Rise and measure the temple of GodIn the New Testament, the temple and its various features are often used to illustrate truth about the church. Peter writes: "you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 2:5). Paul reminds the church at Corinth, "for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are" (1 Cor. 3:17). Members of the Philadelphian church are promised that they will be made "pillar(s) in the temple" (Rev. 3:12). In Paul's letter to the Ephesians, he illustrates redemption by describing the wall of the temple that divided the inner Jewish court and outer gentile court. Christ’s redemptive work tore down "the dividing wall" and created one body of believers (Eph. 2:14). Paul then presents Christ, the apostles and prophets, and all the saints as the foundation and building materials fitted together "into a holy temple in the Lord...a dwelling of God in the Spirit" (Eph. 2:20-22).In Revelation 11, the temple, the outer court, and the holy city are similarly employed to portray saints. Some of these saints, later designated as "two witnesses," are first introduced as "the temple, altar and those who worship in it." They are measured and specifically distinguished from a larger community, those who do not worship in the altar and the "court which is outside." The entire church, the whole body of Christ, is presented by the figure of the temple, the outer court, and the holy city, but this chapter focuses on those who "worship in the altar." The subsequent discussion and description of two witnesses revolve around those "measured" members of the church whose worship is altar-worship.The saints brought to our attention as the two witnesses are ethnic believing Jews. In the temple, the inner and outer courts separated ethnic Jews and gentiles who worshipped the one true God. Likewise, the believing Jews in chapter 11 are distinguished from believing gentiles. Worship in the altarOur understanding of the central purpose of the two witnesses' ministry is established when they are described as "those who worship in [the altar]" (11:1). The entire book of Revelation is a call to worship in the altar, to recognize and value above all else the nature of God demonstrated in the Lamb. It is the Lamb who is central to God's rule, "in the center of the throne" (5:6, 7:17). It is the Lamb's wisdom ("eyes") and Lamb's power ("horns") that are the spirits sent "into all the earth" (5:5). It is from the altar that prayers ascend and judgment descends (8:3-5). It is in the blood of the Lamb that robes are made white (7:14). It is the sacrifice of the Lamb, the ultimate Priest and King, that makes both priests and kings (5:10). The power of the altar, "four horns of the golden altar," appropriately calls for the inevitable destruction inherent and residing in the Euphrates, the life-source of Babylon (9:13-15). It is from the altar that the angel comes to reap the harvest of the earth hostile to God (14:18). It is the altar that speaks during the judgment of the earth's rivers and springs saying, "Thus, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments" (16:7). The two witnesses, as those who worship in the altar, are witnesses to life defined by the altar.Thus, in chapter 11, our attention is drawn to the two witnesses. They are first characterized and distinguished by the scene where John is instructed to measure between the Jewish and gentile courts of the Temple. They are described specifically as those who worship in the altar. And then their identity is further developed as "the two olive trees and the two lampstands." Two olive treesIn verse 4, the two witnesses are identified as "the two olive trees...that stand before the Lord of the earth." Although the two olive trees are not found elsewhere in the book of Revelation, they are identified in Zechariah 4. In that context, an angel shows Zechariah two olive trees that supply oil to a single lampstand. As Zechariah presses the angel for an explanation, especially of the two olive branches, he learns that "these are the two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth" (Zech. 4:14). Dr. Feinberg says of this scene,Practically all expositors interpret the last three verses thus: the two olive trees are the priestly and kingly offices of Israel; the two olive branches or twigs are their then incumbents, Joshua and Zerubbabel. Theirs is a position of responsibility in service before the Lord of all the earth. Ultimately these two servants of God in their official capacities adumbrate the Lord Jesus Christ, the Messiah who is both King and Priest. Thus the reference to the two olive trees tells us that the two witnesses of Revelation typify respectively the offices of priest and king. Two lampstandsIn their respective typical roles, the two witnesses are also "the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth." Lampstands