The Book of Remembrance.

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charity

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That is a private interpretation that goes against the biblical text. Paul explains Lo-Ammi as the Gentiles.

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Beware of the doctrines of men like dispensationalism.

God is giving all people the same chance...not based on ethnicity. It is a new way where all men are seen the same...whether Jew or Gentile. male or female, slave or free.

It is a new way in the Spirit.

But ye are a chosen generation,
.. a royal priesthood,
.... an
holy nation,
...... a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of Him
.. Who Hath called you
.... out of darkness into His marvellous light:
Which in time past were not a people,
.. but are now the people of God:
....
which had not obtained mercy,
...... but now have obtained mercy.'

Hello @Episkopos,

There is no reason to cast aspersions upon dispensationalism in that way. No reason at all! For our discussion concerns your perception of these things, and that of my own, without recourse to any other. If either is wrong, then the blame is their own, and not that of any method of teaching.

Your reference from Romans 9 should be read within it's context, taking in the whole chapter, in relation to the message of the book as a whole. It relates to Israel, for the gentiles grafted into Israel were not a nation apart, so could not be referred to as, 'a holy nation'.

'And I will sow her unto me in the earth;
and
I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
and I will say to them which were not my people,
"Thou art my people"; and they shall say, "Thou art my God."'

(Hos 2:23)

* Compare the wording of 1 Pet. 2:9,10, which obviously gives reference to Hosea 2:23.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Episkopos

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Hello @Episkopos,

There is no reason to cast aspersions upon dispensationalism in that way. No reason at all! For our discussion concerns your perception of these things, and that of my own, without recourse to any other. If either is wrong, then the blame is their own, and not that of any method of teaching.

I don't judge people. I judge the teaching that leads people astray. Imagine a scheme cooked up by the devil to fool God's people.

If we took the dispie view and brought it to the difference between men and women...it would look like... Hey, Jesus was Jewish...but He was a man...so He is a man's messiah...not a woman's messiah. The true promise is to men not women...etc. Just look at all the verses speaking of men....

But we know that in Christ there is NO difference.
our reference from Romans 9 should be read within it's context, taking in the whole chapter, in relation to the message of the book as a whole. It relates to Israel, for the gentiles grafted into Israel were not a nation apart, so could not be referred to as, 'a holy nation'.

'And I will sow her unto me in the earth;
and
I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
and I will say to them which were not my people,
"Thou art my people"; and they shall say, "Thou art my God."'

(Hos 2:23)

* Compare the wording of 1 Pet. 2:9,10, which obviously gives reference to Hosea 2:23.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You have to see that the holy nation is gathered from ALL nations including Judah. Peter is not making any distinction between Jew or Gentile...male or female...etc.

It is all they who have received mercy through Christ.

Those who have walked in Zion know that the people of God is a spiritual people. God is looking for people who worship Him is SPIRIT and truth.
 

charity

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I don't judge people. I judge the teaching that leads people astray. Imagine a scheme cooked up by the devil to fool God's people.

If we took the dispie view and brought it to the difference between men and women...it would look like... Hey, Jesus was Jewish...but He was a man...so He is a man's messiah...not a woman's messiah. The true promise is to men not women...etc. Just look at all the verses speaking of men....

But we know that in Christ there is NO difference.


You have to see that the holy nation is gathered from ALL nations including Judah. Peter is not making any distinction between Jew or Gentile...male or female...etc.

It is all they who have received mercy through Christ.

Those who have walked in Zion know that the people of God is a spiritual people. God is looking for people who worship Him is SPIRIT and truth.

Hrllo @Episkopos,

This is not worthy of comment, for it is just ridiculous. I thought you were better than this Episkopos.

Your bias is caused by not rightly dividing the Word of Truth, (2 Timothy 2:15): therefore mixing up what was pertained during the Acts period, with that which followed the laying aside of Israel in unbelief (temporarily) at Acts 28. For it was only then that the truth concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ was revealed to Paul, and made known in his prison epistles, Eph. Phil. Col. 1 & 2 Tim. and Titus.
In the church which is the Body of Christ there is total equality and unity, which was not the case during the Acts period. For the Jew was first then, they had a prior position, for the promises and blessings were made to them. as God's chosen people.

Please try to put aside your bias, and take these things into consideration, for your own sake, if not for those who read your posts.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Episkopos

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Hrllo @Episkopos,

This is not worthy of comment, for it is just ridiculous. I thought you were better than this Episkopos.

Your bias is caused by not rightly dividing the Word of Truth, (2 Timothy 2:15).

In Christ Jesus
Chris


A spiritual bias?

I suppose one has either a bias towards spiritual things or temporal things.

Which one is eternal?
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hrllo @Episkopos,

This is not worthy of comment, for it is just ridiculous. I thought you were better than this Episkopos.

