You are here accusing Christians of not using biblical definitions.
Thereby you are equating Christianity with cultism. For it is the cults that use definitions that are not biblical, redefining words in order to fit their doctrine.
Eternal Security
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You are here accusing Christians of not using biblical definitions.
Thereby you are equating Christianity with cultism. For it is the cults that use definitions that are not biblical, redefining words in order to fit their doctrine.
I want to be in my shoes. I have absolute assurance of my salvation in the Lord. And I also know that I am not accusing the Holy Spirit of having a natural mind.
Strangely enough, we might be back to the topic of what this thread is supposed to be about.
What you are doing is just reading your bias into the text. It's a common mistake. You're saying..."there's no way YHVH is Elyon"...no matter what the text is actually saying.
Hey, disbelief in Jesus as the Son of God has been being practiced for a few thousand years...The arguments are tiring to listen to.
It comes down to what you have experienced of God. When one reads the text AFTER meeting the Lord....nothing seems impossible.
Just looked at your post……JBF
I needed to read your first statement a few times to see if I was reading it wrong. I did not want to misread it.
You wrote: "Jesus, today, exists in human flesh; as He is a Man sitting on the right hand of the throne of God (and also in the throne of His Father, Revelation 3:21"
Are you telling me that Jesus is a human being of skin, blood and bones today in heaven- in human flesh? Tell me this is a big mistake. Really human flesh. Maybe you made a mistake.
You basically said before you are a Trinitarian. What type of Trinitarian are you?!!!
Any mature Catholic worth their salt in their religion would detest and scoff at this claim of Jesus having human flesh in heaven. Matt Slick and his followers teach this very anti-scriptural doctrine although he does not specifically say he is in flesh today, explicitly. He is wiry about it
You know I’ve heard this account as you have given, only a few times before over the last few years. Is this a neo-Trinitarian movement? I don’t need to call you a Modalist, this is a heck of a lot worse.
Do you really think that skin and bone (flesh) can live in the heavenlies? Scripture says that Jesus is like an angel.
As an overcomer, I too will also be in this form. I don’t think we are composed of skin and bone in spiritual form. Maybe when one can shape-shift into this 3D-Space continuum then we become flesh again, ,,???
And I did not know what Rev 3:21 you cited had anything to do with Jesus being in the flesh in heaven today.
The verse of course is about overcomers ruling with Christ at his position of authority, as Christ rules from his Father’s highest position.
Can you explain why, and where in scripture Jesus is still flesh and bone in heaven? If I have missed something let me know.
And I’m not going to tackle this very confusing statement where you say:
“Therefore you have Jesus as the 2nd and 3rd Persons of the Trinity; in that He is a finite Man (2nd Person) and also the Omnipresent Holy Ghost (3rd Person). And as the 1st Person of the Trinity He is the pre-incarnate, Omnipresent Father.”
I just want to say this statement says it is NOT the classic Trinitarian view and I’m not even a Trinitarian.
So, Jesus is really all three Persons of what? Is this still a Trinity? I say know, it is not. It is a Jesus-Modalist believers view. Wow, I had to use the 'M' word.
It is 3 persons or modes in one Jesus! As I see it anyway.
Now I know why you have twisted scripture in places to conform to your belief model. Got it.
I wonder if @Episkopos believes the same. It would explain a very great deal.
Bless you,
APAK
You completely ignored me again...unreal...
So you know that I believe in the Son of God and you are playing cute here because I do not believe apparently the same way as you in the Son of God as Christ.
For the record, and I know you are not in the least interested, and if you did not get it the first time, I do and always have believed that the Son of God is Jesus. You believe that the son of God is more than that just what scripture says right? Come on, own it and tell the truth.
Are you a Jesus-Modalist as JBF seems to be?
I pray you will change your ways with folks, and at least not be shifty in your words as you know you are doing deliberately.
Not good for your soul mate
APAK
So @APAK, concerning some of your statements, my question is, Do you deny that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh?
No, my view is not completely modalist (as I have said that my view is somewhere in between the Trinitarian view that is taught by Calvary Chapel, and the modalist view taught by the Oneness Pentecostals; for that I have taken much thought to the idea of the Trinity and have taken things from both camps to form my view: which emphasizes the Oneness in the Trinity without denying the disctinctness of each Person within the Godhead).
Now I said,
Therefore my view is not completely modalistic; but is based on much thought concerning the Tri-Unity of the Lord.
