Can Satan create?

aspen said:

Do you believe that Satan can ‘create’ or is creating strictly an ability of God?

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VictoryinJesus said:

Consider all satan can create is something that already is or has already been, which means its (origin) cannot be Satan as creator. Sure he can build images of something already made. “False” idols. He can create(order)confusion of what already is. I would suggest no, Satan cannot create. I’m not even certain satan can tell time.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. [10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

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VictoryinJesus said:

I believe only God can read the mind of those... with the mind of Christ. Those with the mind of the son of perdition...don't they already have similar thoughts: hate, lie, cheat, steal, defraud brother, murder...maybe satan can read the mind of one that shares his same passions.

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GodsGrace said:

Hi H2S
How could you believe God created evil?
If God is all good, where is there room for evil?
ALL means all.

John said Good IS love.
1 John 4:8

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Harvest 1874 said:

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Isa 45:7 AV

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 AV

As usual poor translations tend to give the wrong impressions.

Where did evil originate? Is God the author of evil?

The word evil in the texts cited above has the meaning in the Hebrew language of adversity (calamity). These evils or calamities were sent upon the Jews as chastisements for their violation of the terms of the covenant, which they had made with the Lord. The evil here referred to was not evil in the sense of its being a wrong or a sin. Right and wrong, good and evil as principles have always existed and always will.

Principles are eternal. Sin was produced by the evil principle becoming active, and began with Satan who permitted evil to control and dominate his course of action. Satan introduced sin and evil into the world when he induced our first parents to disobey the Divine command. Thus the race has come under the dominion of sin and death supervised by Satan, the God (ruler) of this "present evil world." (2 Cor 4:4)

At the appointed time when the Lord shall again control earth's affairs, establishing his own kingdom in the earth, Satan is to be bound and eventually will be destroyed, while evil will gradually cease to be active until at the close of Christ's reign, when sin and evil in their various forms, suffering, and death, shall be no more. (Rev 21:3-5)

An example of how sin became an active principle with man is shown in the example of Cain.

“So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin (The spirit of Satan) lies at the door (Crouching, ready to spring into your heart at the next misstep). And it’s (Satan’s) desire is for you, but you should rule over it. Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.” Gen 4:6-8

Cain allowed anger, malice, hatred and strife to burn in his heart, and thus he became a murderer.

The following scripture proves conclusively that God is not the creator of evil.

“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.” Luke 6:43-45

“For God is not the author (the creator) of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” 1 Cor 14:33

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Harvest 1874 said:

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Isa 45:7 AV

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 AV

As usual poor translations tend to give the wrong impressions.

Where did evil originate? Is God the author of evil?

The word evil in the texts cited above has the meaning in the Hebrew language of adversity (calamity). These evils or calamities were sent upon the Jews as chastisements for their violation of the terms of the covenant, which they had made with the Lord. The evil here referred to was not evil in the sense of its being a wrong or a sin. Right and wrong, good and evil as principles have always existed and always will.

Principles are eternal. Sin was produced by the evil principle becoming active, and began with Satan who permitted evil to control and dominate his course of action. Satan introduced sin and evil into the world when he induced our first parents to disobey the Divine command. Thus the race has come under the dominion of sin and death supervised by Satan, the God (ruler) of this "present evil world." (2 Cor 4:4)

At the appointed time when the Lord shall again control earth's affairs, establishing his own kingdom in the earth, Satan is to be bound and eventually will be destroyed, while evil will gradually cease to be active until at the close of Christ's reign, when sin and evil in their various forms, suffering, and death, shall be no more. (Rev 21:3-5)

An example of how sin became an active principle with man is shown in the example of Cain.

“So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin (The spirit of Satan) lies at the door (Crouching, ready to spring into your heart at the next misstep). And it’s (Satan’s) desire is for you, but you should rule over it. Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.” Gen 4:6-8

Cain allowed anger, malice, hatred and strife to burn in his heart, and thus he became a murderer.

