Why is Church so Boring?

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koulourakia_girl

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AMEN marksman and setfree!I think we should keep in mind that the Church that the Bible speaks of is NOT a building - the word refers to the believers in Christ! WE are the Church! Some of these 'gathering places' may be lacking God's power for whatever reason, but WE are the true Church!
 

lilithb

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I think so many churches are boring because they are stuck in rules and regs of man. and most churches can't think out side of the box. It is not a do or die thing to go to church. It is what is in the heart. Church is a place to worship and mingle with other like minded. So many churches don't know who Jesus really was , they have created this meek imagine and have taken much away. Its an old narrow minded view.
 

RaddSpencer

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A few pertinent facts...Most congregations are made up of 30% men and 70% women.90% of young men leave the church by the time they are 20.There are more believers who don't attend religious ceremonies than those who do. Only 1% of churches in the USA and Australia are growing.Most churches are not churches, they are religious social clubs.Most churches the Holy Spirit doesn't get a look in. You can't go to church because you are the church.The Kingdom of God is in you so wherever you are is the Kingdom of God. The standard hymn/prayer sandwich has been around for 500 years. The pentecostal songs/communion/preaching has been around for 100 years.The world has moved on, the church hasn't.Most churches are built on programmes.The NT church was built on relationships.
No wonder they call you marksman eh XD. Talk about being right on the money.The church has left a generation for dead. The biggest problem I have with the church (in general) today is that it has pretty much left young people (generation X and younger) out to pasture. Church is just not inviting or relevant to most young people --- Especially young men. Why do 90% of young guys leave the church when they go to college. Its because the "churchers" COULD CARE LESS. If you want people to come to your organization -- you provide incentives right? WHERE are the incentives for young men? There are none!1. No Teaching of Apologetics -- This one is the real kicker. I have talked to at least 3 people on this board about objective and rational arguments for Jesus Christ. Why is Apologetics not taught during the service? Apologetics is crucial for many young guys (myself included). No one wants to believe in a God who is a fairy tale (like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny). Apologetics shows you the wealth of evidence for Jesus.2. Very Little Music that Guys like -- Where is the energetic "hurray we are saved" music? Most music in church puts me to sleep. I'm sure if it has this affect on me -- it has the same effect on other guys too.3. The Sermons are HeartFelt Softballs -- Come on man. Why do we talk about "God is Love" EVERY Sunday. Why can't we talk about how divorce is a sin --- how these people are breaking a promise that they made to GOD Himself? Why don't we talk about sins that need to be removed from the body of Christ?One thing I have learned, by experience, is that young men are vital for any organization. I know that young women are important too, but if young guys leave --- YOU'RE DOOMED. When young men leave -- they don't usually come back. You would think that if there is a ratio of 30% men and 70% women somewhere -- guys would come back and even up the ratios.BUT that does not happen in all cases. There has to be incentives for young guys to come --- otherwise they will do something else (regardless of the gender ratios). And if there are too many women at an event -- they will definitely stay away.
 

medicalmatt

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Haha I was going to quote some parts of your post in particular, but then I realized...well I just love the whole thing. SO TRUE!"Heartfelt softballs" oooh love that one.Pastors need to preach about sin!! Instead of chanting "You are Holy" 20 times in a row during the music portion, let's dig into what it MEANS to be holy, and what God means when he says "Come out from among them and be separate...do not touch what is unclean and I will receive you." I HATE how spineless so many churches are these days. I need some meat! I wish you blessings in your endeavour to get apologetics into your church. I've also had to do most of my apologetics searching on my own.
 

DONNIE

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I found a really good book on apologetics. Many Infallible Proofs by Henry Morris.
 

marksman

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Thankyou for your input RaddSpencer. I can't see how we are going to be dynamic force unless we listen to those we want to influence. I am sorry that we "couldn't care less" about you as we should care about everyone. Having spent six year at university as a student and taking on the homos, socialists, atheists and secular humanists and beaten them all I have proposed a one year gap course for students to spend their time between finishing high school and going to uni learning how to be ambassadors for Christ on campus and how to engage in spiritual warfare to take back ground from satan who rules on most university campuses.The course would include teaching atheist and secular humanistic beliefs, spiritual warfare praying, witnessing one on one, praying for an individuals need, laying hands on the sick, how to debate, how to exercise faith and producing relevant evangelistic material.I have submitted it to some bible colleges and I didn't even get a reply. So much for wanting to produce christian warriors who will take on and defeat the enemy.
 

