This is total BS. Fake News at its worst. Plus false accusations at their worst. Why don't you quit your lying and deal with truth? The Devil is the father of lies, so take a good hard look at what you are trying to accomplish.
The Absurdity of Preterism
- Thread starter Enoch111
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Nancy
Well-Known Member
We can only read the scriptures as they are presented to us. We I hear about these "bad translations" allot, and I'm sure there are but then...who is to say which are bad ones and which are not? And, yes indeed there are MANY false prophets and teachers out there. My beliefs lie where the Holy Spirit has brought me thus far, and I bet we will not find one person on here that believes exactly, 100% the same in every single area of all things concerning God. Back in the early 90's I got my empty fill of all those false teachers. I have grown in discernment since then. So, sincere seekers can still be fooled if they are careless; whether it be a false teacher or misinterpreting scripture. I have to trust He is leading me rightly, He could be leading someone else in a totally different way but always, rightly. JMO
bbyrd009
Groper
- Nov 30, 2016
- 33,943
- 12,081
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States Minor Outlying Islands
wherein the word "return" is specifically not used, so let's at least say it right, the Bible quite clearly never states "Jesus Shuvu" or "Christ Shuvu" a single time, and you are immediately left groping for synonyms that affirm your premises rather than seeking truth here
putting it nicely ok
shuvu is hebrew for return
lol ok, go with that then Naomi, but fwiw every one of those Qs has been addressed in Scripture already, and i am here even acknowledging that Christ will appear and/or be revealed, and in some syntax even come, should the translator choose that word that unfortunately for you in English has literal overtones that you are just going to combine with desire and hear harder i guess. Old age comes, too, right.
or i guess that sounds mean or something, when i don't mean this at all, all are deceived, and love believes all things
Christ comes in a day or hour no one knows bc no one knows when you will return to Him, see. "Why is there a "coming" except that there was first a "going"?" Bc Galileans, why do you stand there looking up into the sky? is why. Iow so that we can quote "i will see Him come down the same way they saw Him go up" and imagine that we are following or Quoting Scripture
Last edited:
The Dispensationalist says WHAAAAAAA "That is total BS"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I charge dispies with Satanism! Show me I'm wrong, if you can!
You tell me I'm lying, but you don't support your claim.
Jesus told "Jews" that they're of their father the devil.
Dispies say "Jews" are God's chosen people.
Therefor Dispies claim Satan's children are God's people, thus Dispies are Satanic.
Tell me where my logic fails, and don't lie. Come on, let's settle this!
bbyrd009
Groper
- Nov 30, 2016
- 33,943
- 12,081
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States Minor Outlying Islands
! that is what most people think, i believed that forever myself, but we are deceived here, and the truth is in the passage:
11As they were listening to this, He went on to tell a parable because He was near Jerusalem, and they thought the kingdom of God was going to appear right away.
14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, We don't want this man to rule over us!' (not a follower's response to Christ iow)
15"At his return, having received the authority to be king, he summoned those slaves he had given the money to, so he could find out how much they had made in business. (not what Christ commissions us to do...etc)
21because I was afraid of you, for you're a tough man: you collect what you didn't deposit and reap what you didn't sow.' (also a big clue)
so it ends up being a response to their perceptions, which were innocent but still evil. "and they thought the kingdom of God was going to appear right away."
iow the parable was told bc they thought they were about to get paid, so to speak,
the same perception most Christians have right now right
Last edited:
Yes let's settle this with Scripture.
1. WHO WAS CHRIST ADDRESSING WHEN HE SAID THAT?
Who was Christ addressing when He said "Ye are of your father the devil..." (Jn 8:44)? It was (a) the scribes and the Pharisees, (b) the enemies of Christ who supposedly believed on Him, but then accused Him of blasphemy and sought to stone Him.
Which means that these people -- NOT ALL THE JEWS -- hated Christ, and they were the ones who plotted His death.
