Why Jews were Made, not Born

VictoryinJesus · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
Flesh cannot enter the kingdom.

Not sure. Consider: Ephesians 5:30
[30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Acts 2:17
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Ezekiel 11:19
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: (stony heart-the laws written in stone will be written on tables of flesh??)

“One heart” not each an individual heart but one heart...one same spirit...one same mouth...one mind that is the mind of Christ. Romans 15:6 [6] That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 14:30
[30] A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Not sure. Consider: Ephesians 5:30
[30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Acts 2:17
[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Ezekiel 11:19
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: (stony heart-the laws written in stone will be written on tables of flesh??)

“One heart” not each an individual heart but one heart...one same spirit...one same mouth...one mind that is the mind of Christ. Romans 15:6 [6] That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 14:30
[30] A sound heart is the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

The Church on earth is Christ's flesh and bones which we all are members of.

VictoryinJesus · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
The Church on earth is Christ's flesh and bones which we all are members of.

I guess I’m missing the argument then. Do you mean: 1 Corinthians 3:11-13
[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
Flesh cannot enter the kingdom.

Then what's Jesus doing there?

Stranger

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
Then what's Jesus doing there?

Stranger

“For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
I guess I’m missing the argument then. Do you mean: 1 Corinthians 3:11-13
[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. [12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; [13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

“For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” (Ephesians 5:30) = us now. But concerning our body after death:
“It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.” (1 Corinthians 15:44)

VictoryinJesus · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
We must get away from this platonic Christianity that speaks of material and physical as evil and spirit as good. That just isn't true

Agree. But can you receive it? Genesis 27:39-40[39] And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above; [40] And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

“...when thou shalt have the dominion that thou shall break his yoke from off thy neck.” Whose yoke?

Isaiah 58:6
[6] Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
“For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.” (Philippians 3:20–21)

Again, if flesh cannot enter the kingdom, what is Jesus doing there?

Stranger

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
Again, if flesh cannot enter the kingdom, what is Jesus doing there?

Stranger

It's your call. I provided scripture that doesn't suit you. Not much more I can do.

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

VictoryinJesus said:
Agree. But can you receive it? Genesis 27:39-40[39] And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above; [40] And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

“...when thou shalt have the dominion that thou shall break his yoke from off thy neck.” Whose yoke?

Isaiah 58:6
[6] Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

The yoke of (Gen. 27:40) is not the same yoke as (Is. 58:6). The yoke of (Gen. 27:40) pertains to Jacobs rule over Esau due to the birthright. This yoke Esau would revolt against. (2 Kings 8:22). (Is. 58:6) speaks to a yoke of sin and wickedness upon God's people Israel. See (58:1).

Stranger

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
It's your call. I provided scripture that doesn't suit you. Not much more I can do.

No, you provided no Scripture to explain if flesh cannot enter the kingdom then why is Jesus there. Do you acknowledge that Jesus is flesh, and He is there?

Do you acknowledge that we as believers will have a body like Jesus Christ, of flesh and bone?

Do you acknowledge that the new earth will be physical, material?

See. This idea that the kingdom is just spiritual and not physical is baloney.

Stranger

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
No, you provided no Scripture to explain if flesh cannot enter the kingdom then why is Jesus there. Do you acknowledge that Jesus is flesh, and He is there?

Do you acknowledge that we as believers will have a body like Jesus Christ, of flesh and bone?

Do you acknowledge that the new earth will be physical, material?

See. This idea that the kingdom is just spiritual and not physical is baloney.

Stranger

See if this helps.

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:45–55)

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
See if this helps.

“And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:45–55)

Great verses. Giving me some verses doesn't answer the questions I asked you.

Stranger

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
Great verses. Giving me some verses doesn't answer the questions I asked you.

Stranger

Then why not give it a rest?

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
Then why not give it a rest?

And what does that prove?

Stranger

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
And what does that prove?

Stranger

We are beating a dead horse wasting bandwidth.

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
We are beating a dead horse wasting bandwidth.

You don't mind wasting bandwidth in preaching your views. When questioned, it is now a dead horse. Fine, admit your view of the Church and Israel and the kingdom is flawed and don't attempt to discuss it anymore on the forum.

Stranger

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
You don't mind wasting bandwidth in preaching your views. When questioned, it is now a dead horse. Fine, admit your view of the Church and Israel and the kingdom is flawed and don't attempt to discuss it anymore on the forum.

Stranger

The Church is Biblical Israel because Jesus IS Israel. Now we are back on topic and we can focus on what counts.

Stranger · Sep 17, 2018

Dave L said:
The Church is Biblical Israel because Jesus IS Israel. Now we are back on topic and we can focus on what counts.

Then back to post (#171) and my unanswered questions.

Stranger

Dave L · Sep 17, 2018

Stranger said:
Then back to post (#171) and my unanswered questions.

Stranger

You are moving off topic.

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