The following scripture proves conclusively that God is not the creator of evil.

“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.” Luke 6:43-45

“For God is not the author (the creator) of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” 1 Cor 14:33

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Heart2Soul said:

So....if God created Satan...with his beauty, his intellect and his emotions then would it be conceivable that God, being a just God, created that in him? Or did it just birth and create itself in the heart of Satan to be puffed up with pride and jealousy against His creator?
It really is a very deep subject...…
Satan could not create his own emotions...God created those in him.

IMHO....

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GodsGrace said:

We have to decide if God is all good or if there's some evil in Him.

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Heart2Soul said:

I think you are misunderstanding the whole picture here....God is not evil but He created all things....good and evil are polar opposites of each other as day and night and both must exist together to establish each other....like I said this is a very deep subject. I never ever said God was evil....so please don't try to put meaning into something that was not said...search the scriptures for yourself and make your own conclusions. With each comment I made I stated it was in my humble opinion....
The sin nature......what was God's purpose for putting a forbidden fruit tree in the Garden of Eden? How can God test our free will to choose to believe in Him and to be obedient to His commands except that He place something before us to see if we will obey or disobey?
But thank you for your thoughts on the matter and God Bless!

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VictoryinJesus said:

Consider it may be the definition of what is evil and what is good that man confuses.

Isaiah 5:20
[20] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Genesis 50:17-20
[17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him. [18] And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants. [19] And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? [20] But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

God is good. I’m never suggesting He is not. John 3:17 “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

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VictoryinJesus said:

Yes, God is always good. I believe it. I also believe man is the author of confusion and possibly we give satan way too much credit and acknowledgement. A few questions you maybe can help me understand better because I want to understand and not serve a false god I’ve created in my own mind. There is a difference between calamity and man’s evil deeds, yes. But is calamity not the incubator: travail, persecution, vestation, cursed ...bringing about a genuine agreement with God and a man turned from his own ways. Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

Can you answer who formed the weapon? Scripture said God created the waster to destroy. Is the weapon used by the “waster” not the flesh?

Psalm 88:4-7
[4] I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength: [5] Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. [6] Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. [7] Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.

1 Kings 11:14
[14] And the Lord stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom.

Exodus 32:14
[14] And the Lord repented of the evil(calamity)which he thought to do unto his people.

Revelation 16:9
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.—which had power over these plagues. Is it wise to give satan the glory by saying “satan is in control” rather than crying out to the one true God, Creator of all.

Revelation 9:20-21
[20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: [21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 3:19
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

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Harvest 1874 said:

First of all let us briefly examine your text; we included verse 16 as the two go together.

“Behold, I have created the blacksmith who blows the coals in the fire, who brings forth an instrument [weapon] for his work; and I have created the spoiler to destroy. No weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is from me,” Says the Lord.” Isa 54:16, 17

I believe Enoch111 has already explained to you whom the “spoiler” or “waster” is; it is indeed the “destroyer”, the Adversary, Satan himself.

“The “smith” is Satan. Just as the blacksmith heats a horseshoe until it is almost white hot, removes it from the fire, hammers and hammers and hammers it into shape, dips it in water, and nails it to the horse’s hoof, so the Church needs corresponding hot, cold, and hammering experiences. (This is also shown in the process of constructing the Golden Lampstand which was placed in the Holy of the Tabernacle). God has overruled that Satan is His minister in connection with the ministry of evil. Of course Satan tries to destroy God’s work and purpose, but with all of his persecutions and hammerings to denigrate God and His children, he is actually serving to develop the Church and perfect them for their future positions. The ministry of evil perfects the Church. As with Job, God allows testings of the consecrated, even to the core, but within predetermined parameters.

When God created Lucifer, he was perfect until the day iniquity was found in him (Ezek. 28:15). At the time of the Garden of Eden incident, Lucifer fell from his perfection. Since then God has used Satan as his hangman to unwittingly accomplish His purpose, and down through the centuries Satan has tried God’s people of both spiritual and natural Israel. Not only has natural Israel been disciplined by the Diaspora (the dispersion), but at the end of the age during Jacob’s Trouble He will purge natural Israel.

