The Problem With The Trinity

bbyrd009 said:

and no, i do not find that satan fought any battle, which would imply that God had to "fight" satan to eject him from heaven, wadr.

i know this Hegelian...stuff is what we are raised on, and this is not a comfortable perspective to hold right away, which is why i suggest Scripture on the matter, and let's go from there. Meaning that when you cannot find any, tag me if you like and we can go from there, and fwiw i have no idea where it might go from there either.

There is no spiritual fight to have, and neither can one be Quoted, even if you can get close, and this is for the same reason the Jesus cannot be Quoted ever "returning," or most of the other tenets that derive from our doctrines, given to us by Paul's wolves

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What's going on man? Do you count on the fact that most people are not Bereans and therefore don't look up scriptures that are referenced?

Paul's wolves would be those who reject the inspired writings of the Holy Spirit through Paul.

justbyfaith said:

Paul's wolves would be those who reject the inspired writings of the Holy Spirit through Paul.

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ok, i'm not interested in defining Paul's wolves for anyone else, but you are inferring that your pov is at odds with the characterization in some way, and i'm not quite getting how sorry, bc i would agree with your def there close enough for discussion. Those who run the Established church--"will rush in as soon as i leave" iow--have rejected the inspired writings, yes

bbyrd009 said:

Easter is a pagan goddess that has nothing whatsoever to do with Passover, which is what is written, and you can celebrate Easter for the rest of your life, i won't judge you, but you cannot change what was written, sorry, and neither can the Queen

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It depends on how you view Easter. As a Christian, I view it as Resurrection Day.

The devil hates this; this is what I know.

The devil is afraid that the celebration of Easter will explode into a revelation to the world that Jesus is risen from the dead. So he is attempting to destroy the holiday before that happens.

bbyrd009 said:

ok, i'm not interested in defining Paul's wolves for anyone else, but you are inferring that your pov is at odds with the characterization in some way, and i'm not quite getting how sorry, bc i would agree with your def there close enough

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Then stay true to the doctrine found in Paul's epistles; and you will not be considered by the Lord to be one of those wolves.

priceless, um ty
guess i just got a massage or something lol

justbyfaith said:

It depends on how you view Easter. As a Christian, I view it as Resurrection Day.

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it depends upon how much scribed up Scripture you are willing to swallow, seems to me. I mean listen to yourself now, "I am a Christian, an ambassador for Christ, and i say worshipping Ishtar and giving her a day is just fine with me, nevermind what the writings really say, or that i can only find Ishtar/Oester in the Queenie's version, and for sure don't pay any attention to all the fertility symbols" i mean look, doing it in ignorance is one thing, i did that for a long time myself, i am not implying that any sin has occurred in that case ok. but that was then, and this is now. i don't expect you to remove the KJV from its shrine today either ok, i understand, i worshipped it too, bc i like candy too lol
4And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Acts 12:4 Lexicon: When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people.

Study to shew thyself approved. Don't minister the word unless you know what it is really teaching.

bbyrd009 said:

it depends upon how much scribed up Scripture you are willing to swallow, seems to me. I mean listen to yourself now, "I am a Christian, an ambassador for Christ, and i say worshipping Ishtar and giving her a day is just fine with me, nevermind what the writings really say, or that i can only find Ishtar/Oester in the Queenie's version, and for sure don't pay any attention to all the fertility symbols" i mean look, doing it in ignorance is one thing, i did that for a long time myself, i am not implying that any sin has occurred in that case ok. but that was then, and this is now. i don't expect you to remove the KJV from its shrine today either ok, i understand, i worshipped it too, bc i like candy too lol
4And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Acts 12:4 Lexicon: When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people.

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The devil is afraid of Easter as a holiday and seeks to promote the pagan side of it so that the side of it that is truly Christian will never come to the light.

If Christians begin to celebrate it as Resurrection Day and not as anything to do with Ishtar then he is defeated for probably another 500 years.

justbyfaith said:

so that the side of it that is truly Christian will never come to the light.

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Quote me the side of Easter that is Christian from Scripture and we can go from there if you like?
i understand that we are led there in ignorance, and thus there was no sin, and i even acknowledge that you may not agree right now and there is none, but let's go to the Book and see as far as this evening goes ok

justbyfaith said:

Actually, it is a sin to worship the Father independent of Jesus. For He is the only way to the Father, John 14:6. See also 1 John 2:23.

We are all to honour Him as we honour the Father.

That means that if we honour the Father as God, we honour the Son also as God.

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JBF:

It is actually a great and sometimes difficult topic to explain. You bring up this topic and now I have an opportunity to conclude and clarify my thought on the worship of the Father as opposed to Christ.

As I said before, we can make an idol out of Jesus and worship him without the Father in mind and heart, as the subject of worship. Jesus alone means zero without the Father in mind and heart. Jesus saves although the Father made this all possible.

You say, in my words, it is a sin to worship the Father independent of the Son because Jesus is the only way to the Father through the Son, (as our mediator). Interesting words that do not apply to this topic at all. You come to a simplistic conclusion that has ‘no teeth.’ It does not say anything….

Let me explain….