Your bias is caused by not rightly dividing the Word of Truth, (2 Timothy 2:15).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I would like to read your response to his last post though. ...because I am confused and trying to discern if you have a valid point that I really need to consider. You said in another thread it is deception. Then please give a reply to:

If we took the dispie view and brought it to the difference between men and women...it would look like... Hey, Jesus was Jewish...but He was a man...so He is a man's messiah...not a woman's messiah. The true promise is to men not women...etc. Just look at all the verses speaking of men....

But we know that in Christ there is NO difference.

You have to see that the holy nation is gathered from ALL nations including Judah. Peter is not making any distinction between Jew or Gentile...male or female...etc.

It is all they who have received mercy through Christ.

Those who have walked in Zion know that the people of God is a spiritual people. God is looking for people who worship Him is SPIRIT and truth.

If I’m being honest, I’m not sure you want to acknowledge his comment but rather look away. Out of love and respect for another Sister in Christ...I mean no disrespect but either you are deceived...or it is me that is deceived. Why does it matter...because it is important.
 

charity

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I would like to read your response to his last post though. ...because I am confused and trying to discern if you have a valid point that I really need to consider. You said in another thread it is deception. Then please give a reply to:

Hello @VictoryinJesus,

I will be glad to answer, only I don't know what you are referring to I'm afraid?

If I’m being honest, I’m not sure you want to acknowledge his comment but rather look away. Out of love and respect for another Sister in Christ...I mean no disrespect but either you are deceived...or it is me that is deceived. Why does it matter...because it is important.
* Again, VictoryinJesus, I can't answer because I don't know what you are referring to. What is the deception you refer to?
Please read - reply#63

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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charity

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A spiritual bias?

I suppose one has either a bias towards spiritual things or temporal things.

Which one is eternal?

Your bias, @Episkopos, is not concerning what is spiritual or temporal, but in regard to dispensationalism, and what you perceive to be the doctrines they hold.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hello @VictoryinJesus,

I will be glad to answer, only I don't know what you are referring to I'm afraid?



* Again, VictoryinJesus, I can't answer because I don't know what you are referring to. What is the deception you refer to?

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

“Hello there,

Everywhere I look on the forum this morning I see it advocated that the present day church is Israel.
I find this alarming, that so many hold this deception as truth.

Get back to the Word of God, and read and believe what is written for our learning: not impose upon the text the product of your own understanding, for you are doing despite to the Word of God by your reasoning.

In Jesus Name I ask it,
In Christ Jesus
Chris”
 

VictoryinJesus

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Hello @VictoryinJesus,

I will be glad to answer, only I don't know what you are referring to I'm afraid?


* Again, VictoryinJesus, I can't answer because I don't know what you are referring to. What is the deception you refer to?
Please read - reply#63

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

Okay. Read #63. Sorry, I must have read it before you added to it. Thank you.
 

Episkopos

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Hrllo @Episkopos,

This is not worthy of comment, for it is just ridiculous. I thought you were better than this Episkopos.

Your bias is caused by not rightly dividing the Word of Truth, (2 Timothy 2:15): therefore mixing up what was pertained during the Acts period, with that which followed the laying aside of Israel in unbelief (temporarily) at Acts 28. For it was only then that the truth concerning the Church which is the Body of Christ was revealed to Paul, and made known in his prison epistles, Eph. Phil. Col. 1 & 2 Tim. and Titus.
In the church which is the Body of Christ there is total equality and unity, which was not the case during the Acts period. For the Jew was first then, they had a prior position, for the promises and blessings were made to them. as God's chosen people.

Please try to put aside your bias, and take these things into consideration, for your own sake, if not for those who read your posts.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris


Again, in all these things it is based on spiritual life. The Gentiles learned of the new life in Christ from the Jews. Salvation is OF the Jews. But salvation is not exclusively theirs.

So as the gospel was preached in all nations...more Gentiles entered into the life of Christ.

Israel is of God...not of men.

The land is God's, not any people's. God has no favourites. It is...whomsoever will. And it is by faith.

So then those who still argue for a temporal Israel having any kind of status before God are against the faith of Christ. In many cases Darbyist also go so far as to be enemies of the cross....relegating anything difficult to a different dispensation. How convenient.

Israel was always more than the Jewish people. It is Israel not Judah we are talking about.

I could understand someone having difficulty with Gentiles being added to Judah (although many were in the OT) ...but there are 10 other tribes for Gentiles to be grafted into!

Zech. 8:23 This is what the LORD of Hosts says: “In those days ten men from all nations and languages will tightly grasp the robe of a Jewish man, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”


It doesn't say...ten men from 10 different nations...it says, 10 men from ALL nations. These are the 10 lost tribes of Israel returning after having been sifted through ALL nations. (And we all know who "God with us" is)


It says this about Israel...

