The Problems of Pretribulationism

I Corinthians 15:52 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."It isnt my statement its Gods statement and God had not yet set up heaven on earth. Jesus had yet to finish his ministery to prove his resurection he had not as of yet taken his seat at the right hand of God.

What are you talking about Jesus Did not become King of Kings until he took his seat next to father he came as the savior he needed to finish his ministry he then ascended into heaven to take his seat as KING of KINGSNot as the King and the two wittiness's do not come until the tribulation

No one has answered Zachariah 14:16-19! I read here that there will be death after Jesus sets up his kingdom on earth. vs. 18 says ..wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacle.By these verses I see heathens and I see death. This is later in the millenium, it does not say they enter the millenium as unbelievers, correct?

I did answer more than once if you are not one of the first resurrected your soul can still die untill the White throne judgement Fear not him can kill your body fear him than can kill your soulRevelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years

But I thought you said no one entered the 1000yrs. in the flesh.

Setfree just as I said above your soul can still die unless you are of the first resurrection. All those who will be taught during the millieum still have liable to die soulsfear him who can kill your soul, didnt I just post that ?

So we can still die in our incorruptable bodies? But we can not die until the 1000 yrs is over?

The only change is that we are all in spirit bodies those who DID NOT OVERCOMEwill be taught, .... then Satan is losed for a little while to test those who were taught.. if you refuse to believe after this comes the white throne judgement at the End of the millieum is where all get their final judgement... all not found worthy will die the second death (death of your soul) there is no sin in the New heaven and Earth

(kriss;46083)
The only change is that we are all in spirit bodies those who DID NOT OVERCOMEwill be taught, .... then Satan is losed for a little while to test those who were taught if you refuse to believe after this the white throne judgement at the End of the millieum is where all get their final judgement all not found worthy will die the second death (death of your soul) there is no sin in the New heaven and Earth
The "ARE ALL" are believers, because the unbelievers are destroyed, right?

(setfree;46081)
So we can still die in our incorruptable bodies? But we can not die until the 1000 yrs is over?
I suppose God can kill anyone he likes at anytime but most will be judged at the end White throne judgement

(setfree;46084)
The "ARE ALL" are believers, because the unbelievers are destroyed, right?
No ALL MEANS ALL believer and non believer ...There is no flesh

You have given me some things to think about, so I will have to do some moe searching?

I agree there is no pretrib rapture it cannot happen. First when the bible mentions tribulation it is usually tribulation on the saints as in Matthew 24:29. It is when the saints will be slaughtered like never before or ever again. It is when parents will turn in children (those that will not take the mark of the beast)and children will turn in parents. In Matthew 24:29-31 it describes the rapture and it says that all the people of earth will see Jesus in the air. Zechariah 10:12 say when the jews see the one whom they pierced they will know him and accept him. If the rapture takes place at the beginning of the 7 year period how do the jews accept both the antichrist and Jesus at the same time. I do not see how this is possible so Jesus must come later. The rapture is the 6th seal right after the antichrist sits on the throne and declares himself God, the eyes of the Jews will be open as to who he really is and now Jesus can come and there will be no comfusion as to who He is. I hope this clears up things for u and right before God pours His wrath upon the earth. It is called the prewrath tenet. Also called midtrib.

it's not mid-trib either... the Bible points out that Christ cannot return until our enemies are our footstool (Psalms 110:1) and until the time of restitution of all things (Acts 3:21)If Christ can't return until our enemies are our footstool, it certainly won't be mid trib either, because that's when the rise of the Antichrist is... and the bible says that Christ would be returning again only once... not twice, three times, or four times.... only once.as from what I've studied, this verse alone describes how it will all come to be"But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."- Matthew 24:37Noah went through trials and tribulation, but he was never raptured off of the earth... instead, he endured it. He endured Satan's wrath... that's exactly what tribulation is. Then what did God do?... he sealed them up in a boat... sealed them up. He didn't make them fly away into the clouds... no, God sealed them up. Noah and his family did go through God's Wrath, but they went through it completely unscathed because God protected them with that seal... that big door... and they came out victorious.Revelation 7:3 says "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." This is not a physical or visible mark on the forehead... it is a mental mark. One that is within our minds... this seal will protect us from God's Wrath that is mentioned in Revelation 16.even Christ said in John 16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."With Christ, we have nothing to fear from the Great Tribulation, for with Christ in our hearts, we have already overcame that tribulation through His blood.