A. THE SCRIBES AND PHARISEES
And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst (v 3)
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.(v 6)
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. (v 7)
The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. (v 13)
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? (v 19)
B. THE JEWS WHO SUPPOSEDLY BELIEVED ON CHRIST
Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come. (v 22)
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? (v 25)
They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. (v 27)
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; (v 31)
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? (v 33)
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. (v 39) ["If ye were Abraham's children" confirms that these Jews had not truly believe God and Christ]
Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. (v 41) [More confirmation that these were not genuine believers]
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (v 44) [THIS IS SAID WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF ALL THAT IS SHOWN ABOVE]
Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? (v 48) [MORE CONFIRMATION THAT THEY WERE ENEMIES OF CHRIST]
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. (v 52)
Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? (v 53)
Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. (v 59)
2. IS VEXATIOUS ENGAGING IN DELIBERATE SLANDER?
Now here is what Vexatious said (as quoted above): "Dispies say "Jews" are God's chosen people.Therefor Dispies claim Satan's children are God's people, thus Dispies are Satanic."
It should be clear to any fair-minded Christian that this slanderous accusation against genuine Dispensationalist Christians is not only a complete lie, but in itself it is Satanic. The above verses clearly show that Christ was addressing His enemies, those who would have stoned Him for so-called blasphemy. But he paints ALL JEWS with the same brush by taking a verse out of context.
It is perfectly clear from the Bible record that after the resurrection of Christ THOUSANDS of Jews believed on Him. The church at Jerusalem was a Jewish church. Furthermore, Paul made it perfectly clear in Romans 9-11 that God was not finished with Israel, and that "all Israel shall be saved" in the future.
So in view of this post, Vexatious owes all Dispensationalists a sincere apology for his evil-speaking, which should now come to an end. If it does not, I will request the moderators to ban this person who calls himself "Vexatious" and then engages in vexatious slander over and over again.
Negative. Read on a little farther, and you will find Jesus was addressing "the Jews who believed Him." (I looked up that very point yesterday.) The Bible describes them no further.
Why did you fail to read my post properly? The Bible does describe them further and very clearly as enemies of Christ. They SUPPOSEDLY believed on Him, and the context makes it crystal clear, since they took up stones to stone Him.
No, you explicitly said it was the Pharisees and scribes He was addressing. (which He WAS... earlier) And, I said it was now a different group He addressed at this time. If you think claiming an "a" and a "b" make that distinction, you may need to work on it a little.
Naomi25
Well-Known Member
- Aug 10, 2016
- 3,199
- 1,801
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
Just FYI...that was me doing a quick synopsis of what Dispensationalist believe. It is not what I believe. But I can totally understand how it would have confused you!
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Deuteronomy 7:6-8
"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. "The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."
Amos 3:1-2
Hear this word which the LORD has spoken against you, sons of Israel, against the entire family which He brought up from the land of Egypt: "You only have I chosen among all the families of the earth; Therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities."
Romans 11:1-2
"I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?"
There are only like, a gazillion CLEAR verses. I know I could give you, like 20 more but, you probably already "know" them much better than I.
Gods Blessings!
A. Scribes and Pharisees are Jews, common Jews. They're still Jews. They're still children of the devil. They still are what dispies claim are God's people. (Also, you're assuming that when when the chapter here simply refers to "Jews", that Jesus it talking to just Scribes and Pharisees mentioned earlier, not that it matters. )
B. (Why do you insert "supposedly", the Bible says there are Jew who believed?) The modern definition of Jew, shared by all modern Jews, excludes believers in Christ. In the Bible, Jews who become Believers, after the resurrection, were not called Jews. Dispies, you, believe that Jews who reject Jesus are God's people. The only relevant definition here are those Jews who reject Jesus.
C. Congratulations on ignoring Jesus' explanation for why he called the Jews the children of Satan, "If God were you father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here."