Ez. 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The New Covenant is with Israel. There is no new Covenant with the nations.

The land is a spiritual land. What fools many people is that the Jews have called their country Israel...whereas it should be called Judea.

Or here..

Amos 9:9 “For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.”

Everyone knows that the Jewish people are not in every nation...
 
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charity

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“Hello there,

Everywhere I look on the forum this morning I see it advocated that the present day church is Israel.
I find this alarming, that so many hold this deception as truth.

Get back to the Word of God, and read and believe what is written for our learning: not impose upon the text the product of your own understanding, for you are doing despite to the Word of God by your reasoning.

In Jesus Name I ask it,
In Christ Jesus
Chris”

Thank you, @VictoryinJesus,

I think that the term used for believing that the church is Israel, is, 'Replacement Theology'. I don't know what this comprises, but I do know that God has not cast away His People, although they are now in a Lo'ammi state, where they are in God's eyes, 'not my people'. This will not be their permanent condition, for the Old Testament Prophets tell us that they will be restored, and the promises made to them as a nation, will be fulfilled in them, and by them.

The Church which is the Body of Christ, is 'in Christ', and are separate from Israel in their hope and calling. Those who comprise this church are from all nations, including Israel, and are an equality, a unity in Him. The truth concerning this calling is found in Paul's later epistles, those written from prison, for it was while in prison that the truth concerning it was made known to him. He is it's Steward, or administrator, and this he has done in the writings of Eph. Phil. Col. 1&2 Timothy and Titus.

God does require that those who worship Him, do so in spirit and in truth, as Episkopos has said. For in this calling all is 'spirit', the flesh counts for nothing. Praise God!

I hope this helps.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Episkopos

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Your bias, @Episkopos, is not concerning what is spiritual or temporal, but in regard to dispensationalism, and what you perceive to be the doctrines they hold.

In Christ Jesus
Chris


Dispensationalism favours a temporal understanding based on a "literal" interpretation of Israel. Messianics espouse this form (wind) of doctrine because it glorifies the flesh. But God must get the glory. People forget this.

People are always looking to glorify the flesh. Dispensationalism glories in the flesh AND denied the cross of Christ we must die on.

God will share His glory with no man. He will be glorified. He has taken a remnant of the nations to be His people...the Israel of God.
 

charity

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Again, in all these things it is based on spiritual life. The Gentiles learned of the new life in Christ from the Jews. Salvation is OF the Jews. But salvation is not exclusively theirs.

So as the gospel was preached in all nations...more Gentiles entered into the life of Christ.

Israel is of God...not of men.

The land is God's, not any people's God has no favourites. It is...whomsoever will. And it is by faith.

So then those who still argue for a temporal Israel having any kind of status before God are against the faith of Christ. In many cases Darbyist also go so far as to be enemies of the cross....relegating anything difficult to a different dispensation. How convenient.

Israel was always more than the Jewish people. It is Israel not Judah we are talking about.

I could understand someone having difficulty with Gentiles being added to Judah (although many were in the OT) ...but there are 10 other tribes for Gentiles to be grafted into!

Zech. 8:23 This is what the LORD of Hosts says: “In those days ten men from all nations and languages will tightly grasp the robe of a Jewish man, saying, ‘Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.’”


It doesn't say...ten men from 10 different nations...it says, 10 men from ALL nations. These are the 10 lost tribes of Israel returning after having been sifted through ALL nations.


It says this about Israel...

Ez. 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The New Covenant is with Israel. There is no new Covenant with the nations.

The land is a spiritual land. What fools many people is that the Jews have called their country Israel...whereas it should be calle Judea.
'And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?'

(Act 26:6-8)

Hello @Episkopos,

* We are agreed that the New Covenant will be made with Israel, just as the Old Covenant was made with them. (Jer. 31:31-37)
* The land, though, is not a spiritual land, it is measurable, and it's dimensions are divinely given in Scripture.
* The 10 tribes were never, 'lost', the twelve tribes are constantly referred to in Scripture as entire, so in God's eyes they are not lost at all (see verse above).
* The grafting of gentiles into Israel took place only during the Acts period.
* Salvation was 'of the Jews', but in the last chapter of Acts, salvation was 'sent to the gentiles', for they would hear it.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

charity

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I’ve never thought God cast away His people but rather gave them an inheritance(Spiritual children).
?
Hello @VictoryinJesus,

Thank you for repying.

* Can you give me a Scripture that I can read to confirm that thought please, for this is new to me. The only inheritance I know Israel were promised, is in the land promised to the early Fathers: to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and to their offspring, which has not yet been realised. To be fully realised it will require the resurrection from the dead, and the restoration of all things, as promised. But it is to be realized upon the earth: whereas the inheritance which the Church of the One Body, of which Christ is the Head is promised is in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Episkopos

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'And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.
Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?'