(percoid;53314)
I agree there is no pretrib rapture it cannot happen. First when the bible mentions tribulation it is usually tribulation on the saints as in Matthew 24:29. It is when the saints will be slaughtered like never before or ever again. It is when parents will turn in children (those that will not take the mark of the beast)and children will turn in parents. In Matthew 24:29-31 it describes the rapture and it says that all the people of earth will see Jesus in the air. Zechariah 10:12 say when the jews see the one whom they pierced they will know him and accept him. If the rapture takes place at the beginning of the 7 year period how do the jews accept both the antichrist and Jesus at the same time. I do not see how this is possible so Jesus must come later. The rapture is the 6th seal right after the antichrist sits on the throne and declares himself God, the eyes of the Jews will be open as to who he really is and now Jesus can come and there will be no comfusion as to who He is. I hope this clears up things for u and right before God pours His wrath upon the earth. It is called the prewrath tenet. Also called midtrib.
I agree with kalWhere I believe you are going wrong in you studies is the timing of Matthew 24:29 This is the last trump the 7th trump at the very End of the tribulation the last thing that happens it is NOT in the middle its at the End.Read the first word s closley 29"Immediately after the tribulation of those days. The tribulation is Antichrist rule on earth after this tribulation Christs returns

Remember Rev. is not all in order it jumps back in forth in time for reasons of the way God teachs it.But there is ryme and reason. Revelation 10:7 "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."When the seventh angel sounds his trumpet, then the mystery of God shall be finished. There are no surprises. Jesus said many times, "It is written". What is written will come to pass. All the prophecies uttered by the prophets, and disciples, as well as our Lord, referring to these latter days Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."This is the seventh and final trumpet, from the time that the two witnesses are raised, we are dealing with a short period for it all to occur. All prophecy in the entire Bible dealing with the seventh, and last trumpet happens instantly at this time.The voices that boom around the world will announce; "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ: and He shall reign for ever and ever." Revelation 14:14 "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden, and in his hand a sharp sickle."The one sitting on the white cloud and holding the golden crown is Jesus Christ, coming with his saints. It's harvest time. Revelation 14:15 "And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe [overripe]."It is reward time on the earth, and on this day you will get exactly what is coming to you. The day is the "day of the Lord", at the seventh trumpet, and Jesus Christ is here with his saints and angels. Revelation 14:16 "And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped."This is the time that the wheat and the tares are separated. Remember Mathew 13:37-42? Matthew 13:37 "He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Matthew 13:38 "The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; Matthew 13:39 "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels." Matthew 13:40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world [age]." Matthew 13:41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend [cause stumbling], and them which do iniquity;" Matthew 13:42 "And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."Jesus gave this in answer to the parable of the tares while he was with his disciples, and here in the vision of the John, Jesus is giving the same lesson to us again as to what shall take place of that dreaded day of the Lord. Revelation 14:17 "And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle."Revelation 14:18 "And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe."This angel is directed from God. The fire he has is right off the altar of God, and is ready for the harvest. Revelation 15:1 "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God."These seven last plagues completes the "wrath of God". The seven plagues are identical with the seven seals and the seven trumpets. This is giving us a different view of the preparation for the delivery of them to the earth. When you put the seals, trumpets, and plagues together, you get an exact view of what this earth will be going through in these final few years. Many of these events have started years ago, however all will take place before the generation of 1948 [or 1967, and the taking of Jerusalem] passes away. (parable of the fig tree)Note the the rider on the first white horse is Antichrist the great pretender the Second white horse is Christs return at the 7th trumphttp://www.christianityboard.com/two-white...ht=white+horses