What from the pit of Hell makes you think calling these Jews enemies of Christ helps your case? They're Jews Jesus called the children of Satan and Dispies call God's people. But, Jesus didn't explain his comment by saying they were his enemies. Jesus explained himself by saying they didn't love him. All modern Jews are enemies of Christ, more or less. Their universal dogma is rejection of Jesus. And some do everything in their power to oppress Christians. They're still Jews. They're still children of Satan. They're still what you dispies call God's people.
All you proved here is that you can't even begin to raise a defense against a the charge of of satanism at the core of Dispensationalism.
The Jews couldn't refute Jesus, so they wanted him dead. You can't refute me so you want me banned.
It's a poor style of argument to try to present contradictions, unless your goal is to prove the Bible is full of errors. Also, it's a poor style of argument to try to refute very clear verses (Jesus told "Jews" that they'er of the devil because they don't love him) with, at best, vague verses (vague on the topic).
Those passages speak of a nation, not of individuals. The Israelites were to kick out of the nation anyone who rejected God. (And, anyone could convert and join the nation.) The Israelite nation was equivalent to a modern physical church congregation. The church is a body of God's people, but that doesn't mean everyone in the church belongs to God. You would never say all members of a given church are God's people, would you? And, if a whole church becomes apostate, it's time to end that church. When Jesus pointed out that Jews are children of the devil, he was speaking unbelieving individuals, not a nation.
Th verses preceding what you quoted is: Deuteronomy 7:3 You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, 4 for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly.
See here, they are Believers. And, God warns them if they turn away, God would destroy them. This later came to be. They turned away, and God said they were not his people (Hos 1:9, and God destroyed them). When they turned away from God, they were no longer God's people, and God no longer preserved them. Which proves my point, apart from faith, no one is God's people.
Dispies, doing Satan's work, have caused a great deal of confusion over the role of faith and who the people of God are. Believers, those of faith before and after Christ, are the true Israel, where all members are God's people.
Naomi25
Well-Known Member
- Aug 10, 2016
- 3,199
- 1,801
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
Well. Let me think a minute. Barak Obama intiated a deal with Iran that he didn't even bother to pass through his own Congress (dodgy from the outset), and decided to give Iran billions of dollars in CASH, Iran who is a state sponsor of multiple terrorist groups. Iran who "promised" America that they would, in exchange for this money, slow (not stop) their nuclear program. This is the same Iran who chants "Death to America" mind you, and, as a tenant of Islam thinks it is not only permissible, but necessary to lie to the "infidels". So it didn't really come as a surprise, did it, when it was "discovered" that Iran had taken the money, spent it on terroism instead of their own starving people, and continued merrily in their nuclear aspirations in secret.
No...the question should not be "Was Trump right in ending the Iran deal"...the question should be "who in the world could be foolish enough to think a dot of that deal was not dodgy in the extreme and needed to be jettisoned immediately." America was being PLAYED.
Uh ha. And Jesus hung out with Prostitutes and thieves and sinners. And encouraged his followers to do the same to seek the lost. Which means we're all hanging out with peeps like those. Who believe all sorts of things! Goodness, the horrible things we are condoning by hanging with people who hold to some beliefs! Because we know that beliefs are like venereal diseases. One touch and we're done!
I'm sorry for the sarcasm, but you are so far off the conspiracy deep end here, I cannot take you seriously. So...the 'dispies' i know are hanging with people who hold to "Antchristian" doctrine (reference: other people) and therefore it's the dispies fault that Iraq happened. * I mean, what? *
So...you know every "dispie"? You have seen them interact? You see who they pray for, what outreach they support?
Such a claim borders on the ridiculous!
Dispensationalists don't hesitate to call a terrorist group a terrorist group. Hamas? Terrorist group. Plain and simple. I don't care how you want to slap a "poor Palestine" label on it, they are terrorists. And I applaude the Dispensationalists for that. If the world stop bending over backwards for the PA and Hamas, then the people of Palestine who are suffering under THEM, not Israel, then something positive might actually be achieved. Nothing ever will be while terrorists use every cent to bomb an enemy they compulsively hate.