are a familiar symbol from the context of Revelation 1-3. In chapter 1, the seven churches are identified as seven lampstands (1:20). In chapters 2 and 3, the two lampstands, the churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia, are distinguished by the fact that they stand without criticism while the five others are warned by the Lord to repent from their fallen condition. But for Philadelphia and Smyrna to be "the two lampstands that stand" we would expect them also to be composed of Jews, with one church demonstrating the priestly office and the other church the kingly. Such appears to be the case. Of all the remarks made to the seven churches, only Smyrna and Philadelphia are addressed as Jews who had become followers of Christ. In both cases, the Lord speaks to the concern of believing Jews who had been put out of synagogues by unbelieving Jews, "those who say they are Jews" (2:9, 3:9). When we consider that the Lord addresses only these two churches regarding their experience with the "synagogue of Satan" (ethnic Jewish non-believers who falsely claimed to be God's true synagogue), it seems reasonable to conclude that the Lord regarded Philadelphia and Smyrna as the rightful claimants to the title "Jew," and saw their assemblies as the true synagogues. Gentile churches would not be inclined to a negative reaction toward ethnic non-believing Jews calling themselves Jews, or consequently in need of the Lord's assurance that He regarded such false claimants as a synagogue of Satan. Converted gentiles were called Christians, not Jews, and they gathered together as churches, not synagogues. Likewise, of all the seven churches, Smyrna and Philadelphia are addressed as those destined to demonstrate the offices of priest and king. Whereas Smyrna (2:8) is presented with a picture of Jesus "who was dead and has come to life" (first advent, the great High Priest who gave His own life), Philadelphia (3:7) is presented with a picture of Jesus "who has the key of David" (second advent, the King of Kings). Whereas Smyrna will suffer tribulation and death just as her High Priest Jesus, Philadelphia will be treated as a king by her enemies who "will come and bow down" at their feet. Philadelphia and Smyrna are therefore two lampstands (ethnic Jewish churches) that stand and exhibit characteristics of the priestly and kingly offices (the two olive trees). Measured for ministryThe act of "measuring" both of these churches apart from the five gentile churches ("court which is outside") relates to enabling these two churches to accomplish their special prophetic task, whether they find themselves in the heat of persecution (as in Smyrna) or in a position of relative safety (as in Philadelphia). In the same way, whether Old Testament prophets were persecuted, as Elijah, or roamed free, as Elisha, they were equally set apart and supernaturally endowed for the service of God.John is supplied "a measuring reed like a ruler's scepter" (11:1). This scepter is not a normal measuring device. The fact that a scepter is to be used for measuring is notice that the results are the function of a king's authority. And the kind of measuring that John is acting out is apparently similar to what King David did when he defeated Moab (2 Sam. 8:2). The measuring in that context meant the difference between life and death for a conquered people.This picture of ethnic Jewish believers being distinguished from and treated differently than gentile believers with whom they share a common identity in the body of Christ, is consistent also with the pictures in Revelation 7, 12, 14, and 15. In chapter 7, the 144,000 of the twelve tribes of Israel share a common identity as servants of God with the great multitude of all the nations, but are distinguished by nationality and the act of sealing. In chapter 12, "the woman" (12:1) and "the rest of her offspring" (12:17) share identity as those who "keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus" but are distinguished in the exclusively Jewish-Christian description of the woman and the special treatment ("place prepared by God," "nourished," "two wings of the great eagle") given her by God during the career of the dragon. In chapter 14, the 144,000 are with the Lord on Mount Zion as "firstfruits" of the Lord's harvest, singing a song no others could learn, while an undesignated group "who had come off victorious from the beast" (15:2) sing the Lord's praises with the phrase, "all the nations will come and worship before You." This last group only comes into our view after the 144,000 are with the Lord, and the subsequent scene of harvest is described (14:14-16). This singling out of a believing Jewish remnant for a powerful prophetic ministry during the time of the great tribulation was prophesied by Joel (Joel 2:28 ff.) and was repeated by the assembled saints