Outer Darkness

bbyrd009 · Sep 6, 2018

Nancy said:
I know nothing of The Cult Of Sol, except being a sun worshiper, lol.

oh, you are intimately acquainted with the cult of Sol, we just call it "Christianity" now.
It is why you go to congregation on Sunday, and why you worship Oester during Passover, etc
i did the same thing for most of my life
"Life, more abundantly" is not even anything most believers are interested in, near as i can tell,
and if you try to get one interested in it you will get cursed, blocked, deemd antichrist, etc

Nancy said:
So, why or how does one go to Hell "briefly"?

no one does lol, my meaning was that the explanation was brief, sorry. All go to the same place, as is made clear in many diff vv

bbyrd009 · Sep 6, 2018

Nancy said:
Ah yes, this is the one...and I see there has been no reply from HIH. I do not believe "Hell" is easily understood. There are those mentioned in scripture that will be whipped with many stripes and those who will be whipped with few. It is a huge study on it's own, to be deeply studied with a good Greek Lex. And I would use several bible trans. MPO is that there is indeed an eternal separation from God for those not in Christ though, not sure of what it will entail.

imo the same "darkness" being manifested in here, where you got 4-5 "believers" can't even address Scripture right now,
unless it fits with their imagination correctly. See no one will address post #133 either, Harvest's post, same concept basically.
wanna become invisible? just tell ppl a little bit of truth lol

and in my experience at least there will be no reply from HiH, who is most likely studiously avoiding this thread now too lol

bbyrd009 · Sep 6, 2018

Nancy said:
I do not believe "Hell" is easily understood.

imo it is only too easily misunderstood, by those who want to go to heaven. After they die, of course, not now.
Tomorrow is what it's all about with Christians, right

The basic concept is very plain imo, and also easily refuted by Scripture, many Scriptures,
no one has ever gone up except He Who came down,
all go to the same place
no one knows where they go when they die
(excepting believers of course, they know pretty much everything i guess)
on and on.
Of course this Good News for Life, more abundantly will not fill the coffers near as well as the cult of Sol thing i s'pose
ppl want immortality, and as far as they are concerned God just needs to get with the program i guess

aspen · Sep 6, 2018

Is jail Hell? Or is it just the place where Hell happens?

bbyrd009 · Sep 6, 2018

aspen said:
Is jail Hell? Or is it just the place where Hell happens?

ha, i love the comparison, as it at least might be considered closer to Gehenna. But of course in another perspective you got 3 hots and a cot, right, and no fire at all, so it's all relative i guess. Amador County jail in Cali is heaven, fwiw. So is Pitkin Co Colo, it's even co-ed!

Nancy · Sep 6, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
imo it is only too easily misunderstood, by those who want to go to heaven. After they die, of course, not now. Tomorrow is what it's all about with Christians, right

The basic concept is very plain imo, and also easily refuted by Scripture, many Scriptures,
no one has ever gone up except He Who came down,
all go to the same place
no one knows where they go when they die
(excepting believers of course, they know pretty much everything i guess)
on and on.
Of course this Good News for Life, more abundantly will not fill the coffers near as well as the cult of Sol thing i s'pose
ppl want immortality, and as far as they are concerned God just needs to get with the program i guess

BTW- you said:"imo it is only too easily misunderstood" I said: "I do not believe "Hell" is easily understood." Same thing, yes?

"Tomorrow is what it's all about with Christians" For some yes, not all, not for myself, for me it's moment by moment.

"...will not fill the coffers near as well as the cult of Sol thing i s'pose." All I know bout the Cult of Sol is "sungod", lol. I will presume you are talking about the money grubbing false teachers, preachers, Church's??

Taken · Sep 6, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
then why would He tell us to leave the world, do you think?

Speaking to people, the world is their habitat.
Bodies come out from their world. Souls come from God. A Converted man, has his soul restored, (from corruption "being in a corrupt body" ), and quickening a mans spirit...is a man becoming a man, NOT of this world.

God Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 · Sep 7, 2018

Nancy said:
"...will not fill the coffers near as well as the cult of Sol thing i s'pose." All I know bout the Cult of Sol is "sungod", lol. I will presume you are talking about the money grubbing false teachers, preachers, Church's?

anyone who has accepted the bid for immortality, or teaches that Jesus is returning soon, yes.
Iow what is now deemed "Christianity" basically, right
There is only one "immortal," and Christ never leaves us nor forsakes us.

bbyrd009 · Sep 7, 2018

Taken said:
Bodies come out from their world.

bodies come out from their world? Maybe you could rephrase this, as it seems to be the only line that addresses the post. Or could you rephrase "God creates worlds," one or the other? But i guess you are just using "world" more generically than me, no big deal

brakelite · Sep 7, 2018

1stCenturyLady said:
Granted what it is, is total separation from God.

No-one to my knowledge, has ever adequately explained how separation from the only source of life, doesn't result in an absence of life? AKA death.

brakelite · Sep 7, 2018

Episkopos said:
As Christians we don't hear too much about the "day of atonement". We see this as very Jewish. But not so. The day of atonement or Yom Kippour...has yet to take place. It is the judgment of the house of God.

Every feast has its NT counterpart which you alluded to. I agree that the DoA is a time of judgement for the house of God. But what concludes that judgement? Is it not the emerging of the High Priest from the sanctuary> Who is our High Priest? Is it not our Lord Jesus serving right now in the heavenly sanctuary and when He leaves that sanctuary will come to take His waiting people home? Therefore the DoA is taking place now, and when Jesus comes we will know our destiny...judgement has been concluded, all decisions for eternity made, the righteous saved and the unrighteous cut off. Sure such decisions as to who is saved and who is lost must be made before the High Priest exits the sanctuary? Before Christ comes? Before the angels come to harvest the earth? For then, must come the feast of tabernacles.

Taken · Sep 7, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
bodies come out from their world? Maybe you could rephrase this, as it seems to be the only line that addresses the post. Or could you rephrase "God creates worlds," one or the other? But i guess you are just using "world" more generically than me, no big deal

In Brief;

Heb 1:2
God made the WORLD(S)... By Christ Jesus.
1) which notifies us; there IS more than one World.
2) which notifies us; the worlds were made BY Gods WORD (Jesus) and
BY Gods Power (Christ).

Other Scriptures notify us;
1) There are particular "things" in the World(s) Christ Jesus made.
2) our world, has Earth (ie dry land), mts., valleys, visible skies, etc....
Also the Waters (deep seas/ oceans).
3) from our world, precisely the created Earth, is the precise material from which God Forms every Body, which is called, man-KIND.
4) in short; man-Kind, is a Kind of thing created out of its own created habitat/estate, (Earth).

Another World is called the Heavens;
The Heavens has;
1) The Supreme everlasting High Heaven, (3rd Heaven),which IS Gods Estate; pure Light without mark or Blemish of Darkness.
2) 2nd Heaven, created FOR The Estate of Gods HOLY created Angels.
3) the Lower Heavens ... visible To mankind, accessible to Holy and (some) Fallen angles, and mankind's eyes.

Another World; called the Under World. It also has precise Places and THINGS within this world....
(Called...Generally "hell", and more specifically , per particular languages and cultures; Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus, etc. as signifying a reference to those angels and mankind's Estate who Shall become permanently separated from their Lord God; Creator and Maker.
For fallen Angels...
And Fallen mankind...
Who Shall Lose Access To their First Estate, Because they Freely Chose To Reject their Lord God/ Creator and Maker.

In brief;
Gen 2:1
Gen 2:7
Deut 10:14
Job 35:5
2 Cor 12:2
Isa 14:9
John 8:23

God Bless,
Taken

Taken · Sep 7, 2018

brakelite said:
No-one to my knowledge, has ever adequately explained how separation from the only source of life, doesn't result in an absence of life? AKA death.

God creates...Vessels.
God Gives the Vessels Life...
And God Takes Away Life.

There are KINDS of created things which are Vessels called, Bodies of Flesh ie (man-KIND and Animal-KIND).

Their LIFE Is BLOOD, formed and made from Dust of their estate/habitat; i.e. earth.
Their LIFE Is Quickened, (ie brought into a Living state), via another Vessel that contains Life from God, called a soul (the vessel), Gods Life (His Breath), and IMPARTED into the Flesh Body, Via God blowing into the formed body's nostrils.

When God departs Life (blood) of the Vessel (called Flesh) the vessel dies, and returns to the earth. That body has thus fulfilled its sentence...
1) God requires the Life (blood) of Every flesh body.
2) Life (Blood)of the body that stops flowing, the body becomes dead, which IS a sentence that shall be accomplished by all of mankind and animalkind of created things.

