Eternal Security

GodsGrace said:

What do YOU think of when you see the word "command"?

Click to expand...

If you LIVE by the Law, you fall from grace. I mean, why did Jesus even die?? Living under Law to keep His commandments (which are not burdensome) is actually being unfaithful to Jesus finished work. Jesus commands are given that we might so to speak, exchange our heavy burdens for His light ones. There is not one Christian that I know of that thinks it is okay to sin. Actually, it's the polar opposite. The O.T. Laws actually caused more to sin, but under grace and after what Jesus did for us...sin does not reign in us, like in the O.T. We now have Hi Spirit inside us. We now do things like, say - Honor our parents NOT to make us righteous but, BECAUSE we ARE righteous now-through Jesus death and res. Also, when I hear "commandment" in the N.T. I no longer think of the Ten...I think of how blessed I am to be under His new way of...grace. The Law of the O.T. is works based...I'm free.

Stranger said:

I am not saying I know it all. But I know believe doesn't mean obey. Different words and different meanings.

Stranger

Click to expand...

In what language??

Stranger said:

No, I mean the Christ of the Bible is not the messiah you present. You're a false teacher as I said.

Strange that you call the mystery of God the mystery of iniquity.

That is a lie. You do deny the pre-existence of the Son. As you denied (John 17;5) and (Acts 20:28).

And you don't have what Christians have. And we do not want you. So, what are you doing here, false teacher?

Stranger

Click to expand...

Its a good thing we are not dialoguing in person. You would probably have me burned at the stake! The vocal, highly judgmental opponents such as yourself may not want to hear what I teach, but there are those who read without replying that may receive seed into good hearts. I'll stick around a little longer.

Nancy said:

We now do things like, say - Honor our parents NOT to make us righteous but, BECAUSE we ARE righteous now-through Jesus death and res.

Click to expand...

Yes, we do. We also do things like, say - Keep the Sabbath holy NOT to make us righteous, but BECAUSE we ARE righteous now-through Yeshua's death and res.

bbyrd009 said:

well, i'm not sure what your response to Romans 14:5-6 would be, personally i don't notice anyone who esteems all days alike doing it to the Lord in the passage either, but really what i mean to comment on is this problem that you say you have, in the context of that passage; if it is not acceptable, then what is your next step, or how are you going to proceed with them after this has been discovered? Do you feel you have a responsibility beyond making your opinion of the truth known to them, and if so, what? ty

Click to expand...

The word "alike" is not in the Greek of Romans 14:5. Neither is it talking about the Sabbath. There were many other days that both Jews and Gentiles esteemed. It is a mistake to read the Sabbath into that text.

As for the problem and the next steps, all I can do is show them how they misunderstand Sabbath related verses and pray for them. If they continue to fight against the Holy Spirit as it tries to teach them and bring them into obedience, that is their choice. I can't force them to obey. Obedience comes from a heart of love and thankfulness once it has been enlightened.

So what does the Bible mean by believe? The New Testament Greek word pisteuo (believe) means to “be convinced of something” or “give credence to.” We must be convinced that it is an historical fact that more than 2,000 years ago Jesus Christ died on a cross and rose the third day.

gadar perets said:

Yes, we do. We also do things like, say - Keep the Sabbath holy NOT to make us righteous, but BECAUSE we ARE righteous now-through Yeshua's death and res.

Click to expand...

The 10 Commandments were the Law given to the people of God-Israelite's, through Moses. The Law, requires perfection. God's standards are way to high for any mere human to keep, yeah, even you! That is WHY Jesus came, because He was the only Man to fulfill those Laws FOR us. We are no longer under condemnation, our sins have been payed for, He did ALL the work and IF you are sincerely saved and seeking His face, His laws that were put inward after Jesus death...with The Holy Spirit, and sealed...we will not be living a life of sin but, we SHOULD naturally live a life pleasing to Him! We grow to hate sin as He does but...if we so sin we have an advocate..." If you think that keeping the ten commandments will save you, I am sorry for you. I choose to live under His grace, thank you.

Nancy said:

The 10 Commandments were the Law given to the people of God-Israelite's, through Moses. The Law, requires perfection. God's standards are way to high for any mere human to keep, yeah, even you! That is WHY Jesus came, because He was the only Man to fulfill those Laws FOR us. We are no longer under condemnation, our sins have been payed for, He did ALL the work and IF you are sincerely saved and seeking His face, His laws that were put inward after Jesus death...with The Holy Spirit, and sealed...we will not be living a life of sin but, we SHOULD naturally live a life pleasing to Him! We grow to hate sin as He does but...if we so sin we have an advocate..." If you think that keeping the ten commandments will save you, I am sorry for you. I choose to live under His grace, thank you.