But as far as Dispensationalists hating Muslims...you clearly haven't been around their water cooler enough to hear of some of the amazing work and outreach that they are doing. So...you are in ignorance, and your accusations are in error.
Yeah, I don't think you do. Because you are consistently misrepresenting them. That's bearing false witness, and I don't think that's cool.
Do they think National Israel is Gods "chosen people"? Yeah, they do, but they do not see it as a "ticket to salvation" kind of 'chosen'. They still see coming to Christ as a necessity for every person, Jew or Gentile. They also see the Church as chosen, but of a different sort. I think they're wrong in this, but the main, and important part is: Christ is needed for salvation. That's the essential doctrine that cannot be denied or put aside, and they hold to that. That puts them within orthodoxy, and, as I said before, your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Nope, they don't.
How Could They Get To Heaven? – Grace thru faith
They, like the rest of us, acknowledge that the OT saints had faith in God and that was counted to them as righteousness. Perhaps they didn't know the exact details of that salvation (the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ), but ultimately it was their faith in God, (as seen in Hebrews) that saw them saved, not in following the Mosaic laws, or by being a "Jew". Again...I don't know who you've been reading/listening too, but come in from the fringes....
And don't evangelize in Israel??? Half the "dispies" I listen too are "messianic jews" who live, preach and share the gospel in their own land! And that's just them. Half of Evangelical America is either over in Israel touring and preaching, or planning to get there! And we have this amazing thing called social media these days. All these Evangelicals are shouting from the roof tops Christ. Golly, my Facebook feed is stuffed full of them!
You've been drinking dispy kool-aid. Dispies spread lies in pursuit of murder, and you accuse Iranians of chanting "Death to America". The US gave Iran back their own money. Iran doesn't sponsor terrorists any more than the US or Israel does. Iran was in full compliance of the nuclear deal that Trump pulled the US out of. Iran has no nuclear weapons program. These are facts, but they don't lead to the US mass-murdering Iranians so your fellow Dispies reject these facts.
Jesus didn't hang out with prostitutes and thieves. Jesus hung out with ex-sinners, people who had repented. Besides, that's not the point. Even if Jesus associated with sinners, he wasn't one of them. Any dispy that isn't a blood-thirsty liar hangs is still one of them.
The Palestinians are an occupied people, don't they have a right to fight back? Plain and simple. If your fellow dispies aren't liars, then tell me what good Palestinians should agree to, for peace? Your answer will be disgusting, and I can even tell you that before you give your answer.
The stuff you've posted is the fruit of their hatred of Muslims.
If you think I'm misrepresenting dispies, show I'm wrong. Tell me of a US intelligence report that says Iran has a nuclear weapons program. Tell me about your peace plan.
Half the dispies you listen to are messianic jews? Considering that approximately 98% of dispies aren't messianic Jews, your personal experience isn't representative of dispies.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
With this I have to disagree. So Vexation doesn’t believe in dispensationalism, so what, so he has slandered and misrepresented what dispensationalist believe, are there not likewise on this forum those who have done the same to some of our Catholic friends and their beliefs, have they been banned? No!
As Bible Students we likewise believe in dispensationalism as it is taught in the scriptures, but just because someone disagrees with us we would not have them banned. How far would this banning go, should we start a list of all those things we don’t agree with and have all who disagree with us banned? There wouldn’t be anyone left on this forum save a few non-believers who would cackle amongst themselves at all these foolish believers.
Being persecuted for ones religious beliefs has been taking place for centuries, but it is how that persecution is received by us which is important, important to God, for it is part of our testing, even so was our Lord so persecuted.
True. But calling Christians "Satanic" for beliefs which conform to Scripture is unacceptable. That goes well beyond simply disagreeing.