His By Grace

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Hmmm...sooo many things are going on in my mind about all of this. Yes, Radd, some churches are boring to be in, I agree, but let me submit to you something to think on. This has helped me as we have had to sing in some of these little country churches that you wanted to check some of the peoples' pulses when you were singing! What do you bring with you to worship? Do you bring an attitude of gratitude? Do you bring with you a positive mindset, enveloped in the Spirit of Christ? Those hymns can be sung in a boring way, but I have actually looked at the lyrics to see how rich they are. We have become a generation of needing to be "entertained". We want it to be about "us". It's not about us. It's about Christ. Now, I'm not raggin' you, because I've done the same thing. The Spirit has convicted me that it is my attitude that causes me not to adore, magnify, and glorify Him. I can worship Him anywhere, anytime, and with any group of people because I have an overwhelming sense of His presence and love for me. Also, praise is contagious! Positive "energy" is contagious! People need that today. You seem to have a great sense of humor and to be full of fun. Take it with you and let it spill on to others for Christ. Even when you don't know it, others are watching and listening. You do make a difference.As far as the meeting together, the early church did meet in homes because the synogogue didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah. But, when Jesus lived on earth, he was faithful to go to the synagogue every Sabbath. He set an example for us. We need to hear words of encouragement, Living Words from the Bible, and we need physical fellowship of other Christians. We are weak. Christian friends help to keep us strong. They can hold us accountable.We will not be isolated in heaven. I don't know if you've ever experienced how beautiful it sounds, looks, and feels when you are in a room with people freely praising the Lord. There is nothing "earthly" like it. It's a total heavenly experience. I would say that you need to find out what the Lord is telling you to do, Radd. He calls us specifially to special tasks at special places. You and your sister may have 2 different ministry places. It's okay. Just make sure that the pastor lines up with scripture. Know your Bible. If you're not getting fed, move on and try somewhere else. It is difficult sometimes to find the right fit. We sure don't avoid going to stores just because we don't like everything about them! Hypocrits are everywhere. We can look in the mirror and see one every morning, but by the grace of God.
 

RaddSpencer

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What do you bring with you to worship? Do you bring an attitude of gratitude? Do you bring with you a positive mindset, enveloped in the Spirit of Christ? Those hymns can be sung in a boring way, but I have actually looked at the lyrics to see how rich they are. We have become a generation of needing to be "entertained". We want it to be about "us". It's not about us. It's about Christ. Now, I'm not raggin' you, because I've done the same thing. The Spirit has convicted me that it is my attitude that causes me not to adore, magnify, and glorify Him. I can worship Him anywhere, anytime, and with any group of people because I have an overwhelming sense of His presence and love for me. Also, praise is contagious! Positive "energy" is contagious! People need that today. You seem to have a great sense of humor and to be full of fun. Take it with you and let it spill on to others for Christ. Even when you don't know it, others are watching and listening. You do make a difference.As far as the meeting together, the early church did meet in homes because the synogogue didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah. But, when Jesus lived on earth, he was faithful to go to the synagogue every Sabbath. He set an example for us. We need to hear words of encouragement, Living Words from the Bible, and we need physical fellowship of other Christians. We are weak. Christian friends help to keep us strong. They can hold us accountable.We will not be isolated in heaven. I don't know if you've ever experienced how beautiful it sounds, looks, and feels when you are in a room with people freely praising the Lord. There is nothing "earthly" like it. It's a total heavenly experience. I would say that you need to find out what the Lord is telling you to do, Radd. He calls us specifially to special tasks at special places. You and your sister may have 2 different ministry places.
Oh no, I think you have said a lot of kind, gentle-hearted things. However, just because a worship experience is heavenly for you does not mean it is heavenly for me. I mean, come on, If I sung that hymn in a passionate way -- I would scream it at the top of my lungs -- just like Disciple.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOV8Sd0KOgHowever, the deacons, or whatever, would escort me right out of the place (and probably tell me not to ever come back). I've had this happen before (multiple times), let me give you an example:I went to this church in Hawaii to see a guest evangelist. He brought 50 or so Polynesian instruments for us to play during the worship service. So, one of my friends brought her violin, and she played it during the worship time (everyone loved her girly violin playing btw XD). Meanwhile, I found these two wooden bars. During the service, I hit my two bars together, and I loved these bars because if you hit them together the right way, they would make a very unique sound (the definition of awesomeness). So I fell in love with these bars. Everything was going fine during the worship service, but at the end the evangelists came over to collect the instruments.He came to me and snatched the bars right out of my hand, and he had a look on his face of DISGUST, RAGE, HOSTILITY etc.... He basically had this look of "what are you doing here in God's house -- YOU are not welcome -- you who disturb the peace!"I mean geez, he could have told me any time during the 2 or so hours to not hit the bars together so hard. I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But his attitude was final; he does not want people who want to jump around in the house of God and have a good time (just like that disciple video up there on youtube). Heck, this happened 8 years ago, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I even remember his face --- I could pick him out of a line-up in no time.Church is not a place for young men. Thats just the cold hard truth of the matter. Thats why, strangely enough, young men leave when the turn 20. Once you grow up, no self-respecting guy is going to go back to the nursery willingly (unless he is henpecked -- like myself -- by my sister no less eh)?
 