on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:17). Joel said that the Spirit was to be poured out upon the sons of Israel without distinction between sex, age, or class ("all flesh"), resulting in a ministry of prophecy and the display of God's power. Two witnesses not two peopleSome commentators have suggested Old Testament prophets such as Moses and Elijah as historically typical of the two witnesses or are coming again to be the two witnesses. Indeed, some such Old Testament individuals or scenarios may be typical of the Revelation scene. A likely pair whose case strongly resembles the present scene are Moses and Aaron. They filled the offices of priest and king in Israel in opposition to the wicked Pharaoh and his magician priests. In that case, we also see God's supernatural power granted in opposition to the diabolical power of Pharaoh's priests.However likely it is that Moses and Aaron or others are typical of the two witnesses' ministry, the language of chapter 11 does not support the suggestion that the two witnesses are two individual persons. The text states that they are "the two lampstands that stand," a direct reference to the churches of Philadelphia and Smyrna. The singular nouns "mouth" (11:5) and "body" (11:8-9) properly express functions of a large body of people but would be linguistic errors in reference to two persons. The beast is said to "make war with them and kill them" at the conclusion of their testimony. Such a description does not fit the simple execution of two persons. Next, we are notified that their dead "body" (singular, not plural) lies (verb supplied by translators) “in the street of the great city.” Because the phrase "the great city" is discovered to be a reference to the "woman" (great harlot) of chapters 17 and 18, who personifies the multiplied Babylon-like cities of the world, a great number of dead are envisioned lying in the streets of the world's cities. It was here in the Babylon-like world-city that Jesus was crucified. In addition, the wide number of those from "the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations" who look at their dead bodies speaks of a large number of dead bodies distributed widely. Nothing in the text of chapter 11 leads us to hypothesize two individual persons; but everything about the text and the further context of Revelation leads us to the two churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. Two witnesses and the trumpetsAs the witnesses fulfill their prophetic calling in the context of the beast's opposition, calamity results on a world-wide scale. A comparison between the description of the two witnesses' miraculous power and the scene from chapter 8 at the beginning of the trumpets brings this picture into sharp focus. In chapter 8, the ascent of the saints' prayers is seen to precede the hail and fire (trumpet one), a great star burning with fire (trumpet two), and a great star burning like a torch (trumpet three), all of which fall consecutively on earth with various consequences, followed by a darkness (trumpet four) and a plague (trumpet five). By comparison, in chapter 11 it is said of the two witnesses that,...if any one desires to harm them, fire proceeds out of their mouth and devours their enemies...these have the power to shut up the sky, in order that rain may not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire. (11:5-6)If "fire proceeds out of their mouth" means that they speak and fire results as Moses spoke and a fiery hail resulted, or Elijah spoke and fire came down from heaven, then the scenes under the trumpets and the ministry of the two witnesses appears to be one and the same. The two witnesses turn water to blood and smite the earth with plagues and call fire down from heaven just as we see under the trumpets. And if to this we add the scene that Joel foresaw, then we conclude that the supernatural calamity under the trumpets is directed from heaven in response to the words of the two witnesses against the ungodly. This is not unlike the case of Israel being delivered from Egypt.Thus we conclude that the two witnesses are the two churches, Philadelphia and Smyrna, demonstrating the priestly and kingly function, composed exclusively of the tribes of Israel. They are set apart from the five gentile churches who will by this time have become compromised by the world to the point where they no longer present themselves as an effective force for the Lord. They will be supported spiritually by faithful gentiles who, as minority members of the five churches, continue to obey and glorify the Lord (cf: Rev. 2-3). The identity of the two witnesses, and the condition of the five gentile churches, provides a chilling reminder of Paul's words to the Romans,You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, and you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you (Rom. 11:19-21).
