I skimmed through all of them very quickly and I am going to go back and do some more reading.....I can see where the law was such a burden to live by!
The Law of Moses-Ten Commandments or God's Laws
- Thread starter Heart2Soul
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So how does anyone come to the conclusion that Christians cannot sin because if they do then they were never truly converted....SMH....I think I am letting the thoughts of others cause me to doubt myself here....oh mercy!
So here is very good statement made by this author …
In Ephesians 2, Paul borrows from this situation. The law of Moses was a barrier, separating the Jews from the Gentiles. [Note: This, incidentally, shows that the Gentiles were never under any portion of the law of Moses—including the Sabbath law—contrary to the assertions of some religious groups, e.g., the Seventh-day Adventists.] As long as the law stood, there could be no oneness between these two elements of the human family. But the “middle wall of partition,” i.e., the Mosaic law, was done away when Christ, through his blood, abolished “in his flesh” that system (Ephesians 2:13-15). Hence, all men may now be united, by virtue of their obedience to the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 1 Peter 4:17)—joined in the one, spiritual body of Christ, the church (Ephesians 4:4; 1:22-23).
This is how I have always believed....we are all one body in Christ....one church!.
In Ephesians 2, Paul borrows from this situation. The law of Moses was a barrier, separating the Jews from the Gentiles. [Note: This, incidentally, shows that the Gentiles were never under any portion of the law of Moses—including the Sabbath law—contrary to the assertions of some religious groups, e.g., the Seventh-day Adventists.] As long as the law stood, there could be no oneness between these two elements of the human family. But the “middle wall of partition,” i.e., the Mosaic law, was done away when Christ, through his blood, abolished “in his flesh” that system (Ephesians 2:13-15). Hence, all men may now be united, by virtue of their obedience to the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8; 1 Peter 4:17)—joined in the one, spiritual body of Christ, the church (Ephesians 4:4; 1:22-23).
This is how I have always believed....we are all one body in Christ....one church!.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Oh, I know some believe that but, not my self! His burden is light, Christian should find their burdens lighter and lighter as they grow spiritually. Once they have a new heart and and a new nature, sin just does not fit the Christian anymore...it's not "fun". Not that we cannot sin! That, I will never believe. Like I said, some do but not this gal
As I once heard said of Christians "We are not sinless but, we sin less" We're still in the world and are not yet perfected as we still battle the flesh, sin and satan. We may lose a battle here and there but...we know the war has been one ♥
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Good question Heart2Soul.
We should always look to Scripture when in need of the truth, both Old and New Testaments, but not fall into the trap of legalism which is what happened to Israel after its 70 year captivity, when having been chastened for its idolatry and backsliding the pendulumn swung the other way so that when Jesus appeared as their Messiah they were by and large too rigid and proud in their self-righteousness to accept Him and His teaching.
Copied from Legalism (theology) - Wikipedia
Agreed.....and our flesh is cursed from the day we were born because it is the sinful nature of Adam....God is a loving Father who knows the struggles that we face on earth with the enemy constantly coming against us and trying to tempt us to sin.Oh, I know some believe that but, not my self! His burden is light, Christian should find their burdens lighter and lighter as they grow spiritually. Once they have a new heart and and a new nature, sin just does not fit the Christian anymore...it's not "fun". Not that we cannot sin! That, I will never believe. Like I said, some do but not this gal
Good Teaching! Thank you for sharing!.....amazing how knowing and understanding what being under "the Law" really means....I feel like a huge burden has been lifted off of me....I really like putting on the Yoke of Jesus....it is so light....I love TRUTH....This is MEAT to my hungry spirit....thanks again!
Nancy
Well-Known Member
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
To me God's eternal laws are to love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and your neighbor as yourself. Those are the highest level commandments. The Ten Commandments are based on them, but are the lowest level commandments. They do not cover hate, but go all the way to the bottom level of murder, etc. Jesus, on the other hand, put new life in God's commandments and brought them up to a saving level.
Matthew 5: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
The lowest level commandments were to only guard us until Christ. People love the Ten Commandments because they are the easiest to follow.
Galatians 3:
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
"Putting on Christ" is the result of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we do not belong to Christ. The Spirit is the seed in us that causes us to become sinless.
1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
From the whole of scripture we find that John is speaking of "willful" sin. A Christian does not commit willful sin. These are sins unto death. But there are other sins that a Christian does that are not unto death and are automatically cleansed by the blood of Jesus, thus keeping us sinless in the eyes of God. We are still able to commit them, even though it is not God's will, while walking in the Spirit. 1 John 1:7 shows us this. Even though they are not known to us for us to repent and confess them, our advocate takes care of them. And while the fruit of the Spirit grows to maturity, these sins grow less and less frequent as we mature to perfection.
1 John 4:12
If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
Matthew 5: “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
The lowest level commandments were to only guard us until Christ. People love the Ten Commandments because they are the easiest to follow.
Galatians 3:
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
"Putting on Christ" is the result of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit we do not belong to Christ. The Spirit is the seed in us that causes us to become sinless.
