The mark of Cain ?

101G said:

yes, true, but this reminds me of Cain and his mark. not something physical that was to be seen or touched, but his Mark was a removal from a certian part of Eden, which saved his life.

Blueberry said:

Gen 3:23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Gen 4:1 Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil.

101G said:

there is nothing wrong with working the ground, Adam did not spill blood on the ground, Cain did.

don't want to get off topic. if you want to discuss this, there is an old topic here in the Bible study title "The Mark of Cain".

Blueberry said:

This thread got off topic a long time ago.

I said nothing about working the soil.

The point is that Cain was never in the Garden of Eden. Thus alleged his removal from it never happened and therefore could not possibly be the mark.

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Then I added for clarity...

Blueberry said:

The "him" in Genesis 3:23 is Adam. He worked the ground from which he was taken. Cain was born. Later on. When now sinful Man was expelled from the Garden.

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101G said:

Adam was in the Garden, and Cain was in Eden, but just not the garden. and after the killing of his brother, he went east in Eden.

remember there was a garden in Eden. Eden is a place.

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Really?? Show me... in the Bible.

Gen 4:16 And Cain 7014 went out 3318 8799 from the presence 6440 of the LORD 3068, and dwelt 3427 8799 in the land 776 of Nod 5113, on the east 6926 of Eden 5731.

5731. Eden

Eden: the garden home of Adam and Eve
Original Word: עֵדֶן
Part of Speech: proper name, of a territory
Transliteration: Eden
Phonetic Spelling: (ay'-den)
Definition: the garden home of Adam and Eve

Adam and Eve were outside the Garden when they had Cain. Outside of Eden. Look at all the references in Genesis chapter 4. "in the field" "on the ground". Says nothing about a place called Eden beyond the garden.


I've looked up your secular dictionary's entry...

Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - eden
Eden
E'DEN, noun [Heb. pleasure, delight.] The country and garden in which Adam and Eve were placed by God himself.


When doing a 'Bible study', read the bible. The Strong's concordance references that I provide are the bible. In its original language. Really, arguably, more the bible than any English translation! You are quoting someone's opinion about a translation of the Bible. And you can bet that in 1828, it was almost certainly the original KJV bible. Two layers removed from God inspired scripture.

101G said:

The word Mark, according to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English it means, the primary sense of which is to go. When used here as a noun. Which fits the context of scriptures of him being move from one place to another in order to save his life.

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No, it doesn't! You confused the etymology (the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history) portion of the entry with the actual definition(s) of the word. Didn't make that same mistake with the word "set".


Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - mark

Mark
M'ARK, noun [Latin mercor, the primary sense of which is to go, to pass; Gr. to pass; Eng. fair, and fare.]

1. A visible line made by drawing one substance on another; as a mark made by chalk or charcoal, or a pen.

2. A line, groove or depression made by stamping or cutting; an incision; a channel or impression; as the mark of a chisel, of a stamp, of a rod or whip; the mark of the finger or foot.

3. Any note or sign of distinction.

The Lord set a mark upon Cain. Genesis 4:15.

All of these definition entries point to a visible mark. The correct definition is even in your own reference!

Clearly you put a lot of effort into that 1.5 year old piece. Kudos. You're heavily emotionally invested in it. We've all been there. Those who ever got this far anyway. But you simply have to do the heavy lifting and hard work of digging out the true original words and meanings. There is no substitute for that effort. Your Father will see it and be pleased.

"Be diligent to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who doesn't need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth."

Blessings

101G said:

Yet another revelation. here in Numbers 35:12, which confirm what I been saying about the other people who Cain was afraid of. His righteous brothers and sister, or cousins down the line, his KINSMAN, who was born in the Garden of Eden [B]before[/B] he and Able who was born outside the garden in sin.

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Righteous brothers and sisters and cousins?? People not born in sin. (Remember, both Adam and Eve were made.) Born in the Garden of Eden before Cain??

Wow.

I will go read Gill's commentary when I can. But I cannot imagine connecting it to Cain's mark.

Something else to consider. No reason to think people needed to be living currently that might have killed Cain at the time he killed his younger brother Abel. Cain lived on. According to some sources to see 7 generations of his offspring. I am not sure as I have never studied this very much. Many people possible to murder him long after he got his mark, but before he died naturally. (Or of his house collapsing on him, as some sources suggest.) Makes no sense for God to wait until the first person found and approached him. Then suddenly put a mark on him. I cannot imagine the mark wore off before he died. The Bible does not say "so that no one would kill him mere days, or even years, after the mark was put upon him." It is unclear whether Abel had children, but his descendants might have wanted to kill him. Maybe a great great grandson of Abel's? God was not so much protecting Cain as insuring that He will have vengeance in his own way. "Vengeance is Mine!" saith the Lord.