marksman

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Just make sure that the pastor lines up with scripture
I realise this may be off topic but I could not let this one pass. If a church has a paid pastor who leads the church, they do not line up with scripture.If you want to follow the teaching of scripture and follow the example of the New Testament church, you will need to be led by a plurality of unpaid elders. Nowhere in the NT will you find a paid pastor heading up a church or reference to a "senior pastor". I have set it all out in my website http://churchalive66.googlepages.comIt makes for interested reading but please don't read it if all you are interested in is defending tradition and denying scripture.
 

His By Grace

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Good morning. You know, Radd, as I was reading through your post, it took me back to some similar experiences I had at a church. I always felt comdemned. I came to realize that there are places people meet but you just have to wonder if God even shows up! Now, I'm not saying that everyone at the church was fake, so I guess, technically, Jesus was there. But I really struggled with how I was treated. I do feel your pain. I can say to you that there are more churches out there, though, and maybe you haven't found the right one for you. Truly seek God's face about it. He's so faithful IF we would just listen instead of thinking prayer was a one-way communication.(I get impatient sometimes and fail to listen well.) I want to share a few scriptures with you about this situation for you to think on that I hope will be beneficial. I will start with John 4:24,"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." I thought about that for awhile. Notice the second "spirit" is lower-case. Our outward expressions of worship are a manifestation of what takes place in the spirit-man. Some people naturally have more expression than others. But that's something we can control and still worship if we are so determined. Philippians 2:1-10 talks about how we should be of one accord and prefer others over ourselves. It reminds us of Christ's humility. Even though you were having a good time with the "instruments", it could have been very distracting to others. I don't the confrontation was handled in a Godly way, though. In Romans 12, the Bible reminds us that we should be using our gifts to honor the Lord and with a thankful attitude. Verse 9 says, "Let love be without hypocrisy.Abhor evil. Cling to what is good." Verse 12 says, "...continuing steadfastly in prayer." The answer is there, but be diligent. As far as the pastor thing goes, it is listed as a gift in Ephesians 4:11. I agree that one man should not control the whole church. As a matter of fact, we do have elders. Our pastor is one of the elders. They guide in the decision-making, but important things are brought before the whole body and discussed/voted on, if need be. The fact that it is a paid position doesn't bother me one bit. In the OT they brought tithes and offerings to the temple and that's how the priests and their families were sustained. Also, in 1 Corinthians 9:10-14, Paul is discussing this very thing. He is saying that ministers have the right to make a living from sharing the gospel full-time even though he didn't do that. I'm sure if we scrutinize many things about today's church, we'd find a lot of errors of practice. If it doesn't hinder salvation or the message of it and if we are sincere, passionate, seeking the Lord, He will lead us in the right direction.
 