1 John 3:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
From the whole of scripture we find that John is speaking of "willful" sin. A Christian does not commit willful sin. These are sins unto death. But there are other sins that a Christian does that are not unto death and are automatically cleansed by the blood of Jesus, thus keeping us sinless in the eyes of God. We are still able to commit them, even though it is not God's will, while walking in the Spirit. 1 John 1:7 shows us this. Even though they are not known to us for us to repent and confess them, our advocate takes care of them. And while the fruit of the Spirit grows to maturity, these sins grow less and less frequent as we mature to perfection.
1 John 4:12
If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
I agree with this and I am not usually one to start doubting or questioning what the Holy Spirit taught me years ago....but the trial by fire that I recently went through testing my faith has me questioning many things I thought were truths....and on top of that I haven't heard accurately on 2 occasions and again I have been shaken....So I read everyone's posts and I rarely respond because I am not confident that the knowledge I have is accurate. I have decided to just delve back into the Word and start seeking Truth...seeking Him....seeking His righteousness and just get reestablished in my faith.
As I read all the posts you have shared on this thread I cannot help but feel joy that someone is actually studying and not accepting the popular theology of the day as truth.
Amen to that @brakelite....I can certainly agree that taking others "word" without testing it was starting to get me confused and confusion is not of God....you bless me many times with your responses and your understanding of His Word.
can't say that is the answer...
The law of righteousness is the law of God.
The holiness and temple laws pertaining to holiness are passed away....by the coming of Christ and the ability to walk in HIS life and holiness. So then Jesus Christ IS the fulfillment of the holiness laws...in His person.
Things become very clear if we see the distinction between holiness and righteousness.
Otherwise you end up with a never ending cycle of confusion. We need to let the bible speak....and not try adding or taking away from it.
No Ten Commandments before Sinai
““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)
The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. They called it the "Ark of the Covenant" because it carried the Ten Commandments.
But the Two Great Commandments are the eternal law written in every heart. We know how we would like to be treated. But only those who are born again have Spiritual power to do this. So the Two Great Commandments condemn all except believers, to Hell.
Jesus said the Ten Commandments Hung from the Two Great Commandments. This was at a level wicked people could keep under threat of death for disobedience and promises of rewards for obedience. Sinners could keep the Ten Commandments for the wrong reasons, greed, fear etc. But they could not keep the Two Great Commandments based on love without first having the Holy Spirit through the new birth.
I disagree....this is copied from a source I am studying...it does not specifically say there were 10 of them but God does address the disobedience to His commandments and the sins of man in those days.....murder, covetousness, adultery etc....so much to the point of the flood which destroyed them and He started over.
This is stated explicitly in Genesis 26:5, where God tells Isaac that He blessed his father Abraham “because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” This event took place centuries before the covenant at Mt. Sinai, centuries before Moses and two generations before Judah, head of the tribe that much later would become known as the Jews, was born!
So Abraham who is established by God as the father of many nations lived by the commandments of God....
I do agree with you about the Two Great Commandments....and the everlasting Covenant God made with Abraham.
Ohhhhh, I see well more studying to do I guess! As I stated in the OP I am just now seeing the difference in Moses Law and the 10 Commandments.....thanks for your input! I will research it more.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you are studying, nor why you didn't agree with Dave L, but don't forget that anything God says is a commandment. (Just as anything Jesus said was a commandment). Abraham and God spoke together, and Abraham did what He said, plain and simple. Abraham's faith to believe God was why it was imputed to him as righteousness. Also sacrifices were brought down through the generations as offering for sin, thus Abraham kept God's statutes - blood covers sin. Abraham did not have the Ten Commandments as it was a COVENANT. They were the only commands God gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai and were engraved on stone, the glory of which was fading away when the New Covenant replaced it. 2 Corinthians 3:7-11; Galatians 3:19-25.
There is always a sign of a covenant when one is made. The sign of the covenant between God and Abraham was circumcision. The sign of the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments was the Sabbath. And the sign of the New Covenant is the Cup of the New Covenant (1 Corinthians 11:25)
We no longer circumcise the flesh as law anymore. It was fulfilled in Christ - He is the SEED from that member of the body. We no longer keep the Sabbath anymore. It was fulfilled in Christ. Since creation everything points to Christ as creator and redeemer. Faith is that Rest.
Can you see two different sets of commandments here:
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
What are the commandments of the New Covenant? They are what Jesus constantly preached.
1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
Now look up every time the apostle John used the word command(ment) (s) and replace in your thinking 1 John 3:23. Note that these commandments come from the Father also, so replace His previous commandments which were holy but at a bottom level of righteousness, with these given through His Son with saving power.
If you are wondering if anything God says as a command can be taken away, don't forget God told Abraham to kill his son, Isaac. Then had an angel catch his arm as he was about to stab his son on the alter, cancelling His commandment. From the moment God spoke the commandment to Abraham, Abraham saw his son as dead. It then took 3 days to arrive at the location. The ram representing the true sacrifice, Jesus, let Isaac go free.
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Truth
Well-Known Member
Yes, the Holy Spirit is Given to us to Empower us to follow the Commandment's, The Spirit know's them better than we do, so as to keep us on track, through conviction in our Hearts. We know when we are misbehaving, because of the Spirit!
How do you argue with the clear statements of scripture? Could it be you don't understand instead?
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