Keep at it.

GINOLJC, to all.

Blueberry said:

Righteous brothers and sisters and cousins?? People not born in sin. (Remember, both Adam and Eve were made.) Born in the Garden of Eden before Cain??

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Yes, Adam and Eve had children in the garden, born alived to God, before they had Cain and Abel cut off/dead to God outside the garden.

supportive scripture, Gen 3:16 , and Gen 3:20 ... (smile).

be blessed.

Blueberry said:

Something else to consider. No reason to think people needed to be living currently that might have killed Cain at the time he killed his younger brother Abel. Cain lived on. According to some sources to see 7 generations of his offspring. I am not sure as I have never studied this very much. Many people possible to murder him long after he got his mark, but before he died naturally. (Or of his house collapsing on him, as some sources suggest.) Makes no sense for God to wait until the first person found and approached him. Then suddenly put a mark on him. I cannot imagine the mark wore off before he died. The Bible does not say "so that no one would kill him mere days, or even years, after the mark was put upon him." It is unclear whether Abel had children, but his descendants might have wanted to kill him. Maybe a great great grandson of Abel's? God was not so much protecting Cain as insuring that He will have vengeance in his own way. "Vengeance is Mine!" saith the Lord.

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ERRIOUS THINKING,
Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Cain didn't find a wife in nod, no, he "KNEW"/had sex with his wife that went with him to nod, and she bared Enoch.

twinc said:

what was it ? - twinc

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I don't think many will agree with this...but the mark of Cain was not some kind of marking or or sign that could be attributed to a divine protection...but rather it was the presence of his outer man and the fierceness of his countenance. Nobody was going to mess with him.

There is a deeper lesson to this.

Many in the church are as Cain in that they depend on the outer man for their authority and advancement. People are looking to be strong...rather than to be weak. So then there is not a lot of discernment out there that perceives where a person is drawing strength from.

A person who is weak in themselves is NOT respectable even in church circles. People are looking to be something that looks beneficial. People want something to add...not subtract.

So then Cain was allowed by God to capitalize on his innate fierceness as this was to be displayed physically to all and sundry.

Have we not ever seen a person that is fearful just to look at?

That is the mark of Cain.

many seek to understand the MARK of Cain, but they use the Idea in their lives at once or twice.

example. Have you ever heard the term, "On your mark get ready set go".

what are they doing?.

Episkopos said:

I don't think many will agree with this...but the mark of Cain was not some kind of marking or or sign that could be attributed to a divine protection...but rather it was the presence of his outer man and the fierceness of his countenance. Nobody was going to mess with him.

There is a deeper lesson to this.

Many in the church are as Cain in that they depend on the outer man for their authority and advancement. People are looking to be strong...rather than to be weak. So then there is not a lot of discernment out there that perceives where a person is drawing strength from.

A person who is weak in themselves is NOT respectable even in church circles. People are looking to be something that looks beneficial. People want something to add...not subtract.

So then Cain was allowed by God to capitalize on his innate fierceness as this was to be displayed physically to all and sundry.

Have we not ever seen a person that is fearful just to look at?

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!

101G said:

ERRIOUS THINKING,
Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Cain didn't find a wife in nod, no, he "KNEW"/had sex with his wife that went with him to nod, and she bared Enoch.

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I appreciate your reply and listening to my point of view.

I cannot see for certain where Cain took her with him from Eden in these two verses, but neither would I claim it says that he did not find her until he was in Nod.

Blessings to you too.

First thak you for the reply. second, from reading the bible and researching it out. the Children that Adam and Eve had in the Garden before they sinned and was removed from it, answers the question "where Cain got his wife from". it also answeres the question, "Who the sons of God are in Genesis chapter 6.

there is so much information in the creation account alone to keep us studying for a long time.

you be blessed also.

Willie T said:

Job said it plainly and early in this thread. It was never revealed, and none of us knows. So why all this prattle about it?

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it's simply a quest of, to me at least, to understanding God and his work of Salvation.

the bible is always revealing hidden truth, and or things concering us, just because it was not revealed to some maybe to others.

Episkopos said:

That is the mark of Cain.