No, my view is not completely modalist (as I have said that my view is somewhere in between the Trinitarian view that is taught by Calvary Chapel, and the modalist view taught by the Oneness Pentecostals; for that I have taken much thought to the idea of the Trinity and have taken things from both camps to form my view: which emphasizes the Oneness in the Trinity without denying the disctinctness of each Person within the Godhead).
Now I said,
Therefore my view is not completely modalistic; but is based on much thought concerning the Tri-Unity of the Lord.
Today is a busy day...in and out. People won't be judged so much by what they believe apart from what that belief makes them do....or how it makes them behave. If a person saves your life, are you going to get picky on their religious affiliation?
I believe in what the scriptures say about Jesus...and there is quite a depth to it.
I believe that the Father is the Most High.....3x holy. Jesus is the Mediator...being both divine AND human. The Holy Spirit is an extension of God....from both Father and Son.
I have walked in that divine life....with Christ in Zion. The armour of light is literal....light emanating from your eyes that opens up the spiritual world as a superimposed dimension on this reality. Seeing the kingdom of God is real. It is a spiritual faculty obtained by entering into the life of Jesus.
Without divinity there is no life in Jesus. He imparts life to those who enter into Him. Jesus is from above...divine...of the same essence as the Father. There is no doubt at all. AND the scriptures testify to this. Jesus IS YHVH together with His Father.
Modalism? No.
Jesus is forever attached to His creation...being fully human. He is distinct from the Father. And He elevates His creation into the divine family through His own life. We never have our own eternal life. We enter into Jesus who does. It is HIS life we share.
The Holy Spirit is not exactly a separate person....but an extension of God...the part that makes intimate contact with us. It is the love between the Father and the Son. We are called into that union of love.
Well yes of course I believe Jesus came in the flesh JBF. This is what distinguishes me from even Trinitarians, as I even believe he just had one nature, and that was human. Others want to tag a divine nature to him as well which would be impossible, indeed. They do this mainly because they feel this is the only way he could stay sinless. I say they need to read scripture more. They need the spirit of God to lead them. Many have little faith in the word. They forget he was born as the 1st Adam without the sin nature AND the Father was within him since his birth. I just do not know why they ignore this completely as not being important. It makes all the difference!!
Have I said that I did believe Jesus came in the flesh before? I don't believe you will find that writing by me.
I do seem to understand why our scripture agreement is tough, the way you belief differently as I. And of course I see your interpretation as wrong nearly every time because you are part-modalist and Tri-Unity believer.
And I just let scripture lead me to where it shall go and thus I shall believe. I do not have a label JBF, really as in a specific belief system.
Bless you,
APAK
So you are not the typical Trinitarian as I read your last statement, that the 3rd person does not exist - it is an extension of God Almighty. And I must say in the way I know God Almighty, not yours. I cannot be you. I can buy into this part as an area of agreement that the Holy Spirit is really God Almighty's extension and power that reaches into our world. Good. There's one thing in common
Ok, I hope your busy day slows down soon.
Bless you,
APAK
We have a share in the divine nature through Christ in us. But that life is not activated until we enter into Him....so the life that is hidden in us flows out like a river. Our spirit is the smaller part of our heart....the life of which is meant to take over our entire heart...into the soul.
I'm not a theorist nor a theologian. Being didactic about the things of God is not of the Spirit anyway. It is of men. So I don't get involved in that way of examining things. I speak about life. And my testimony is about life. I find people know very little from actual experience with God. People seem more interested in talking ABOUT God...while God is right there to be entered into. Go figure? It's all head knowledge....but it goes nowhere. Faith connects us to God. That's what counts. To bring God down to where we are....and to elevate us into His presence in Zion.
There is a lot more to it than that... people read the same verses over and over and miss the depth of it. So the the Spirit gives revelation to those who approach the word in simplicity.....not as theologians. Hence my own simplicity. The deepest things are in the simplicity.
We all are moving forward (hopefully) in fits and starts. The important thing is to do all things as unto the Lord and so be pleasing to Him. We are here for Him...not ourselves. What we think is not that important really. It is about what we do with what we have been given. It's about leaving room for more growth....and always maintaining humility. Maturity is seen in the love we are able to reflect back into the world as we allow our faces to shine the light of Jesus. But we have to keep our focus om Him...and allow this world to go slightly out of focus in so doing.
Peace
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You want to label me as "part-modalist" and "part tri-Unity" believer. What I would say to you is that I have looked at both views and have come to a conclusion that gives me a better understanding so that I know what the Trinity really is and understand it as a doctrine in most if not all of what its intricacies entail.
Now you say, "Of course I believe that Jesus came in the flesh jbf". But I think you were missing what my question really is.