When the vessel, (flesh) is dying, the vessel (soul) with Life (Gods Breath) departs out of the flesh body.

The remaining Living Soul with Gods Breath...goes to "another World" (a world other than this world).

The Living soul goes To:
Heaven, with God, from whence it came, or Hell, separated from God.
There in either place the living souls WAIT for their respective Judgement.

Living souls forever With God shall receive Rewards For their Works...and have some of their Works burned.
(Rewarded Works and burned Works are dependent upon IF the mans Works Glorified God or not).

Living souls in Heaven will forever retain (KEEP) Life from Gods Breath.

Living souls in hell shall have Gods Life (Breath) departed out of their souls.
Gods Life (Breath) shall return to God.
And the mans Body and soul destroyed.

God Bless,
Taken

amadeus · Sep 7, 2018

Taken said:
Speaking to people, the world is their habitat.
Bodies come out from their world. Souls come from God. A Converted man, has his soul restored, (from corruption "being in a corrupt body" ), and quickening a mans spirit...is a man becoming a man, NOT of this world.

God Bless,
Taken

Or the world, our habitat, which is often described in scripture is our body of flesh which contains that "...lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. [I John 2:16]. Remember what Jesus said about His world before He went to the cross?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

But for us he said that we were still in the world. Jesus and already overcome His world:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

When we overcome the last obstacle through the Holy Ghost in us, then we will also no longer be in the world. This speaks not I believe of planet Earth, but planet Taken or planet Amadeus.

Yes, He had overcome his little world , but he said to be of good cheer because he was going to make it possible for us to overcome our little world.

Jesus went to the cross not for himself because he was already without sin and he had already overcome all of his own temptations before he died physically. We must do the same and because Jesus paid the price and opened the Way and was to be followed by the Holy Ghost as per Acts chapter 2, we can. So then when we overcome then we can eat of the Tree of Life and be always with Jesus:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

Jay Ross · Sep 7, 2018

Taken said:
In Brief;

Heb 1:2
God made the WORLD(S)... By Christ Jesus.
1) which notifies us; there IS more than one World.
2) which notifies us; the worlds were made BY Gods WORD (Jesus) and
BY Gods Power (Christ).

Other Scriptures notify us;
1) There are particular "things" in the World(s) Christ Jesus made.
2) our world, has Earth (ie dry land), mts., valleys, visible skies, etc....
Also the Waters (deep seas/ oceans).
3) from our world, precisely the created Earth, is the precise material from which God Forms every Body, which is called, man-KIND.
4) in short; man-Kind, is a Kind of thing created out of its own created habitat/estate, (Earth).

Another World is called the Heavens;
The Heavens has;
1) The Supreme everlasting High Heaven, (3rd Heaven),which IS Gods Estate; pure Light without mark or Blemish of Darkness.
2) 2nd Heaven, created FOR The Estate of Gods HOLY created Angels.
3) the Lower Heavens ... visible To mankind, accessible to Holy and (some) Fallen angles, and mankind's eyes.

Another World; called the Under World. It also has precise Places and THINGS within this world....
(Called...Generally "hell", and more specifically , per particular languages and cultures; Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus, etc. as signifying a reference to those angels and mankind's Estate who Shall become permanently separated from their Lord God; Creator and Maker.
For fallen Angels...
And Fallen mankind...
Who Shall Lose Access To their First Estate, Because they Freely Chose To Reject their Lord God/ Creator and Maker.

In brief;
Gen 2:1
Gen 2:7
Deut 10:14
Job 35:5
2 Cor 12:2
Isa 14:9
John 8:23

God Bless,
Taken

Perhaps, the translation of Hebrews 1:2, has, IMHO, got it wrong, in that it is not speaking of "worlds," but rather of "ages." The Greek word αἰῶνας found in Hebrews 1 : 2 is also found used in the following New Testament references: - Luke 1:33, Romans 1:25, 9:5, 11:36, 16:27, 2 Corinthians 11:31, Galatians 1:5, Philippians 4:20, 1 Timothy 1:17, 2 Timothy 4:18, Hebrews 1:2, 11:3, 13:8, 13:21, 1 Peter 4:11, 5:11, Jude 1:25, Revelation 1:6, 1:18, 4:9, 4:10, 5:13, 7:12, 10:6, 11:15, 14:11, 15:7, 19:3, 20:10, 22:5.