The Two Witnesses
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I agree with alot of this post and disagree with many parts of it the secret of these two churches Smyrna and Philadelphia that God was pleased with do have one thing in common the teaching of Jews who they are Jews but are Not. But few understand this deep meat of Gods Word this is called "The Key of David" it is the key to understanding the Entire Plan of God It is not just the understanding the Jew and Christian relationship with God and each other it is also the key to understanding the negative side of scripture that is Who the enemy is, was, and still is that is Satan and his tares Its the key to understanding that from the beginning God has battled against this enemythat has waged War on him and his children Who are these people ?That is the Key the church of Smyrna and Philadelphia teach these truths.They understand who the enemy is. How he has worked his iniquity from the beginningHow he/they worked to crucify our Lord to slip falsities into the teachings through mens words and traditions to confuse a true understanding of our Father. God has told us everything in his word but few are hearing or understanding the teachings of Smyrna and Philidelphia. Its not about understanding Jew and Christain its about understanding. The two forces of Good (God)and evil (Satan)and how try as they might God has overcome Won the war through the blood of Jesus Christ In short it is the Key to understang the all of it from begining to end that is "The Key of David"And I dont agree that two witness are not two people for God says I will send you Elijah before the great Day of the Lordand do not think these people that work to destroy God's plan are Jews scripture says clearly they are not
Notice that I carefully supported each of the things I wrote. If you plan on being taken seriously please offer something in the way of reason and support from the language, text, author John, other writers or something. To simply blast away with unsupported assertion is simply internnet unprofessional jabber language. I mean this only to improve your posts. samy
It doesnt much matter if the support isnt accurate I have no problem supporting every word I say on this site with scripture unless I say its my opinion so before you go off on me I suggest you take some time to look around I was simply saying I agree with parts and disagree with parts I wasnt debating you about in that post just making coment but you wanna debate I am game.
Excellent! You are up. Make the first point and rebut one of mine. I'll try to be kinder this time in my relpy. samy
First let me say I admire you got the fact that Smyrna and Philadelphia are the only two churches that God was pleased with and you got the reason in there also something that escapes most peoples attention though I think there is a fuller meaning than you have gone into Im impressed. It is with the two wittness's I take issue this is a comentary but it does not fit all scriptures I have toyed with the idea that it was not two people but if there's one thing I have learned its that you have to be able to include all scripture about a subject to come up with the right answer. I dont agree with all the descriptions of the events of the End so lets cover basicsRevelation 11:1 "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God,"This "reed" John was given, was not for making a measurement. The reed was a "scepter"; a rod not for building something, but for destruction. The destruction is for the tearing down of the temple of God, the altar, and all of them that worship within. The reason for this destruction is because at this time the Antichrist will be sitting on the throne of God in the temple, making sacrifice to himself, and the people of the world will believe he is God.This is the time of the "abomination by the desolator", spoken of in Daniel 9:27, and at that time, Satan, the "son of perdition" will be revealed in the temple at Jerusalem, as recorded in II Thessalonians 2:2-4.II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."Revelation 11:3 "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."this focus is on the last three and an half days which brings about the last days before our Lord Jesus Christ's return. God is placing these two witnesses on earth for the sole purpose of witnessing for Him. They will warn all of mankind, and the "sackcloth" indicates that this warning of their sins is to be their only mission. Notice also that the time of the two witnesses witnessing are given in days. These witnesses are of the children of light, and their message is of God. When you compare the forty two months of Antichrist from Daniel 9, with the 1,260 days of the two witnesses, they are the same.Revelation 11:4 "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of this earth."In Zechariah 4:3, 11, and 14, these two witnesses are the "olive trees" that are spoken of there as you have pointed out The "candlesticks" represent the churches, and we saw in Revelation 2, and 3, that there are only two churches, or types of churches that God will respect at the close of this earth age. Those were the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia. I believe we agree to this point Now the if the churches are candlesticks the two wittness are the olive trees. Antichrist/ Satan is upon the earth Revelation 11:5 "And if any man will [desireth to] hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will [shall desire to] hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."The subject here is, "Who is fit for God to use at this time?" That doesn't mean who is going to heaven or hell; we are talking about who the "servants of God" are. Others will be saved out of all the churches.When the two witnesses appear on earth and they start their witnessing, there will be no doubt who they are. Many religious leaders today speculate, and