Not, did Jesus come in the flesh? but, Is Jesus come in the flesh? (1 John 4:1-3 (kjv), 2 John 1:7 (kjv))
Does Jesus exist in human form today? is the question!
If you deny this, then you are of the spirit of Antichrist (1 John 4:1-3 (kjv), 2 John 1:7 (kjv)).
I'm just tired now...getting back into the studio (all day session) after having the summer off.
I don't think I am a typical anything. I don't fit into any human box. I am really born in Zion. So then I don't expect anybody to really understand the mystery of what is a very personal journey.
I think you might be a brother even if you do have a problem with your interpretation of Matthew 7:13-14.
Ok, one last time will I entertain this nonsense. If you see you error, then let me know else don’t bother trying to continue to promote confusion with another same type of response. I just have to say no, no more please.
You have a problem understanding tense structure in the modern English sentence. That is the crux of your problem.
One reason why the KJV is difficult to read is because it uses mixed and archaic link-to-main verb structures in their sentences, as in old English. Now we do not use that style of writing today. It is one of the reasons there are new translations besides the KJV.
I’ll just look at 1 John 4:1-3:
(1Jn 4:1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
(1Jn 4:2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
(1Jn 4:3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Look at verses 2 and 3: can you spot the problem here for a modern English writer? Is still uses the archaic term ‘is come.’ No one uses this type of link to main verb construction any more.
In verse 2 and 3, it should read “…Christ came in the flesh….”
It is past tense JBF not a present state tense verb. Christ came in the flesh. He came or was born a human being. It not to infer in any way that Christ still is a human being in the flesh based on these verses anyway.
Go check this out with someone else if you don’t trust me.
One more thing, are you conscious of the fact that you rearranged these two verses in two ways, from: “…Jesus is come… “to, “Is Jesus come…” and, as a question. It still would mean, in any case, “Did Jesus come in the flesh,” that is ok to infer, and I would answer again, yes, and yes again.
You wrote: “Is Jesus come in the flesh?” This scripture of course has nothing to do with Jesus’ form today as you naively believe. It is all about his past! Capishe!
Bless you,
APAK
So, in other words, you deny it.
I won't reiterate what that means concerning the spirit that you carry as it is written in 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7; because I think that you already know what that is.
You should check out Luke 24:39, Luke 24:41-43, Acts of the Apostles 1:11, Matthew 26:29).
Also 1 John 1:1 in light of 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7.
See also Matthew 14:31 if you are in any way Gnostic.
I won't reiterate what that means concerning the spirit that you carry as it is written in 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7; because I think that you already know what that is.
You should check out Luke 24:39, Luke 24:41-43, Acts of the Apostles 1:11, Matthew 26:29).
Also 1 John 1:1 in light of 1 John 4:1-3 and 2 John 1:7.
See also Matthew 14:31 if you are in any way Gnostic.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
You don't even read my posts. I have said several times that YHWH IS the Most High (Elyon). That is why He cannot be IN the Most High.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
How do you define the matter?
If Jesus is the Son of God, then His name shall be called The Mighty God and The Everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6).
And the fact that His name is called The Mighty God indicates to me that He is YHWH, Jehovah God (see Psalms 50:1).
If Jesus is the Son of God, then His name shall be called The Mighty God and The Everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6).
And the fact that His name is called The Mighty God indicates to me that He is YHWH, Jehovah God (see Psalms 50:1).
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
I see you are still deceived by using "The" in front of those titles even though it is not found in the Hebrew text. Jehu's name means "He is Yah" or "Yah is He". Does that indicate to you that he is YHWH? Yeshua is a "mighty el"/"mighty warrior"/ "powerful warrior" and a host of other ways "el gibbor" can be translated. He CANNOT be "The Mighty God" because there is only one true God which is what using a capital "G" and the article "The" would denote. And even if you refuse to use the correct Hebrew translation of "father of eternity", Yeshua can still be consider a "father" since he has "seed" (Isaiah 53:10) and he will live forever.
You want me to believe Yeshua is God based on handful of verses that erroneously use "God" with a capital "G" when referring to him. Yet, you will ignore almost 100 verses that use the word "Son" when referring to him which shows he is NOT his own father. You also ignore another 58 verses where Yeshua calls YHWH "my Father" indicating he is NOT YHWH. Not to mention all the times Yeshua's Father is called the God of Abraham...or that Yeshua calls "my God".
You continue on in your deceived state worshiping your God/Man and I'll stick to "worshiping" the Son of God.
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