If all of these occurrences of αἰῶνας predominately have the meaning of "ages" then perhaps the intended meaning in Hebrews 1 : 2 should also be "ages."

It seems to me that you have taken a fallible English translations for this verse and then built a misguided theology understanding around it.

Presently I do not have the time to further explain what I am suggesting to you.

Perhaps the following web page will help you understand: - Greek Concordance: αἰῶνας (aiōnas) -- 32 Occurrences

Shalom

Taken · Sep 7, 2018

amadeus said:
Or the world, our habitat, which is often described in scripture is our body of flesh which contains that "...lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. [I John 2:16]. Remember what Jesus said about His world before He went to the cross?

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

But for us he said that we were still in the world. Jesus and already overcome His world:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

When we overcome the last obstacle through the Holy Ghost in us, then we will also no longer be in the world. This speaks not I believe of planet Earth, but planet Taken or planet Amadeus.

Yes, He had overcome his little world , but he said to be of good cheer because he was going to make it possible for us to overcome our little world.

Jesus went to the cross not for himself because he was already without sin and he had already overcome all of his own temptations before he died physically. We must do the same and because Jesus paid the price and opened the Way and was to be followed by the Holy Ghost as per Acts chapter 2, we can. So then when we overcome then we can eat of the Tree of Life and be always with Jesus:

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

We all begin IN this world.
Our habitat is IN this world.
The teaching is for mankind to become victorious (overcoming) and NOT BE "OF" this world.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken · Sep 7, 2018

Jay Ross said:
Perhaps, the translation of Hebrews 1:2, has, IMHO, got it wrong, in that it is not speaking of "worlds," but rather of "ages." The Greek word αἰῶνας found in Hebrews 1 : 2

If all of these occurrences of αἰῶνας predominately have the meaning of "ages" then perhaps the intended meaning in Hebrews 1 : 2 should also be "ages."

It seems to me that you have taken a fallible English translations for this verse and then built a misguided theology understanding around it.

It seems to me that you have placed a great deal of upon yourself of what you think SHOULD have been revealed in Scripture.

If you elect to make Heb 1 say "ages", even in defiance of the very Web page you suggested to me , that is your prerogative and has zero effect upon what I Trust to Believe is Scripturally sound.

Presently I do not have the time to further explain what I am suggesting to you.

Perhaps the following web page will help you understand: - Greek Concordance: αἰῶνας (aiōnas) -- 32 Occurrences

Shalom

God Bless,
Taken

Truth · Sep 8, 2018

Episkopos said:
Outer darkness cannot be hell...since fire brings light. A lake of fire would light up the sky as if it were always day. No, outer darkness is anywhere where God isn't. It is to be cast away from His presence.

And this destiny is for the people of God who were not faithful...or who lived a lie.

There are fire's under ground and the only product of there being a fire is the Smoke, kinda like in Kentucky, But I do tend to Agree, Outer Darkness must be Where God is Not. Being separated from God for all Eternity, would be in my opinion a place of GREAT distress, weeping and Grinding of Teeth, That would be Hell, knowing that we did not Believe, and Commit.

Jay Ross · Sep 8, 2018

Taken said:
It seems to me that you have placed a great deal of upon yourself of what you think SHOULD have been revealed in Scripture.

If you elect to make Heb 1 say "ages", even in defiance of the very Web page you suggested to me , that is your prerogative and has zero effect upon what I Trust to Believe is Scripturally sound.

No not really. I however do take the time to carefully consider the Greek text which has been translated and how the respective Greek word has been translated in other passages. The fact that they translate it differently in each case should ring alarm bells for you to go about verifying the logic and rational of the translators, but you are welcome to believe what you like whether or not it is scripturally sound..

Sadly what you believe is scripturally sound may not be scriptural sound at all but would you know that or not.

Helen · Sep 8, 2018

Truth said:
But I do tend to Agree, Outer Darkness must be Where God is Not. Being separated from God for all Eternity, would be in my opinion a place of GREAT distress, weeping and Grinding of Teeth, That would be Hell, knowing that we did not Believe, and Commit.

And...where would that be?

GOD IS!!

Outer Darkness

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