RaddSpencer

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As far as the pastor thing goes, it is listed as a gift in Ephesians 4:11. I agree that one man should not control the whole church. As a matter of fact, we do have elders. Our pastor is one of the elders. They guide in the decision-making, but important things are brought before the whole body and discussed/voted on, if need be. The fact that it is a paid position doesn't bother me one bit. In the OT they brought tithes and offerings to the temple and that's how the priests and their families were sustained. Also, in 1 Corinthians 9:10-14, Paul is discussing this very thing. He is saying that ministers have the right to make a living from sharing the gospel full-time even though he didn't do that. I'm sure if we scrutinize many things about today's church, we'd find a lot of errors of practice. If it doesn't hinder salvation or the message of it and if we are sincere, passionate, seeking the Lord, He will lead us in the right direction.
Well, IDK, the pastor at this church (that I am going to now) is a good person. (AND LET ME SAY THIS --- IT is getting DIFFICULT to find pastors who even act like decent human beings anymore. Its like Pharisee central around here ya know -- where I live)! He genuinely wants to follow God's path, and he also is not controlled by the "other" almighty trinity in church ( Like Benjamin, Grant and Jackson).However, it would be nice if we could have a message that was more hard-hitting. We need to be held to account you know, and it would also be nice if we could get rid of the bed-time music (hymns).So, it seems like I am stuck. Either I go to a church which has friendly people and a friendly pastor (and I have to endure the other parts I don't like). Or I go to a church where people don't want you there -- and they act like screaming clowns. I mean geez, satanists probably have better manners!This is the curse of living in the "Bible Belt" --- otherwise known as the "Laodicea Belt" Revelation 3:14-22. Church is a popular "hang-out", and a lot people are there for all the wrong reasons. Pastors are interested in their fat 100,000 dollar paychecks -- driving their BMW's around. They have their mega-churches decorated with 4000 dollar plasma screens, with millions of dollars in sound/video equipment. And their churches are the size of a small automobile-factory.Its just ridiculous, as my dad said, "going to a (certain unnamed denomination) church is like going to the circus, with all the, cameras, lights, action etc... And, of course, the pastor is the ring master with his $4000 dollar, 3 piece suit."Young men see this spectacle (and boy is it a spectacle), and they become uninterested. If I want to go to a circus, then I plan to go to the circus.
 
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First, I go do a Baptist church, we have a live band, refreshments before church, we get to wear casual clothes.... I don't think mine is boring, I guess your sister has a different taste in style than you.
 

waquinas

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Moses spent considerable time on a mountain without a jumbo-tron or 5 piece bands to hold his attention. Jesus asked his followers to be with him for one hour in the garden with no espresso or praise team to keep their interest. It is our attitude that determines how high we go in worship. Have personally found that when searching for a Church, if "not bored" was an issue then I was looking to be entertained, not to be closer to God.
 

His By Grace

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Radd, I was really directing the pastor thing to marksman. But, that's okay. I'm glad the pastor of the church you're going to is well thought of by you. So many today lack integrity and are in glass houses-like it or not. We really are too because we never know who watches, reads, or listens. You're at a tough age-no doubt! Remain faithful. The Lord will reward you for your actions (1 Corin. 3:9-17). It can be lonely when no one your age is at your church and you feel like not too much is going on.I've been there. Most of the time I was the only one my age at church on a Wednesday night when I was in college. But I still was determined to learn and grow. It was a precious time. There may be beautiful seeds God has planted in those people all around you and they just haven't burst forth with the fruit yet. We were all there at one time or another. Be an encourager to those around you. In 2 Corin. 8:2-5, it talks about the early church fellowship and how they gave themselves to the Lord FIRST. Then they were able to give with much liberality and minister to the saints even in trials and afflictions. Which brings me into my second point for some of the comments about not needing to attend church, etc. Yes, we are the church. But how easy it is to slip away from the things of the Lord by not attending for encouragement, harmonious praise, and accountability. Hebrews 10:25 has often been quoted, in which it is stated to "not forsake the assembling of yourselves together, as is the manner of some (they are being rebuked for this), but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching." The verses right before this explain why in greater detail. It's so we can hold fast to hope without wavering and we can consider one another in order to stir up love and good works. I know there are churches that are very commercialized and it is sickening! Kinda makes me want to say get real or go home (in the flesh, of course). It's ridiculous for a pastor to have to have all the fluff and yet there are so many needs around us. God said He would not be mocked. They will pay. I have to worry about me. How have I spent my money? How many people have I helped? How many times have I acted with hypocrisy? Bottom line is there's a place for you among fellow believers somewhere... I'll be praying the Lord will lead you there:)
 