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"...the oldest tales of the rise of human civilization. In fact, there is as much resemblance between the Biblical story of Noah and the epic of Gilgamesh as there is between the story of Romulus and Remus and that of Cain and Abel (note the expulsion theme, and the detail that Romulus turned into Quirinus, which probably means spear, as does the name Cain; see our article on the name Quirinius)..." The amazing name Philippi: meaning and etymology,
The foundation of Rome

bbyrd009 said:

"...the oldest tales of the rise of human civilization. In fact, there is as much resemblance between the Biblical story of Noah and the epic of Gilgamesh as there is between the story of Romulus and Remus and that of Cain and Abel (note the expulsion theme, and the detail that Romulus turned into Quirinus, which probably means spear, as does the name Cain; see our article on the name Quirinius)..." The amazing name Philippi: meaning and etymology,
The foundation of Rome

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I agree to a point. Israel was a ... sort of to speak, a Johnny come lately. just because someone else may have wrote of an event before you, maybe they didn't get it right. just because one is first don't make them right.

Cain was a marked man, under a curse and he had to repent or he was lost. no one was to kill him for his deed, he had to repent.

There is a dude in the OT that is covered in all White that has a pen and marks people who are out of step with God as well you know, they all are condemned who are marked by him.

Cain had overstepped the Line and became a marked man as to God.

All one need do is look at Cain's attributes to know what the 'mark' is about. It's not simply an outward physical identifying feature. Cain was the first murderer, so...
God cursed the land to Cain so that he could not farm, so Cain had to resort to what...
Cain built the first city, so one of the traits of the children of Cain are...
The list goes on in God's Word, if you recognize the subject in Scripture when it arises.

Isa 14:21
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
KJV


John 8:38-44
38 I speak that which I have seen with My Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto Him, "Abraham is our father." Jesus saith unto them, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill Me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father." Then said they to Him, "We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God."
42 Jesus said unto them, "If God were your Father, ye would love Me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but He sent Me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
KJV

Jun2u said:

All unsaved people have the mark/name on their right hand or in their foreheads to distinguish them from believers. Revelation 13:16-18 reads:

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is WISDOM. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

In contrast, all believers have have their Father's name written in their foreheads.

Revelation 14:1 reads:

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.

I believe the above scriptures pertains to the mark of Cain and the unsaved of the
world that they belong to Satan and those who have the Father's name written in their foreheads belongs to God.

To God Be The Glory

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^^^
This is the closest post as to what the Mark of Cain was.

Yes, it was either the same as, or very similar to the Mark of the Beast.

Those that understand what the Mark of the Beast is, will understand what the Mark of Cain was.

Here is a hint...

Revelation 9:6
"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

We are talking about a form of immortality. There is also the possibility of a physical change that made Cain unrecognizable. In other words, a new identification.

No need to re-translate words or look at the 'Hebrew Roots'. No need to twist the meanings.

Just read your Bibles. The answers are right there.

Here is another hint...

Revelation 13:3
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Again, the Mark of Cain and the Mark of the Beast has to do with a deadly wound that is healed, hence the contradiction...

• Cain will be killed and avenged sevenfold
• Cain will not be killed because he has the Mark

So which is it? Is Cain killed or protected?

IT IS BOTH!

Cain will be killed, the deadly wound healed, and vengeance will be taken on the murderer.

Who does the vengeance? Cain of course!

Now read this again...

Revelation 9:6
"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

God prevented Cain from committing suicide, hence the reaction here...

Genesis 4:13
"And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear."

In other words, being murdered over and over was the punishment.

Remember, the Bible does not contradict itself. The Law still applies...

Numbers 35:16
"And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death."

Numbers 35:17
"And if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death."

Numbers 35:18
"Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death."

You get the idea. Did God break the Law for Cain? No.

Yet, everyone teaches that God did break his own Law by giving Cain a "free pass".

Not cool. Gnome sayin?

Abel wasn't married. At least it doesn't say so.
And that leaves Cain and Seth.
Seth took the place of Abel who was killed. And Cain was removed from the presence of the Lord.

I'm just thinking here and my thoughts can ramble at times so please don't attack me if I fall off a cliff or something. Thanks
Cain was sent (seeya) from the presence (mercy, glory) of the Lord.
Where was the Lord?
Last we knew he was walking in the Garden in the cool of the day.
Well, that's before the kids stole from the cookie jar, then he tossed them out of the kitchen.
OK
But did God ever leave the Garden?
He musta, he came and was talking with Cain in the field.
He does that sometimes. Could be in a bush or in that wilderness he led moses through,
or maybe the wilderness John the baptist was crying in.
Hmm your right, he sure does get around.

