Is it true that God loves the sinner, but hates his sin? I hear a lot of people say this, even I use to say it. But I wonder if it is that simple..God loves the world so much that He sent His only Son to die for our sins.But then I read in Psalm 5: You hate all who do iniquity, The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.And Ps. 139 Do I not hate those who hate You, O LORD? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I hate them with the utmost hatred; They have become my enemies.And if God loves sinners why does He send them to hell? If God loves the sinner, what's the need for salvation?
Does God love the sinner, but hate the sin?
- Thread starter Mikey
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You smacked it right on the head. In those verses in Psalms you mentioned, God doesn't hate the sin, but rather the sinner. So that modern evangelical statement that God loves the sinner but not the sin is simply not Biblical at all.It's true that God has a common love for all mankind (rain and sunshine on the just and unjust) and has an individual love towards his elect, but he also has an individual hate towards his non-elect (that's why even in Prov 1 it says God will laugh and mock at those burning in Hell).
(zon3d;46711)
but he also has an individual hate towards his non-elect (that's why even in Prov 1 it says God will laugh and mock at those burning in Hell).
I thought it hurt God to see people fall to hell...?
but he also has an individual hate towards his non-elect (that's why even in Prov 1 it says God will laugh and mock at those burning in Hell).
I thought it hurt God to see people fall to hell...?
God hates the sin, not the sinner. Why would he die for us if hated us and wanted us to go to hell?John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.He died for us so that we may believe in him, and have eternal life. WE ARE ALL SINNERS, Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"BUT,Ephesians 1:7 "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace"
The sin and the sinner are inseperable, in and of themselves (or, itself). I do not believe it is not true to say that God hates one and loves the other, accept when you impliment Christ. Without Christ, there is no distinction. Only in Christ is this distinction made, and that is where we get confused sometimes.God is not going to cast the sin into outer darkness someday... he will cast the sinner into hell along with his or her sins.Only in Christ is the sinner seperated from the sin. In this respect... it is true... God does hate sin and love the sinner. God wants to seperate the sinner from his or her sins, and bring them into His Kingdom.
(treeoflife;47639)
The sin and the sinner are inseperable. I do not believe it is not true to say that God hates one and loves the other. Without Christ, there is no distinction. Only in Christ is this distinction made, and that is where we get confused sometimes.God is not going to cast the sin into outer darkness someday... he will cast the sinner into hell along with his or her sins.Only in Christ is the sinner seperated from the sin. In this respect... it is true... God does hate sin and love the sinner. God wants to seperate the sinner from his or her sins, and bring them into His Kingdom.
Yes, once we are Christians, we are saints right? No longer sinners, no longer LIVING in sin, but still having sin.
The sin and the sinner are inseperable. I do not believe it is not true to say that God hates one and loves the other. Without Christ, there is no distinction. Only in Christ is this distinction made, and that is where we get confused sometimes.God is not going to cast the sin into outer darkness someday... he will cast the sinner into hell along with his or her sins.Only in Christ is the sinner seperated from the sin. In this respect... it is true... God does hate sin and love the sinner. God wants to seperate the sinner from his or her sins, and bring them into His Kingdom.
Yes, once we are Christians, we are saints right? No longer sinners, no longer LIVING in sin, but still having sin.
(zon3d;46711)
(that's why even in Prov 1 it says God will laugh and mock at those burning in Hell).
Proverbs 1:26 (were you said it says God will laugh and mock at those burning in hell.)"I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:"It didn't say anything about hell
(that's why even in Prov 1 it says God will laugh and mock at those burning in Hell).
Proverbs 1:26 (were you said it says God will laugh and mock at those burning in hell.)"I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:"It didn't say anything about hell
(Mikey;47640)
Yes, once we are Christians, we are saints right? No longer sinners, no longer LIVING in sin, but still having sin.
The life which I now live in the flesh I live BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, Who loved me and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20It is no longer our faith that sustains us... having once trusted Him. It is now His faithfulness to sustain us.Just as what I ate for lunch is in me... and nobody can see what I just had, because it's in me... when we trust Him, we are IN CHRIST. God simply doesn't see our sins... he sees Christ--and it is the faithfulness of Christ that sustains this for all eternity.It is indeed, the Gospel of Grace.
Yes, once we are Christians, we are saints right? No longer sinners, no longer LIVING in sin, but still having sin.