God “created [permitted] the smith [Satan].” In His providence God is so capable that He can do certain things without infringing upon the moral liberty of the individual(s) involved. In other words, God will set the stage without interfering with either human or angelic free moral agency. Stated another way, He knows in advance how people will react. An example is that of Pharaoh in the Exodus account, which God raised up to glorify His name. Verse 16 is saying that Satan will be used as a tool of God. Because God knows how Satan will react under certain conditions, that which God desires to get rid of will be taken care of by this agency. (“I have created the waster to destroy.”) Hence Satan’s extremes will ultimately result in good by developing both the Church and natural Israel.” (The Book of Isaiah)

You asked: Can you answer who formed the weapon? Scripture said God created the waster to destroy. Is the weapon used by the “waster” not the flesh?

Verse 16 states that it is the “smith” who brings forth the weapon for his work.

Verses 16 and 17 indicate a hard experience is coming (the hour of temptation), but it will not harm the feet members as new creatures. “No weapon formed against you [the new creature] shall prosper [prevail]…” Men can kill the body, but they can’t kill the new life which is in you.

I believe the “instrument” or “weapon” used by the Adversary can be in reference to any individual, group of individuals or agencies (whether animate and inanimate) which he might employ against the saints.

Often times we tend to look for deeper meanings in some things which are not there; this may well be the case with our text here.

If we simply take the text as it is given and don’t try to force anything upon it, it simply states that as the Lord is the creator of both the black smith who constructs the weapons of war, and of those who wage war he has power over both, neither of whom can harm you (the new creature). The flesh of course is whole different story, but then if you have fully consecrated yourself to the Lord, then you have already sacrificed your earthly life rights, and as such being placed upon the Lord’s altar they must be fully consumed, surrendered. “Be thou faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life”. (Rev 2:10) How that life is surrendered is not up to you or me.

The life to which we are justified by our faith in Jesus' ransom must be laid down, even as he laid down his life. (John 10:18) We cannot fully possess the new nature, the spirit nature until the human nature is entirely dissolved, dead.

As it is written,

“He who finds his life [who keeps hold of the life already consecrated to sacrifice] will lose it, and he who loses his life [surrenders his earthly life] for my sake will find it [i.e. Life much more abundant than that which is now possessed].” Matt 10:39

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Harvest 1874 said:

I believe Enoch111 has already explained to you whom the “spoiler” or “waster” is; it is indeed the “destroyer”, the Adversary, Satan himself.

“The “smith” is Satan. Just as the blacksmith heats a horseshoe until it is almost white hot, removes it from the fire, hammers and hammers and hammers it into shape, dips it in water, and nails it to the horse’s hoof, so the Church needs corresponding hot, cold, and hammering experiences. (This is also shown in the process of constructing the Golden Lampstand

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GodsGrace said:

How many definitions could there be of good and evil??
Good is good.
Evil is evil...we all know the definitions.

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aspen said:

Do you believe that Satan can ‘create’ or is creating strictly an ability of God?

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amadeus said:

We know men's definitions, but how well do we know God's?

God is alone is good according to Jesus: Mark 10:18

God is where ...the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days..." Isa 30:26 To the extent that we cannot look into that light without going blind, we come short of understanding what Good [God] really is.

So what is darkness? What is evil? Is it not where man moved when he disobeyed God? Man could no longer see anything looking toward God. The brightness of the Light made him completely blind:

"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." John 1:5

How blind are we? How good are our eyes? Has our vision improved since we first believed and received the Holy Ghost?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

And without vision, we perish. We have no Life in us: Prov 29:18

Who can now open his eyes and see the unfiltered, uncovered brightness of the sun without becoming blind?
Perhaps we still have growing to do:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

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