Jesus is not the Ancient of Days...nor is He Elyon "the Most High"...but He was IN God as YHVH. It's in the text....and it's in the life.
Eternal Security
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Jesus is not the Ancient of Days...nor is He Elyon "the Most High"...but He was IN God as YHVH. It's in the text....and it's in the life.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
YHWH is the Most High (Psalm 47:2 and others). So if Yeshua is not "the Most High", then he is NOT YHWH.
YHVH abides in Elyon...
ט כִּי-אַתָּה יְהוָה מַחְסִי עֶלְיוֹן שַׂמְתָּ מְעוֹנֶךָ.
"For you O lord (YHVH), my refuge, have made the Most High (ELYON) Your habitation."
As Jesus said...I am in My Father and My Father is in Me.
John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me—or at least believe on account of the works themselves.
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You beat me to the punch. I was going to reply on this very post of JBF.
JBF moved to the MKJV for this translation of Jude 1:4. I guess KJV and MKJV are now acceptable IAW JBF. Then maybe other translations that suit and support his theory that Jesus = God again. It would be naïve to think the using the NKJV with 'even' in the verse make both persons the same. Actually the word marks a clear distinction that they are quite different.
Sorry JBF, @justbyfaith ,I just saw what GP posted. It was too obvious to pass up. I was going to comment anyway.
Blessings,
APAK
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Ps. 91:9 = John 14:11
Read the Hebrew...and look at how it harmonizes with the words of Jesus.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
The Psalmist is addressing the man who has made the Most High his refuge/secret place (verse 1). In verses 1 and 3-8, that man is being addressed and something is being done for him. Verse 9 tells us why.
"For you [that man] have made YHWH Most High (my refuge) your [that man's] habitation".
YHWH is the Most High. Therefore, He cannot make the Most High His habitation. Your translation is faulty.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
When a person truly abides in Christ...it is Christ living through the person. Paul said....no longer I but Christ.
I know the Hebrew...and I am saying it right.
Here is a transliteration that has just one mistake in it. "Samta" means...have YOU made. The transliteration is good except leaving out the "you."
Psalm 91:9 Interlinear: (For Thou, O Jehovah, art my refuge,) The Most High thou madest thy habitation.
Fo those who read Hebrew the text is perplexing....unless you look at Jesus and what He said.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Word for word:
For/because - you - YHWH - my refuge - Most High - you put/set/made - your dwelling place.
Translation:
For you put YHWH, my refuge, the Most High as your dwelling place.
WEB - "Because you have made Yahweh your refuge, and the Most High your dwelling place"
Rotherham - "Because, thou, hast made Yahweh, my refuge,—The Most High, thou last made thy dwelling-place,"
NASB - "For you have made the LORD, my refuge, Even the Most High, your dwelling place. "
JPS - "For thou hast made the LORD who is my refuge, even the Most High, thy habitation. "
KJV - "Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation; "
The Greek word is "kai" which can be translated "even". Now they deny the only Lord God even our Lord Jesus Christ, makes more sense than saying that they deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ, doesn't it? When you translate it as "and" you have, count it, two Lords. And one of them is the only Lord God. So the other one either isn't Lord or He is also the only Lord God. And the scripture also declares that there is only one Lord in Ephesians 4:5 and two or more other verses.
See it, @APAK and @gadar perets.
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There is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5). So you're saying Jesus isn't the Lord then?
Yes, I understand what I am preaching. As I said in a post in another thread, I have made it my aim to be obedient to 2 Timothy 2:15 for many years.
There is no scripture that even remotely says that I will be dying in my sins for believing that Jesus is the Lord of Mark 12:29 (kjv); even the great I AM. But there is scripture that says quite clearly to anyone with a softened heart that to deny Christ's Deity is to subject one's self to the fate of dying in one's sins (John 8:24 in light of John 8:58 in light of John 8:59 and John 10:31-33 and Exodus 3:14).
You can attempt to use carnal, human arguments to attempt to defeat this testimony in order to justify yourselves; but we have prayer on our side: and the Holy Ghost will convict you and convince you of the truth.
That is simple. Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; and His ministry was to them. It would be His Spirit that would be the One to minister to the Greeks in context of the book of Acts of the Apostles.