RaddSpencer

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Chains:You're church sounds interesting. I have never heard about a church which has refreshments before the service (sounds messy XD)waquinas:That sure is the truth:Grace:You seem kind
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(gift of the Spirit eh?). Thank you for putting me in your prayers.
 
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(RaddSpencer;47988)
Chains:You're church sounds interesting. I have never heard about a church which has refreshments before the service (sounds messy XD)
Not Really. xDIt's like Coke, Dr. Pepper, and like... cookies and doughnuts.... lol
 

His By Grace

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Thanks, Radd. Just got back from a powerful service tonight. When God shows up you can't help but feel blessed! I got to pray over one of my daughters and my niece. Our youth pastor led the worship. That's what I like about my church. It's alive and we love Jesus. He shows up every time I go! Amazing things are going on. Anyway, that's my prayer for you-a place where you KNOW the Spirit of God is meeting with you. Keep me posted.
 

eternalarcadia

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Is it OK if I don't wave my hands in the air and sing during praise? -- because at a youth group i went to, most everyone was doing it and i fealt left out. I have social anxiety so its hard for me sometimes. Is there such thing as silent worship?
 

RaddSpencer

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Thanks, Radd. Just got back from a powerful service tonight. When God shows up you can't help but feel blessed! I got to pray over one of my daughters and my niece. Our youth pastor led the worship. That's what I like about my church. It's alive and we love Jesus. He shows up every time I go! Amazing things are going on. Anyway, that's my prayer for you-a place where you KNOW the Spirit of God is meeting with you. Keep me posted.
We'll see, church (and many groups of Christians) tend to be like sandy soil for me. It is difficult for me to take root there (as in get actively involved). Frankly, because, well, they don't like my laid back humorous attitude. Also, if I see something that is wrong, I always will hold people to account (and they always get very angry).I am not very good with "the churched". Never been good with people ya know.
 

marksman

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Paul is discussing this very thing. He is saying that ministers have the right to make a living from sharing the gospel full-time even though he didn't do that.
He did not say ministers have a right to make a living from sharing the gospel full time. The passage you quoted in Cornthians is talking about traveling apostles, not local leadership. The evidence is that whilst they were travelling and could not work to support themselves they accepted financial support from the church. Once they had settled in a location, Paul set up his business of making tents and earnt enough money from it to care for himself and the others travelling with him. Apart from the fact that you don't form a doctrine from one verse of scripture.
In the OT they brought tithes and offerings to the temple and that's how the priests and their families were sustained.
What they did in the OT is not relevant to the church in the NT as we do not live under the old. Jesus came to do away with the priesthood, temples and ritual. The NT priesthood is the priesthood of ALL believers, the temple is our body and the only ritual is fellowship with him.
if we are sincere, passionate, seeking the Lord, He will lead us in the right direction.
You have obviously not heard the saying "you can be sincere but be sincerely wrong" and that sums up churches that are governed by tradition, not the word of God. All God's promises are conditonal i.e. repent and be baptised and you will have forgivness of sin." Nowhere does he promise that if we are sincere he will visit us with revival. Nowhere does it say that if we are passionate he will make us his disciples. It does say those that do his will are his disciples. The cults are full of people who seek the Lord. They don't find him, because they are not doing his will. All they get is a religious experience.
If it doesn't hinder salvation or the message of it
I happen to believe that if we are not doing God's will, no matter how sincere we are, we are hindering the gospel. We have plenty of evidence for this as only 1% of the church in America and Australia is growing. In the NT the Lord added new converts daily so something is terribly wrong.