name names, but that is not important here. You will know them by their words, if you are in tune with God's Word. These two witnesses will shed their blood as martyrs in the streets of Jerusalem,. The power they use to defend themselves will be given by God when the Antichrist arrives in person. That power will end exactly three and a half days before the sounding of the seventh trumpet. That will be because God has written it in His book. This is an important sign for all of the elect for the end is at hand. Christ will return at the seventh trumpRevelation 11:6 "These [witnesses] have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they [the witnesses] will.""These", are the two witnesses. The "waters" that these two witnesses have power over are the nations, and peoples of this earth [Revelation 17:15]. There is power granted to these two to smite peoples and nations. They can call down these plagues whenever it is necessary. Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit [abyss] shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them."The two witnesses' purpose for being on the earth at this time, was to be a testimony against Satan, the Antichrist. By doing this, they are also a witness to God's elect, of His Word. When this testimony is over, Satan the Antichrist will rise up and kill both of them. Satan is the "beast out of the bottomless pit". We read this in Revelation 9:1. When Satan kills the two witnesses, he will have taken all the conflict that he can stand by these two witness, and go against God's order to "touch not those who have the seal of God in their foreheads." Revelation 11:8 "And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sod'-om and E'-gypt, where also our Lord was crucified."The two witnesses' bodies will lie in the "street", which in the Greek text reads "plateia", or "broad place", which, more then likely is a stadium or a large hall in Jerusalem. It is then that the entire world will celebrate. This also will set off a chain of events, and many of the prophecies throughout the Bible will occur in the next three and one half days.In the mind of the Antichrist [Satan], he has put down the only thing that hindered his claim to deity. Satan's throne is in the temple of God in Jerusalem, as Daniel says this is where the abomination will occur in the holy of holies this is the temple Mt. in Jerusalem so we are in Jerusalem While the witnesses were alive, their powers made not only the Antichrist's life, but the lives of the whole world just plain miserable. Even many Christians will think that these witnesses were evil, because of what these witnesses said about the Antichrist, whom their traditions have taught them to think and worship as the true Christ. These two witnesses were also the ones who made these Christian's lives physically and mentally pushed to the limit. All, that is, except God's "elect". This three and one half days [84 hours] period is going to be a short lived victory celebration for them.The key to understand that the location of this happening is in Jerusalem, is in the term, "Where also our Lord was crucified." Jerusalem was referred to as "Sodom and Egypt" in Isaiah 1:9-10, and Ezekiel 16:46, as well as many other passages. The Holy Spirit of God, thus points to Jerusalem as the only place possible, to make that location completely clear. When these two people are slaughtered in Jerusalem by the one that the world thinks to be God, and the people of the whole earth start their many day celebration because of that murder, know that the time of the murder started the last 84 hours, [three and a half days] before the sounding of the seventh trumpet, and our Lord's return.Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."Through electronic means, and many visiting in person, the entire world will view, and witness the dead bodies of the two witnesses laying in this arena over the next three and a half days. Why?It is obvious that these two are witnessing they are from Jesus the true Christ. Part of their testimony will be from the witness that if they be killed, their bodies will arise in three and a half days to meet the true Christ. Satan and his followers will be thinking at this time, "We're not going to let someone come and steal these bodies in the night." This was the same accusation that was made when Christ arose some two thousand years earlier. So there the witnesses lay, while the world watched and celebrated.These physical bodies will be doing only one thing for three and a half days; "rotting". Revelation 11:10 "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."The entire earth's population will be celebration over this one, except God's elect. God's elect, those seal in their mind with the truth know the end is only a matter of days and hours. At the end of this celebration, the witnesses will come alive. When they come alive, the torment will be as a terror that has never been. The Christians that have worshipped Antichrist will know they have been taken in by the Antichrist, and the grace that they had is simply not extended to them. Even more tragic to that is the fact that they will face the True Christ as a Harlot, and an unfaithful bride. Think of the shame that will fall on them at this time. Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."After the three and a half days, this is what happens in Jerusalem. God will send those spiritual souls back to enter into the two rotting flesh bodies, and these two witness will stand to their feet. When this happens, and the cameras are focused upon the two witnesses, the people of the entire world are going to come under much fear. The people will not be just afraid, but a life threatening terror. And as the two witnesses stood to their feet, this "paralyzing fear ["epipipto" in the Greek]" will grip the entire world, especially the Christians who have worshipped the Antichrist.