As I said elsewhere, the prosecutors cannot be witnesses in any trial; and therefore they sought to evoke a response from Jesus in questioning Him so that He would condemn Himself by His own words during the trial. They knew that He would testify the same as He had always testified if questioned thoroughly enough. And sure enough, He did testify yet again to what he had always testified to, and in Mark 14:61-64, He was condemned to the Cross for blasphemy (claiming to be the Son that was given in Isaiah 9:6).
So Jesus was saying in Matthew 7:13-14 the opposite of what He later said in John 14:6?
The way into heaven is to reject Jesus Christ?
I have to say that I do not perceive that you are preaching Biblical Christianity; but the rejection of the truth of scripture; and attempting to use scripture to make your points. Not good.
If that is not what you are saying then I apologize for the misunderstanding.
The Son is a distinct Person from the Father. The Father, the Ancient of Days, dwells in eternity with him who is of a contrite and humble spirit (Isaiah 57:15). Jesus on the other hand, is the incarnation of the Father and therefore distinct from the One I just mentioned, since He dwells in a human flesh body (1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
1 Corinthians 2:13-14,
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. For the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
In order to be able to receive the truth and to see it not as foolishness to you (see also 1 Corinthians 1:18), you need the Holy Ghost.
I prescribe two ways in scripture of receiving Him: 1) Do what it says to do in Luke 11:9-13; and/or, 2) Do what it says to do in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39.
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@justbyfaith
A lot of people who love God may miss what you consider important, but still in their hearts God sees the love/charity that makes the difference to Him. Pleasing God is always more than pleasing any man or men.
Your response tells me that you don't even know what I was saying. I may not always get everything right, but I never reject what I perceive as God's truth.
A lot of people who love God may miss what you consider important, but still in their hearts God sees the love/charity that makes the difference to Him. Pleasing God is always more than pleasing any man or men.
I gather that you were saying what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21-23; but you were not clear enough to avoid us misunderstanding that you might be trying to say to us that those people who reject Jesus Christ are more likely to be saved than those who have received Him.
I will grant it to you that there are plenty of people who identify themselves as "Christian" and who call Him, "Lord, Lord" but do not have the saving knowledge of who He is.
Nevertheless those people who reject Him outright most definitely do not have a relationship with Him; and to say otherwise is to be in contention with what Jesus said in John 14:6.
Again, I apologize if I have been misunderstanding you: but I would ask that you make your position clearer so that we can all understand what you are trying to say.
I will grant it to you that there are plenty of people who identify themselves as "Christian" and who call Him, "Lord, Lord" but do not have the saving knowledge of who He is.
Nevertheless those people who reject Him outright most definitely do not have a relationship with Him; and to say otherwise is to be in contention with what Jesus said in John 14:6.
Again, I apologize if I have been misunderstanding you: but I would ask that you make your position clearer so that we can all understand what you are trying to say.
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Also, every man apart from faith in Jesus Christ is in the state of what Calvinistic teaching calls total depravity.
And therefore if someone is not born again, the love/charity that you are speaking of does not dwell in them: the best an unregenerate person can do in the way of loving other people is to love those who love them, with what the Greek bears out is storge, eros, or at the greatest level phileo. However, agape love is something that only God can place in someone's heart (Romans 5:5).
Therefore if someone misses "what I consider important" (not because I consider it to be so, but because scripture bears out that it is important to salvation), they will also be missing out on that love/charity that you think that God might see in them; and God cannot see in them what isn't there.
And therefore if someone is not born again, the love/charity that you are speaking of does not dwell in them: the best an unregenerate person can do in the way of loving other people is to love those who love them, with what the Greek bears out is storge, eros, or at the greatest level phileo. However, agape love is something that only God can place in someone's heart (Romans 5:5).
Therefore if someone misses "what I consider important" (not because I consider it to be so, but because scripture bears out that it is important to salvation), they will also be missing out on that love/charity that you think that God might see in them; and God cannot see in them what isn't there.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
We are to worship the only true God (Yeshua's Father - John 17:3). To worship any other being as the only true God is idolatry. It is not wrong to "worship" Yeshua in the true sense of that word, unless that worship is directed at him as the only true God, which is exactly what you and others here are doing.
What are you two best verses proving the "incarnation" is Biblical truth?
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