The life which I now live in the flesh I live BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, Who loved me and gave Himself for me. Galatians 2:20It is no longer our faith that sustains us... having once trusted Him. It is now His faithfulness to sustain us.Just as what I ate for lunch is in me... and nobody can see what I just had, because it's in me... when we trust Him, we are IN CHRIST. God simply doesn't see our sins... he sees Christ--and it is the faithfulness of Christ that sustains this for all eternity.It is indeed, the Gospel of Grace.
Psa 5:4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psa 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.
The love of God is so misused and misunderstood, God is these days characatured as a benevolent grandfather who spoils his grand children and adminsters little to no discipline. God is not our grandfather, God is our Father, directly dealing with the sins of men and the rewards of obedience. We see a glimpse of God that is not popular today, its not popular because it rubs against the characature that some christians and teachers have portrayed God to be like. Many have believed this lie. Since God not only hates the wicked, he has specifically named one Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. Many today seem to still think that grace means "liking me for what I am and what I do for the Lord", other think "God saved me because he knew I would be obedient to him and do what he likes, so he saw something good in me". Inside we still think we have something to offer God, that God chose us because we have some intrinsic goodness above others that made him give us mercy. But all this is fantasy, its not true at all. God chose us simply because it made him happy to chose us. We didnt come to God with any special package, we were looked upon as wicked and hateful in his sight. But God went beyond the wickedness we had commited, and beyond the just due punishment that we deserve and poured out his grace and mercies upon us. We are truly recipients of grace because we never deserved it at any time. Does God hate sin and wicked men? Oh yes...its not amazing that God hates wicked and vile men, its amazing that God determined to save a mulitude of men and women and bring them to himself as precious children. God went beyond justice and made a sacrifice so great and so satisfying to secure us, we have now been sanctified unto God for holy and pure purposes. The gospel message is never hurt by telling the truth about what we truly are, rebellious wicked men whom God at one time hated, he not only hated what we did but what we were. That reality is not preached much because men in the pulpits are preaching for money and power and success not for Gods glory. Those of us who know the truth should tell the truth, God hates what sinners are, God hates what sinner do, There is nothing strange about a HOLY God hating wickedness, what is strange is that same God calls to men "repent and live", "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". Max
The love of God is so misused and misunderstood, God is these days characatured as a benevolent grandfather who spoils his grand children and adminsters little to no discipline. God is not our grandfather, God is our Father, directly dealing with the sins of men and the rewards of obedience. We see a glimpse of God that is not popular today, its not popular because it rubs against the characature that some christians and teachers have portrayed God to be like. Many have believed this lie. Since God not only hates the wicked, he has specifically named one Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. Many today seem to still think that grace means "liking me for what I am and what I do for the Lord", other think "God saved me because he knew I would be obedient to him and do what he likes, so he saw something good in me". Inside we still think we have something to offer God, that God chose us because we have some intrinsic goodness above others that made him give us mercy. But all this is fantasy, its not true at all. God chose us simply because it made him happy to chose us. We didnt come to God with any special package, we were looked upon as wicked and hateful in his sight. But God went beyond the wickedness we had commited, and beyond the just due punishment that we deserve and poured out his grace and mercies upon us. We are truly recipients of grace because we never deserved it at any time. Does God hate sin and wicked men? Oh yes...its not amazing that God hates wicked and vile men, its amazing that God determined to save a mulitude of men and women and bring them to himself as precious children. God went beyond justice and made a sacrifice so great and so satisfying to secure us, we have now been sanctified unto God for holy and pure purposes. The gospel message is never hurt by telling the truth about what we truly are, rebellious wicked men whom God at one time hated, he not only hated what we did but what we were. That reality is not preached much because men in the pulpits are preaching for money and power and success not for Gods glory. Those of us who know the truth should tell the truth, God hates what sinners are, God hates what sinner do, There is nothing strange about a HOLY God hating wickedness, what is strange is that same God calls to men "repent and live", "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved". Max
I personally don't think so.It is inconsistent with His character I feel.Many of the words in the Bible have been translated using a meaning that the translators thought was the way it was at the time. Translators like all of us are influenced by their culture and the times they live in. In many places where the KJV translates God was Wroth for example, the word can just as easily be translated exasperated. It is a bit different.I can readily imagine God being exasperated with we humankind, but to become wrathful is a bit different.Sorry if I have posted in the wrong place...I am finding it a bit difficult to learn how to steer this posting thing. Feel free to move my post if it is in the wrong place.
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