a well fetched theory, but that's a bit too fetched don't you think? first of all, there is no scripture that says the two witnesses in the book of revelation are churches, and more specifically, it doesn't say that the two witnesses are the churches, philadelphia and symra, and that's fact. that's amazing how you came to draw such a conclusion based on private interpretations. da vinci code, much? i think mr. fantastic would be suprised how far you made that stretch. you can't just take symbols and point it in one direction and hope it'll hit something, and even if it does hit, doesn't necessarily mean it's the correct interpretation. we have to be careful when we make descisions like those, because we end up making a mind-set which we aint sure is the correct interpretation, and then we pass it off like it's the truely inspired interpretation, and possibly mis-leading other people in the process.if the two witnesses are the churches Philadelphia and Smyrna, don't you think the lord would of said that simply? don't you think our lord would of been more clear and told John "hey, the 2 witnesses are not people, i aint going to lie to you, they're actually the churches smyrna & philadelphia". but no, not according to you, you think that this was hidden, and the answer lays in other scriptures in the bible, and we have to look deep in the bible to find it. that's pretty funny.level of interpretation: Difficultlevel of execution: very poor lol
Jesus told John in Revelation chapter 1 verse 20 that the 7 lampstands are the 7 churches. Then in chapter 11 he tells him the two witnesses are the two lampstands that stand. That is not me, that is Jesus! samy
yes, but jesus didn't say that those 2 lampstands(2 witnesses) were of the lampstands from the 7 churches, he only said the 2 witnesses are 2 lampstands, not that they are 2 lampstands from the 7 churches. you made the assumption that jesus was referring to the same lampstands from the 7 churches.here's the scriptures itself from Revelation 11:4:"These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth."it doesn't say, that these are the 2 lampstands from the 7 churches. it just says they are 2 lampstands standing before god, that is what jesus said. stop putting words in our lord's mouth lol
Please notice that when Jesus addresses the 7 lampstands, 5 are in sin. "Fallen," is the word chosen by the Lord Jesus in Rev 2:5, to describe Ephesus, the best of the five sinning churches. 2 of the churches, lampstands, Smyrna and Philadelphia are standing, "before the Lord," as all churches always are before the Lord. I go only by the words that come out of His mouth. Your zeal is admirable. samy.
Hold on a minute lets stop with our opinions and look at all the scriptures it doesnt matter if any of us is right or wrong what does God say to find out we need to include Mal.Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD : 'Eliyah Elijah or Eliah = "my God is Jehovah" or "Yah(u) is Godfrom the two hebrew words of el and ayil meaning:'el "1) god, god-like one, mighty onea) mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
angels'ayil 1) ram2) pillar, door post, jambs, pilaster3) strong man, leader, chief4) mighty tree, terebinthfrom the root Word: uwl'uwl from an unused root meaning to twist, i.e. (by implication) be strong1 mighty 1, strengthWe must include all verses to get a picture we are told that before the Day of Lord which we know is the 7th trump (After the two wittness's are been killed and resurrected)But the term Day of the Lord gives us the time frame that Elijah will be sent we are told he is sent from the Lord so the Hebrew tells us he is a mighty one of God a strong one,a leader a chief, a tree (as in strong) here we see the root Word is related a tree (olive tree?) This is one prohphet not a church and God says he will send him in the End timesbut we are told no other place or reason Elijah would come. But to be a wittness for God. So can we conclude that Elijah is one of the wittness's to come ?Now if We look at 1 kings (17 & 18) We see that lack of rain is one of the themes associated with Elijah1Ki 17:1 ¶ And Elijah the Tishbite, [who was] of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, [As] the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word. Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.It is also interesting to note 1 Kings We will see that Elijah is brought here at a time when all Israel has sunk to the lowest depth of sin and depravity, and the wicked Zidonian queen Jezebel is ruling with Abab on the throne over the ten tribes of the house of IsraelJezebel was truly a wicked queen, for not only did she bring in all the forms of Baal worship, of grove and Ashtorath, but she forced all the people to take those filthy practices to themselves. Remember how the prior chapter ended in verse 33; "And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him." Ahab went along with this wicked queen, and made her orders his. Ahab took all forms of worshipping God completely out of the house of Israel. So Elijah showed up on the capital steps, to call attention to their sins, and to bring a curse upon all Israel. The curse was first cast by Joshua, for Joshua stated that who ever rebuilt Jericho, God would place a curse on that man and upon his sons from the first to the last. Ahab was the one to allow the city of Jericho to be rebuilt. Elijah has now placed a curse on the land, for no rain shall fall, but "according to my word".This is the reason that Jezebel so hated the Prophet Elijah. Again, it was God that sent Elijah and gave him the words, and power to do and say what he would. So we see God gave Elijah the Words and Power to cut off the Rain because of the wickness of Aahab and JezabelA type teaching of Antichrist If one wittness is a man (Elijah) then the other can not be the two churchs.So now we are left with one. ?
