is saying? Walking in truth is walking in Jesus. Believing on the name of His Son Jesus Christ IS from the Father. It is your belief that this is talking about the Ten Commandments that is so naive.
 

1stCenturyLady

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"Of course one who loves is not going to kill, dishonor parents, steal, lie or covet" or break the Sabbath.
All Ten Commandments are founded upon love. When obeyed, they demonstrate our love for YHWH and man.

One cannot love this way without the Holy Spirit. The Ten Commandments did not come with the Spirit, but the flesh. It exposed the flesh, and the sin found there. But we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit if we have the Spirit of God, and those who do not have the Spirit of Christ do not belong to Him. So you answer the question yourself.
 

1stCenturyLady

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I am surprised by your dishonesty. Are you telling me you do not sin?

Just because you are freed from slavery to sin, doesn't mean you don't sin.

Indeed, God calls us saints. Saints are nothing but saved sinners.

Stranger

I don't lie. Neither do I dishonor parents, kill, steal, commit adultery or covet. I don't even hate. Do you? I doubt it. As Christians those old carnal laws are easy not to commit. What we need to grow in are motives, not hating, growing the fruit of the Spirit.

There are two kinds of sins. 1 John 3 is talking about the sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4. Those are sins unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. It is the same as "the wages of sin is death." This type of sin is willful. They are in rebellion against God. They are of the heart and will. We choose to commit these sins, knowing full well they are against God's will for us. But as I just said, Christians find these not to their liking. It is not in the born-again nature to enjoy. But there again it is only Christians that have first repented and been baptized in the Holy Spirit. That is not automatic just because someone learns Jesus can keep them out of heaven. Just calling out "Lord, Lord" doesn't cut it. That is why Jesus said "I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness."

There is another type of sin which does not lead unto death. They are called trespasses, and are unwittingly committed, Leviticus 5:15. In the Lord's Prayer, we say, "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us." The Reformation would teach in ignorance that "sin is sin." These unknown sins (to us) are what 1 John 1:7 refers to that are automatically cleansed by the blood of Jesus as we walk in the Spirit. They are also the sins referred to in 1 John 2:1. Jesus is our advocate when we miss the mark unwittingly. Notice, no reference to repentance is written in that verse, thus they are not willful sins. But, even these trespasses John says we can overcome and not sin at all. But that takes constant walking in the Spirit and growing mature fruit of the Spirit. Unfortunately, most of the Church today is from this church age - Laodecia. Most Christians today are lukewarm and unrighteous, always having itching ears to find teachers that will tell them they are saved, instead of the truth. Jesus tells them to repent. He is still on the outside of the Church. But He is what they need.
 
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Enoch111

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There are many verses to show that OSAS is not true.
Would it not be extremely strange that after having planned for the redemption of sinners from before the foundation of the world, He would see His salvation come to nothing?

There are no such verses as you claim. And here's the proof:
I've asked many times for a verse that says we could live a life of sin and we will still be saved...but of course, this verse does not exist.

Well since the Bible teaches no such nonsense, why don't get a grasp of the truth about this matter? Who teaches such an absurd doctrine?
 

Stranger

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I don't lie. Neither do I dishonor parents, kill, steal, commit adultery or covet. I don't even hate. Do you? I doubt it. As Christians those old carnal laws are easy not to commit. What we need to grow in are motives, not hating, growing the fruit of the Spirit.

There are two kinds of sins. 1 John 3 is talking about the sins of lawlessness 1 John 3:4. Those are sins unto death. 1 John 5:16-17. It is the same as "the wages of sin is death." This type of sin is willful. They are in rebellion against God. They are of the heart and will. We choose to commit these sins, knowing full well they are against God's will for us. But as I just said, Christians find these not to their liking. It is not in the born-again nature to enjoy. But there again it is only Christians that have first repented and been baptized in the Holy Spirit. That is not automatic just because someone learns Jesus can keep them out of heaven. Just calling out "Lord, Lord" doesn't cut it. That is why Jesus said "I never knew you, you workers of lawlessness."

There is another type of sin which does not lead unto death. They are called trespasses, and are unwittingly committed, Leviticus 5:15. In the Lord's Prayer, we say, "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive them that trespass against us." The Reformation would teach in ignorance that "sin is sin." These unknown sins (to us) are what 1 John 1:7 refers to that are automatically cleansed by the blood of Jesus as we walk in the Spirit. They are also the sins referred to in 1 John 2:1. Jesus is our advocate when we miss the mark unwittingly. Notice, no reference to repentance is written in that verse, thus they are not willful sins. But, even these trespasses John says we can overcome and not sin at all. But that takes constant walking in the Spirit and growing mature fruit of the Spirit. Unfortunately, most of the Church today is from this church age - Laodecia. Most Christians today are lukewarm and unrighteous, always having itching ears to find teachers that will tell them they are saved, instead of the truth. Jesus tells them to repent. He is still on the outside of the Church. But He is what they need.

So, are you telling me that you do not sin?

Stranger
 

gadar perets

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If your motivation is not keeping the Law, then why are you trying to make others keep the Law?

Stranger
You are not reading my posts with understanding and so you keep twisting my words. I am motivated to obey the Law by LOVE for my Heavenly Father. I am trying to help you all understand how our Father is grieved by disobedience to His laws just like any earthly father would be grieved when his children do not obey him. Yeshua said to "go and sin no more". That means go and stop breaking the laws given by our Creator.
 

Stranger

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You are not reading my posts with understanding and so you keep twisting my words. I am motivated to obey the Law by LOVE for my Heavenly Father. I am trying to help you all understand how our Father is grieved by disobedience to His laws just like any earthly father would be grieved when his children do not obey him. Yeshua said to "go and sin no more". That means go and stop breaking the laws given by our Creator.

And I am trying to help you understand you are involved in an impossible task. The Law just finds you guilty. You can't keep it. So quit trying to make other people keep it.

Stranger
 

Enoch111

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If you continue in sin, you have no assurance whatsoever of eternal life.
Let's disabuse ourselves of all this nonsense.

1. Sinners are saved when they repent -- turn from sin and evil and idols.

2. Saints willingly and voluntarily submit to God and Christ in obedience.

3. The whole tenor of the Bible is to teach the saints to be righteous and do righteous deeds.

4. Along comes Satan and plants this idea that the saints will be living in sin. But he forgets to tell people that those who are living in sin are NOT saints but sinners. They were never converted.

5. If and when the saints sin, they are convicted by the Holy Spirit and brought to repentance.

6. If any saint persists in sin after that, THERE IS A SIN UNTO DEATH. That is not the loss of eternal life but premature death. And this warning should be sufficient for all the saints.

1 JOHN 5
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. [ETERNAL SECURITY]

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. [PREMATURE PHYSICAL DEATH FOR SINNING PERSISTENTLY]

17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. [SAINTS DESIRE RIGHTEOUSNESS]
 

gadar perets

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Don't you understand what this is saying? Walking in truth is walking in Jesus. Believing on the name of His Son Jesus Christ IS from the Father. It is your belief that this is talking about the Ten Commandments that is so naive.
I did NOT say 2 John 1:4 is talking about the Ten Commandments. I cited that verse to show you that John believed there were other commandments to obey than just the two in 1 John 3:23. We are to obey the command to walk in the truth. Yes, Yeshua is the truth, but thee are other truths besides Yeshua.

Psalm 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalm 119:151 Thou art near, O YHWH; and all thy commandments are truth.​