Your belief is that those of their father the devil are God's people. That is satanic. If you don't like it, repent.
Naomi25
Well-Known Member
- Aug 10, 2016
- 3,199
- 1,801
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
Um. Its not a secret that they chant 'death to America'. Look it up man, it's not hard, there are videos all over the internet. The rocket they just fired on October 5th against a target in Syria (in retaliation for the shootings they had at their military parade last month) had "Death to America, Death to Israel, Death to Saudi Arabia" painted on the side of the missile. Again...news. Fact, not fiction or "kool aid".
Even just looking at the comments under this video is enlightening.
Iran launches ballistic missile bearing 'Death to America' message
Iran Launches Missile Into Syria Bearing ‘Death to America’ Message
Iran fires ballistic missiles at Syria militants over attack
World War 3: Iran launches 'DEATH TO AMERICA' missiles in nighttime strike
I think you're getting your order out of wack. He hung with prostitutes and theives while they were in their sin, and then told them to sin no more because they were forgiven.
And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” -Matthew 9:10–13
One of the reasons the Pharisees hated Jesus is because he hung with sinners. If Jesus only came to be with those who were "ex-sinners", then they had no need of his forgiving work on the cross. You've just done away with the whole gospel.
And no, no one said Jesus was a sinner. Don't know where you got that from.
What on earth are you talking about? Blood thirsty liar? Man, you are so twisted up in your hatred, that you are not seeing straight. The truth could smack you, repeatedly, between the eyes and you wouldn't see it. The "dispies" that you so disprespectfully call them, that I know, were such good, loving people, such Christ honoring and loving people, that it makes this accusation of yours a joke. You truly don't know what you're talking about. Swallowed up in hate, it seems. It's sad. But, at least it is an answer to why you make statements that are simply not true. Extreme Leftist do that as well, I've found. Reason and reality don't really come into the picture.
Ok, let me ask you this: is it okay for Hamas to hide there bases under their children's schools, assuming that if they do Israel won't fire upon them? Such brave warriors! Is it okay for them to make their children start releasing the incendiary balloons when Israel started to shoot the grown men who let them go, after putting up with months of them burning their crops, forests, bees, etc? Is it okay, in the "right of return" protests, to push children and women to the front, hoping that they will get shot so they can scream at the world camera's that Israel is so brutal and unfair? Is it okay that the PA has, over the years, been offered amazing land and peace deals by Israel (look it up dude, historical fact) and have refused every. single. time. You want to know why? The Palestinians don't want peace. They want every single Jew dead.
So...let me ask you this question. I see you are from America, so I will take a little liberty from your Countries history. If a gang of American Indians came to your door and demanded that your house, your property was on land that was historically theirs and was therefore rightfully theirs, would you just go "ok" and plan to move out? What if they weren't happy for you to just move out, what if they wanted to slaughter you and your family so that they could move in? Do you just accept that, or do you fight to protect yourself and your family?? Especially if that land, had historically belonged to your people even before the American Indians had been there. Where does land rights start or end??
What the world is basically demanding of Israel is to lower her guns while Islamic people who have been QUITE CLEAR about their intentions towards Israel, swamp them and kill them. No other people or nation in the world would put up with that. It's hypocrisy, plain and simple, and much worse than that besides.
Man, you come on here spewing hatred, bias, and, quite frankly, incorrect data. I have posted websites backing up the stuff I've said. So, to be upfront, the onus in on you. You prove that the hate your coming out with has any sort of basis in reality. I can't see how you can, because you'd have to prove the intentions of the majority of Dispensationialists. Do you know the majority? Have them on speed dial?? Even a link or two would be better than nothing...which is what you've thus far provided. You accuse me of "not showing", or "misrepresenting"...dude, I'm still in front of you!!
Last edited:
Nancy
Well-Known Member
What do you think a nation is comprised of if not "individuals"?
Spot on, sister.
Similar threads