Click to expand...

Where did I say keeping the commandments saves us. Have you not "read" any of my posts?

Don't you see your inconsistency? You talk about honoring parent because we are righteous, but when I say we keep the Sabbath holy because we are righteous you accuse me of trying to be saved by the law. Are you trying to be saved by the law by obeying the 5th of the Ten Commandments? Neither am I by obeying the 4th of the Ten.

GodsGrace said:

BELIEVE means OBEY.

I've been Christian a really long time Stranger.
There were no links back then.
What's true is true...no matter where the information comes from.

I you don't want to read the links, speak to someone that speaks koine Greek.

Click to expand...

Yes, if the opposite of believe is disobedience, then it proves believe is to obey.

1 Peter 2:
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,


“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

cc: @Stranger

I actually seeing you, I and Stranger believing the same thing. By believing in Jesus, HE GIVES US HIS SPIRIT to follow Who is Righteous, and thus OBEDIENT. And because we are obedient to the following of the Spirit, we are not under the law.

But, woe to them that believe believing in Jesus is a license to sin.

GodsGrace said:

What do YOU think of when you see the word "command"?

Click to expand...

I'll give my two cents - The commands of Jesus that He constantly preached were not the 10C, nor keeping the Sabbath, but believing in Him. That we do from our own free will. But love is a command that we can keep; it is a fruit of the Spirit He gives us as a free gift to indwell us and give us a new nature that naturally loves. We must have that new nature - we must be born again. Not everyone calling themselves a Christian has this new nature. Why, I don't know for sure. I just know that there are conditions that I did not meet the first 30 years of believing in Jesus. But when I REPENTED one night of all sin, and begged God to cleanse me from its draw, He filled me with His Holy Spirit, and suddenly the draw was completely gone. So I believe repentance is the missing ingredient in the lives of many Christians. I'm talking about true repentance, not the manipulation to get a ticket to heaven. But when we fall in love with Jesus.

Stranger said:

Believe does not mean obey.

Click to expand...

Now you are asking for what James had to say -- IN DEPTH -- about "mere belief".

JAMES 2
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

gadar perets said:

Where did I say keeping the commandments saves us. Have you not "read" any of my posts?

Don't you see your inconsistency? You talk about honoring parent because we are righteous, but when I say we keep the Sabbath holy because we are righteous you accuse me of trying to be saved by the law. Are you trying to be saved by the law by obeying the 5th of the Ten Commandments? Neither am I by obeying the 4th of the Ten.

Click to expand...

Well, you certainly SOUND like you believe we are under the Law in much of your stuff I read, and I do not read much of it. There is only one way to be saved, Christians know it. We are NOT under Law but, under grace. Why must some mix the two? Sin is sin is sin...God HATES it all...we now (Christians) have the Spirit of the Living God residing INSIDE us-we have power to say no to sin and that does not mean we are perfect beings. You choose to believe what you will, as will I.

Nancy said:

Well, you certainly SOUND like you believe we are under the Law in much of your stuff I read, and I do not read much of it. There is only one way to be saved, Christians know it. We are NOT under Law but, under grace. Why must some mix the two? Sin is sin is sin...God HATES it all...we now (Christians) have the Spirit of the Living God residing INSIDE us-we have power to say no to sin and that does not mean we are perfect beings. You choose to believe what you will, as will I.

Click to expand...

Keeping the Sabbath does NOT mean we are under the law. Neither does not being under the law mean we can break the law whenever we want. Your problem is listening to other posters constantly accusing me of being under the law and then believing that of me as well. Judge with a righteous judgment.

Yes, YHWH hates sin, so go and learn what sin is (1 John 3:4). Then maybe you will start obeying the law in order to avoid what He hates. Yes, the Spirit gives us power to say no to sin. So why not say no to breaking the Sabbath and let the Holy Spirit empower you to keep it holy?

1stCenturyLady said:

Yes, if the opposite of believe is disobedience, then it proves believe is to obey.

1 Peter 2:
Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,


“The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone,”

8 and

“A stone of stumbling
And a rock of offense.”