So God is in his Holy Mountain.. listening to that song, you know the one?
I do.
This one sounds like what Abel was doing in that Holy Mountain, wanna see?
ok
Eze 20:40
For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things.

That's that conversation back in Genesis about God accepting Abel's sacrifice, but he wasnt too fond of Cain's.
No he wasn't. And Cain got jealous didn't he. God says his countence fell. Means he was wearing a sour puss.
You mean a sad face?
Yeah a sad face ok.
Could mean his heart was kinda broken too. I mean how would you feel if he said he didn't like the way you fixed his car, and your brother could fix a ferrari?
Well, I don't thing God was trying to make Cain jealous. He was just saying he could do better.
Remember God gave him the tougher job because the earth was being real stubborn under a curse and all.
He was the firstborn which meant he was bigger and stronger and better suited for doing the job.
But I don't think he did the best he could. Or he got lazy and a bunch of weeds choked all the good veggies.
So he just put in his sickle and scooped up the good with the bad and said, Here Pops.
I don't think Pops was too impressed do you?
Prolly not.
So anyways, seems like Cain took it hard and decided to go talk to his brother about how unfair it was that God liked his offering better his own.
And I guess they got to talking and Cain just flew in a rage..
why'd he do that?
I'm not sure.
I'm thinking maybe Cain said, look brother, Pop's is mad at me. Why don't you give me one of those lambs there and kill it so
I can have an offering like the one you gave.
And Abel said no, it don't work like that.
Why not?
Well you have to go through the book of the umm Levites you know where the rules for all the offerings and why they are offered are written.
I don't go there that often, it makes me sad all those..
I know, but it's what they were told to do until another way was made more perfect.

So getting back to Cain.
He got so angry and flew into a rage it took him over like a madman, and he killed his own brother.
That's terrible!
Yes it is. And Pop's come looking for Abel and he couldn't find him. So He asked Cain. Son, where's your brother?
What did he say?
Well, he lied and said he didn't know where he was, but Pop's knew.
How did he know?
Well, that's another long story. Let's stay on Cain.
OK
So Pop's he called Cain out right to his face. He said your a liar. You killed your own brother. My son.
What did God do?
He told him to pack his bags and get outta town is what. And so Cain started to leave but before he left Pop's made sure
that if anyone found him they wouldn't kill him.
How come?
Well, I forget where right now but it's written if a man kill another man, the man that kills him has to die too.
So in order to stop the flow of people killing people and on and on.. cause eventually there wouldn't be no one left on earth
to till the ground, Pop's put this mark on his forehead.
Did it hurt?
I don't know, but I'm sure his conscience hurt after that. He had to walk around the rest of his life feeling bad about killing his brother.
I don't know if I could live with myself.
Well maybe that's what that mark was, Cain had to live with himself because Pop's didn't want nothing to do with him.
That's sad.
It's sad, but you know when you do bad things you have to pay the price. And the price Cain had to pay was living with himself.
Alone.
But I thought he got a wife?
He did, but it's not really the same as living with God.
So what was the mark?
Well, if I had to guess, I would say it was his own conscience.
And if anyone found him and killed him, then they would have a bad conscience too. See how that works?
I do. still, It's sad that Cain didn't weed his garden in the first place. Then maybe none of this would of happened.
Maybe, But you know what they say,
No what?
God has a purpose for everything. And as we read the Word we get to know a little by a little, here and there, here and there.
And someday the whole picture will be clear.
I hope so.
It will, just have faith

HUGS

Base12 said:

Again, the Mark of Cain and the Mark of the Beast has to do with a deadly wound that is healed...

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Still do not agree?

Let us turn once again to the Word of God for answers...

Jude 1:11
"Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core."

The Mark of Cain and the Way of Cain are connected. How?

For one, they have to do with REWARD.

You folks believe Cain killed Abel out of spite or jealousy or some 'watered down' reason. No.

Cain killed his brother for REWARD...

Genesis 3:5
"For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

We are talking Human Sacrifice here. You know? To gain favor with the one waiting at the door!

Hello? Does 'Deal with the Devil' ring a bell to anyone?

Genesis 4:7
"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

The Mark of Cain and the Mark of the Beast is a DEAL WITH THE DEVIL. That concept is missing from your equations.

Now... what is the 'Way of Cain' again? Hey Jude...

Jude 1:6
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Do you see it now? The Mark is exchanging one body for another. Sons of God... Daughters of Men.

And...

Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Going after Genetically Modified Flesh! Giants, etc.

This is why the Occult World loves their "TWO BALL CANE". They are going after Strange Flesh. The DNA of the Gods.