Do we have a clue Elijah is the prophet of all prophets, because of what happened on the mount of transfiguration. There Jesus was transfigured and in the presence of Moses and Elijah, as witnessed by Peter, James and John. We know who Elijah is in the company with Moses and Christ Christ being Lord are Elijah and Moses these two wittness's?Matthew 17:1 "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart," Is this sixth day a hint to the 6th trump which is the tribulation of Antichrist? Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light."Matthew 17: 3 "And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him." Moses appeared for the Law, and Elijah (Elias in the Greek) for the Prophets. So we see that Elijah is very special to God. Elijah is brought up as the sign of the closing of this earth age, as recorded in Malachi 4:5, 6; the very close of the Old Testament.Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:"Malachi 4:6 "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."We will see in the book of I Kings that Elijah was taken by God, and he did not die in the flesh body; for when John the Baptist came, he came in the spirit of Elijah. He wasn't Elijah, but "just before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord," Elijah will return to earth to "turn the hearts of all the children to their fathers." There are two fathers, Satan is the first to come, and the Lord Jesus Christ will come second. Satan comes at the sixth trump, while Christ returns at the seventh and last trump. The truth will either turn the heart and mind to Satan, or to Jesus Christ. Remember what we are told about these two wittness the world will rejoice because these thorns in the side of Antichrist are dead all except the Elect So the Wittnessing will turn the hearts of the believers to Antichrist or the true Christ. It is for these reason I believe the Bible tells us Elijah is one of the wittness's and a good chance Moses is the otherthis is why I had to exclude the church/churches as being the wittness's"Elijah"; "God is YHVH", the eternal Father.
Lets stop with the personal barbs here guys I deleted both of your posts Truth_Seeker you obviously dont agree with Samy Ok but obviously he has done some serious study on this he's not just throwing out random statements lets give that some respect please Its like solving a mystery you follow the evidence you have and come to a conclusion based on your evidence then someone comes along an gives you a new clue and the whole thing can change. The point here is to find Gods truth. And to do that we need to find all his clues then put them in perspective truth should be only goal here. lets discuss this like adults pleaseJust saying he's wrong and mocking his work isnt going to solve anything.
my apologies, kriss & samy. yes, i was a bit too harsh, i should of atleast approached the issue my respectively. i'll try to be more responsible in future posts. again, sorry.