Scripture says we are to worship the Father in spirit and truth. Guess how we get the spirit and truth. Jesus’ spirit of truth within a believer fulfills this requirement completely.

Joh 4:23 But the hour comes and now is, when true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such worshipers are who the Father seeks.

Joh 4:24 God is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

The point is that as a believer with the spirit of Christ we cannot avoid his (spirit) when we come to the Father in adoration, worship and prayer.

As a believer, under grace, it is impossible to worship God without involving Jesus in the process.

As you said,

(Joh 14:6) Jesus said to him: I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.

We as believers again, have no choice except to always go through Jesus when we worship the Father. It is the spirit of Christ that is always present as the mediator.

You also said,

(1Jn 2:23) Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father. He that confesses the Son has the Father also.

We as believers already accept the Son, for who he really is. We confessed Jesus as the son of God and our Lord and Savior. What has this to do with worshiping the Father after we become a believer? Only unbelievers deny the Son of God and some make him equal with the Father. We must confess Jesus as the Son of God as NOT the Father as being the same. Else the Father will not know us.

I believe you are confused and have introduced inappropriate scripture to try and make your point.

If you pray to Jesus in humility, sincerity and spirit you are then worshipping the Father in the process. The spirit within you automatically passes it to the Father. You are not however worshipping Jesus in the process. We as believers of course never lessen the significance of Jesus and who he is in our lives as we grow into a likeness of him.

So, your point that a believer is in sin (really… sin) who worships the Father without the Son is false, ridiculous and impossible. It cannot be done. Try it! It won’t work. Try to divorce yourself from the new creature within you – part your spirit, part Jesus’ spirit.

Now if you just worshipped Jesus without the Father as the center of worship then I would say it is a sin, of worshipping an idol. Unbelievers do this all the time.

Bless you,

APAK

It is not a sin to worship Jesus apart from the Father, because Jesus is "the everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).

In Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9).

He is God (Exodus 3:14, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 8:59, John 10:31-33).

And therefore He is the Father (Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9, Romans 15:6).

However He is not the 1st Person of the Trinity but the 2nd, in that He is incarnated in human flesh.

so then when you become elohim too, another priest under our Chief Priest, will you be like the 4th person in the Godhead now or what exactly

lforrest said:

God established the times and the seasons, Including the solstices. So what if pegans have adopted and corrupted them for their feasts. Then we introduce the pegans to Jesus and correct their reason for their celebrations instead of telling them to completely abandon all their culture. We are free to do this for the spreading of the Gospel. Paul became all things for the sake of the gospel.

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hey, that direction i love, the other one not so much

bbyrd009 said:

Quote me the side of Easter that is Christian from Scripture and we can go from there if you like?
i understand that we are led there in ignorance, and thus there was no sin, and i even acknowledge that you may not agree right now and there is none, but let's go to the Book and see as far as this evening goes ok

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Okay, here it is: see 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and the final chapters in every gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John).

Traditionally, Easter is the celebration of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ as a holiday.

Any more confusion?

justbyfaith said:

Okay, here it is: see 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and the final chapters in every gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John).

Traditionally, Easter is the celebration of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ as a holiday.

Any more confusion?

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srsly?
so go with that then, roll eggs and buy bunnies and don't bother finding out who Oester/Ishtar are, or how they got into your Beloved Idol, i mean sow all the confusion you like, just don't pretend you found Easter in the Bible and you'll be fine i guess
heck, most believers prolly agree with you anyway right

justbyfaith said:

However He is not the 1st Person of the Trinity but the 2nd, in that He is incarnated in human flesh.

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bbyrd009 said:

so then when you become elohim too, another priest under our Chief Priest, will you be like the 4th person in the Godhead now or what exactly

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was the order i was going for there @lforrest , sorry

bbyrd009 said:

srsly?
so go with that then, roll eggs and buy bunnies and don't bother finding out who Oester/Ishtar are, or how they got into your Beloved Idol, i mean sow all the confusion you like, just don't pretend you found Easter in the Bible and you'll be fine i guess
heck, most believers prolly agree with you anyway right

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My friend, my celebration of Easter has no pagan elements within it. On that day I strictly celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.

bbyrd009 said:

was the order i was going for there @lforrest , sorry

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I'm not sure I understand your question.

Episkopos said:

Rom. 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

You are stuck with the unbelieving Jews ....2 steps back from the holiness you seek. The righteousness which is of faith...is an end to the law for the OT righteousness.

The righteousness which is of faith is submitted to the righteousness of God. But you are mixing law and grace...which is by faith.

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How is it that you can judge my heart? You claim I keep the law to be righteous and I claim I keep the law because I love YHWH and do not want to sin. I claim my righteousness comes by faith in and of Yeshua. You do the work of Satan to falsely accuse people.

stunnedbygrace said:

Gadar, what do you make of the vision where a big sheet fell from heaven and unclean animals were in it and God told the Jewish apostle to eat. The apostle said, no Lord, I have never eaten anything u nclean. God replied, do not call unclean what I have called clean.

You say heretical teachers brought in the eating of unclean meats. How do you fit that with the vision God gave the apostle?

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YHWH gave Peter the interpretation of the vision;

The vision does NOT mean all unclean meats are now edible or that we can call unclean meats clean.