(Act 26:6-8)

Hello @Episkopos,

* We are agreed that the New Covenant will be made with Israel, just as the Old Covenant was made with them. (Jer. 31:31-37)
* The land, though, is not a spiritual land, it is measurable, and it's dimensions are divinely given in Scripture.
* The 10 tribes were never, 'lost', the twelve tribes are constantly referred to in Scripture as entire, so in God's eyes they are not lost at all (see verse above).
* The grafting of gentiles into Israel took place only during the Acts period.
* Salvation was 'of the Jews', but in the last chapter of Acts, salvation was 'sent to the gentiles', for they would hear it.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

We are talking about eternal life here...not a temporal political boundary.

And the Land....the "promised" land....has always been spiritual. :)

It takes eyes to see this. Spiritual eyes.
 

VictoryinJesus

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?
Hello @VictoryinJesus,

Thank you for repying.

* Can you give me a Scripture that I can read to confirm that thought please, for this is new to me. The only inheritance I know Israel were promised, is in the land promised to the early Fathers: to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and to their offspring, which has not yet been realised. To be fully realised it will require the resurrection from the dead, and the restoration of all things, as promised. But it is to be realized upon the earth: whereas the inheritance which the Church of the One Body, of which Christ is the Head is promised is in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

Isaiah 54:1-4
[1] Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord . [2] Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; [3] For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. [4] Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

“...thy shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.” ...directly linked to where Paul speaks of the true widowhood. Also, directly linked to Galatians 4:27-28 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. [28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. —promised to Abraham.

Don’t you see His chosen display 1 Corinthians 13:5-7
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

This is what His chosen did: they did not seek their own but the riches of another. They hoped. They beared with long suffering and patience for the precious fruit of His seed. And they endured. That is what makes them chosen.(bear witness of His name).
 
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charity

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We are talking about eternal life here...not a temporal political boundary.

And the Land....the "promised" land....has always been spiritual. :)

It takes eyes to see this. Spiritual eyes.

Hello @Episcopos,

It is good to hear that you have spiritual eyes. May you continue to use them.

To the glory of God.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Episkopos

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Hello @Episcopos,

It is good to hear that you have spiritual eyes. May you continue to use them.

To the glory of God.
In Christ Jesus
Chris


There is a difference between spiritual eyes...and spiritualize. :)
 

charity

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[QUOTE="VictoryinJesus, post: 457027, member: 7369"
]Isaiah 54:1-4
[1] Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord . [2] Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes; [3] For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. [4] Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.'

“... and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.” ... directly linked to where Paul speaks of the true widowhood. Also, directly linked to Galatians 4:27-28, 'For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. [28] Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. — promised to Abraham.

Don’t you see His chosen display 1 Corinthians 13:5-7'
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; [6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

This is what His chosen did: they did not seek their own but the riches of another. They hoped. They beared with long suffering and patience for the precious fruit of His seed. And they endured. That is what makes them chosen.(bear witness of His name).[/QUOTE]
Hello @VictoryinJesus,

You posted this in response to my request for scriptures to confirm your thought expressed, that God gave an inheritance to Israel in the form of 'spiritual children'. Yes?

* Paul quotes Isaiah 54:4, as you say,

'For it is written,
"Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not;
break forth and cry, thou that travailest not:
for the desolate hath many more children
than she which hath an husband."
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.'

(Gal.4:27-28)

* But how did he use it? What is the context in which it is used, and what was his reason for quoting it?
In Galatians 4:19, Paul says to the Galatians believers, 'My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you.' Paul was concerned about them, because of false teachers who were seeking to influence them, to bring them back under the dominion of the law. Paul uses the illustration from Isaiah, as an allegory, to teach them by means of a past event, which they were familiar with. The story of Hagar and Sarah.

* The story brings out in picture form the condition of one under the dominion of the law and in contrast one who has been freed from it by redemption. The two Jerusalems, 'earthly' and 'heavenly' bear this out too. The earthly one was still in slavery and subject to a Gentile power. The heavenly one was in a different sphere from earth and was in no sense in bondage, and is described by John in Revelation 21. We are told in Hebrews 11 and 12 that Abraham saw it in vision, although the Old Testament does not reveal this. Those who shared Abraham's faith, and faithfully followed the path he trod embraced it too. For them it was that, 'better country', better than anything on this earth and worth going without a lasting home here and now, where they were only strangers and pilgrims.

* Yes, the story was intended to show the contrast between freedom and bondage, between the law of Moses with it's slavery and the glorious freedom resulting from saving grace.

* '
Now we brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.' Or according to the 'type' that Isaac was. Isaac was born entirely by faith, Romans 4:19, as are we, in Christ.

Praise God!

* I know that this response will not satisfy you, VictoryinJesus, for my thoughts are not your thoughts, but I thank you for taking the time to share what you have.

In Christ Jesus
Chris