Kriss, It is when you write the following, "There are two fathers, Satan is the first to come, and the Lord Jesus Christ will come second. Satan comes at the sixth trump, while Christ returns at the seventh and last trump. The truth will either turn the heart and mind to Satan, or to Jesus Christ. [WHO SAYS?]Remember what we are told about these two wittness [BY WHOM?] the world will rejoice because these thorns in the side of Antichrist are dead all except the Elect So the Wittnessing will turn the hearts of the believers to Antichrist or the true Christ. It is for these reason I believe the Bible tells us Elijah is one of the wittness's and a good chance Moses is the otherthis is why I had to exclude the church/churches as being the wittness's"Elijah"; "God is YHVH", the eternal Father."You must surely understand that I cannot understand where you got this point of view from? Is this some sort of group teaching? Steve
(samy;45168)
Kriss, It is when you write the following, "There are two fathers, Satan is the first to come, and the Lord Jesus Christ will come second. Satan comes at the sixth trump, while Christ returns at the seventh and last trump. The truth will either turn the heart and mind to Satan, or to Jesus Christ. [WHO SAYS?]Remember what we are told about these two wittness [BY WHOM?] the world will rejoice because these thorns in the side of Antichrist are dead all except the Elect So the Wittnessing will turn the hearts of the believers to Antichrist or the true Christ. It is for these reason I believe the Bible tells us Elijah is one of the wittness's and a good chance Moses is the otherthis is why I had to exclude the church/churches as being the wittness's"Elijah"; "God is YHVH", the eternal Father."You must surely understand that I cannot understand where you got this point of view from? Is this some sort of group teaching? Steve
I guess I could have made that a little clearer the whole post was the reason I was summing up not just that statement What I met by turn their hearts are because the two wittness's are hated by the World the ones against the two wittness will obviously be turning hearts toward antichrist the two wittness will be preaching be teaching that we are to wait for true Christ which will make believers turn toward Christ.Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:"Malachi 4:6 "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."(notice the plural form of the word fathers) that is the fake and the realSo another words we have all children either following Antichrist or Christ (the fake father or the real Father)(fathers)this is the dividing of the Wheat from the chaff, the tares from the believers, All will turn to one or the other. So because of the evidence in scripture that Elijah is one wittness, it can not be the two churches and the last line is just Hebrew meaning of Elijah's name
Kriss, It is when you write the following, "There are two fathers, Satan is the first to come, and the Lord Jesus Christ will come second. Satan comes at the sixth trump, while Christ returns at the seventh and last trump. The truth will either turn the heart and mind to Satan, or to Jesus Christ. [WHO SAYS?]Remember what we are told about these two wittness [BY WHOM?] the world will rejoice because these thorns in the side of Antichrist are dead all except the Elect So the Wittnessing will turn the hearts of the believers to Antichrist or the true Christ. It is for these reason I believe the Bible tells us Elijah is one of the wittness's and a good chance Moses is the otherthis is why I had to exclude the church/churches as being the wittness's"Elijah"; "God is YHVH", the eternal Father."You must surely understand that I cannot understand where you got this point of view from? Is this some sort of group teaching? Steve
I guess I could have made that a little clearer the whole post was the reason I was summing up not just that statement What I met by turn their hearts are because the two wittness's are hated by the World the ones against the two wittness will obviously be turning hearts toward antichrist the two wittness will be preaching be teaching that we are to wait for true Christ which will make believers turn toward Christ.Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:"Malachi 4:6 "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."(notice the plural form of the word fathers) that is the fake and the realSo another words we have all children either following Antichrist or Christ (the fake father or the real Father)(fathers)this is the dividing of the Wheat from the chaff, the tares from the believers, All will turn to one or the other. So because of the evidence in scripture that Elijah is one wittness, it can not be the two churches and the last line is just Hebrew meaning of Elijah's name
These two witnesses have always been an interest to me. I believe that these are men and one of them - Elijah (Matt. 17:11) he will come and restore ALL things (this includes the Temple). I believe the two witnesses will be the ones that allow the Jews to rebuild the Temple for 42 months. They will have the power to stop anyone that tries to stop them. Rom. 11 speaks of the Olive tree(Israel) being broken off and the Gentiles being grafted in......The two Olive trees could represent the Israel(Elijah) and the Gentiles(Enoch-Enoch was a Gentile because Jews were not until Abraham). The two witnesses could be these two for this reason.Just a thought.....
No temple to be rebuilt, according to Jesus, matt 24:1-2. Enoch is a grandfather of Abraham. Not properly a gentile. We should not speculate when Jesus tells us point blank that the two witnesses are the two lampstands that stand--and as a matter of fact in the book of revelation there are two lampstands that stand. Why struggle for some other answer. The first rule of hermeneutics is "if the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense!" samy
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