They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed.

cc: @Stranger

I actually seeing you, I and Stranger believing the same thing. By believing in Jesus, HE GIVES US HIS SPIRIT to follow that is OBEDIENT. And because we are obedient to the following of the Spirit, we are not under the law.

But, woe to them that believe believing in Jesus is a license to sin.

Click to expand...

Amen. As many as are led by The Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Rom8:14
The original word for sons is the word "Huos " which denotes the matured son of God. Maturity in Christ is determined by the response of an individual to the leading of the Holy Spirit. (KJV online)

gadar perets said:

Keeping the Sabbath does NOT mean we are under the law. Neither does not being under the law mean we can break the law whenever we want. Your problem is listening to other posters constantly accusing me of being under the law and then believing that of me as well. Judge with a righteous judgment.

Yes, YHWH hates sin, so go and learn what sin is (1 John 3:4). Then maybe you will start obeying the law in order to avoid what He hates. Yes, the Spirit gives us power to say no to sin. So why not say no to breaking the Sabbath and let the Holy Spirit empower you to keep it holy?

Click to expand...

Just FYI. 99% of my free time is spent with scripture, prayer, reading, teachings of several kinds, 7 days a week. Sundays, I attend services because I WANT and look forward to it! And, if I come straight home, and not go to several fellow congregants house for lunch, I will catch another service. It is not on SATURDAY, so...am I breaking the Sabbath?

GodsGrace said:

In what language??

Click to expand...

In any language.

Stranger

gadar perets said:

Its a good thing we are not dialoguing in person. You would probably have me burned at the stake! The vocal, highly judgmental opponents such as yourself may not want to hear what I teach, but there are those who read without replying that may receive seed into good hearts. I'll stick around a little longer.

Click to expand...

Indeed, and that is your intention. You, as a false teacher, trying to plant false seeds.

If I had my way, which I don't, yes you would be burned at the stake. With green wood.

Stranger

Enoch111 said:

Now you are asking for what James had to say -- IN DEPTH -- about "mere belief".

JAMES 2
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Click to expand...

I didn't ask anything.

Stranger

Nancy said:

Just FYI. 99% of my free time is spent with scripture, prayer, reading, teachings of several kinds, 7 days a week. Sundays, I attend services because I WANT and look forward to it! And, if I come straight home, and not go to several fellow congregants house for lunch, I will catch another service. It is not on SATURDAY, so...am I breaking the Sabbath?

Click to expand...

Commendable. You are not doing forbidden work on Sabbath, but neither are you gathering in a holy convocation with YHWH's people as He desires (Leviticus 23:4 ; Hebrews 10:25). We are not commanded to gather together on the first day of the week and there is nothing wrong with doing so, but we are on the 7th day of the week. Why? Because it is the holy time that our Creator set aside and desires to commune with His people. If we choose to commune with Him seven days a week, HalleluYah!, but we should not neglect doing so on the 7th day. I would also add that while it is great that you don't work on the 7th day, it is not good that you teach others they CAN work on that day.

Stranger said:

If I had my way, which I don't, yes you would be burned at the stake. With green wood.

Stranger

Click to expand...

If you had your way you would kill me??? Interesting. Thankfully you don't have your way. I'm sorry you have so much hatred in your heart for people that see Scripture differently than you do.

gadar perets said:

Commendable. You are not doing forbidden work on Sabbath, but neither are you gathering in a holy convocation with YHWH's people as He desires (Leviticus 23:4 ; Hebrews 10:25). We are not commanded to gather together on the first day of the week and there is nothing wrong with doing so, but we are on the 7th day of the week. Why? Because it is the holy time that our Creator set aside and desires to commune with His people. If we choose to commune with Him seven days a week, HalleluYah!, but we should not neglect doing so on the 7th day. I would also add that while it is great that you don't work on the 7th day, it is not good that you teach others they CAN work on that day.

Click to expand...

Leviticus 23:2-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. <-------Are you Jewish? And you say to me: "...other posters constantly accusing me of being under the law and then believing that of me as well." <------ Now, don't you see your inconsistency?

3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. <------Still LAW And I certainly do NOT forsake the gathering!
Mark 2:27 <----God made the Sabbath as a day of rest for man's benefit.
(Matthew 12:1-14, Mark 2:23-28, 3:1-6, Luke 6:1-11, 13:10-17, 14:1-6, John 5:1-18). <-----Jesus as well as the disciples did not follow these strict Jewish laws about work on the Sabbath.
"Romans 14:5-6
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.