What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 14, 2018

Blueberry said:
A lot of good mainstream Christians were abolitionists from the beginning to the end.

And there were others that used the Bible to justify slavery. And one of the reasons LDS folks were so heavily persecuted in the 1800's were for being abolitionists.

History is a complicated thing. One that's good to learn from.

Blueberry said:
1800s??

Brigham Young lived from 1801-1877. That's who I was talking about.

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 14, 2018

Blueberry said:
I trust the Bible.

That's cool, so do I. Honestly, in all my study of dozens of different Christian beliefs, I've never met a single Christian who didn't also include some other source. I'm very open about that in my beliefs.

Blueberry said:
The Book of Abraham. The Pearl of Great Price is considered scripture?

Yes.

Blueberry said:
Do you beleive that the Book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible?

The "correct" part is referring to translation. And all scripture is scripture, sitting as sisters. My reading with my daughter last night was at NT 1) Christ's baptism, 2) the Good Sumatran, 3) Paul preaching to the Romans.

Blueberry said:
That the plan of salvation was lost and needed to be restored by the prophet Joseph Smith?

Remind me to come back to this question, it needs a longer addressing.

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 14, 2018

Blueberry said:
This??

Becoming Like God
"Latter-day Saints see all people as children of God in a full and complete sense; they consider every person divine in origin, nature, and potential. Each has an eternal core and is “a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.”1 Each possesses seeds of divinity and must choose whether to live in harmony or tension with that divinity. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people may “progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny.”2 Just as a child can develop the attributes of his or her parents over time, the divine nature that humans inherit can be developed to become like their Heavenly Father's."

Who are my heavenly parents?

Genesis 1:26–27

Got to run now, will answer more in a few hours.

Blueberry · Nov 14, 2018

Jane_Doe22 said:
Great resource clarifying this Becoming Like God
It's about becoming like God, not about replacing God (that would be a laughable idea).

Sure it would be laughable. He has many worlds and you will get your own. Not saying a planet or whatever. But I accept that you guys do not attempt to define what that 'world' might be like that you will populate with your eternal temple approved spouse, but that you do believe this in some fashion. So, no "replacing" God, but co-existing (in a God-like way) in your own domain?

Anyway, back to your book.

"The teaching that men and women have the potential to be exalted to a state of godliness clearly expands beyond what is understood by most contemporary Christian churches and expresses for the Latter-day Saints a yearning rooted in the Bible to live as God lives, to love as He loves, and to prepare for all that our loving Father in Heaven wishes for His children.

Beyond what is understood or accepted. Its not that we're too stupid or unenlightened.

What does the Bible say about humans’ divine potential?
Several biblical passages intimate that humans can become like God. The likeness of humans to God is emphasized in the first chapter of Genesis: “God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. … So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”3 After Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,” God said they had “become as one of us,”4 suggesting that a process of approaching godliness was already underway.

I am going to be transformed into whatever perfected state that a human being can become when God chooses to do it. I will never be 'like God' in the way I understand you to believe it. Certainly not through striving or human effort. Or by committing the Original Sin! We fell from a perfect (innocent) state to a sinful one resulting in death entering the world. You say this made us more God-like. Sinful... More God-like... Seriously?

Think that I've heard this one before!

Blueberry · Nov 14, 2018

Jane_Doe22 said:
That's cool, so do I. Honestly, in all my study of dozens of different Christian beliefs, I've never met a single Christian who didn't also include some other source. I'm very open about that in my beliefs.

You have now. Sola Scriptura?

Using reference materials is not equal to assigning other book as equal to Scripture in authority. If I read a secular history book about the culture in the time of the writing of the NT am I including another source?

You say ask God. Yes. Read the Bible and then rely on the Holy Spirit to illuminate it to me. To bear witness with my spirit as to what is Truth.

Jane_Doe22 said:
The "correct" part is referring to translation. And all scripture is scripture, sitting as sisters. My reading with my daughter last night was at NT 1) Christ's baptism, 2) the Good Sumatran, 3) Paul preaching to the Romans.

Remind me to come back to this question, it needs a longer addressing.

Yes. That you believe that there are errors in the OT and NT (possibly in the original manuscripts?) and that the Book of Mormon clears some of them up through a better translation and/or plates, er... manuscripts. Still not believing this is the final word of God or fully perfected?

I believe that the Scriptures are inerrant in their original languages.

Speaking of "Becoming Like God"

"These passages can be interpreted in different ways. Yet by viewing them through the clarifying lens of revelations received by Joseph Smith, Latter-day Saints see these scriptures as straightforward expressions of humanity’s divine nature and potential. Many other Christians read the same passages far more metaphorically because they experience the Bible through the lens of doctrinal interpretations that developed over time after the period described in the New Testament."

Now who is relying on a man instead of God to illuminate the Scriptures?

Blueberry · Nov 14, 2018

Jane_Doe22 said:
Great resource clarifying this Becoming Like God
It's about becoming like God, not about replacing God (that would be a laughable idea).

Becoming Like God
"
How have ideas about divinity shifted over Christian history?
Latter-day Saint beliefs would have sounded more familiar to the earliest generations of Christians than they do to many modern Christians.

...

The church father Irenaeus, who died about A.D. 202, asserted that Jesus Christ “did, through His transcendent love, become what we are, that He might bring us to be what He is Himself.”12 Clement of Alexandria (ca. A.D. 150–215) wrote that “the Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God.”13 Basil the Great (A.D. 330–379) also celebrated this prospect—not just “being made like to God,” but “highest of all, the being made God.”

Laughable?? Its what you believe. Or are supposed to.

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 14, 2018

ok @Blueberry , I'm back from errands.

I need to do some major clarification on after-life things. Ok what I do believe--

Today, the Father is my Father. Christ is the Son of God and my Savior. God is my Lord, whom I praise on my knees and am absolutely helpless without. The Father and Son are both Perfect--- without any sin or blemish. They have perfect love of people, mercy, sense of justice, knowledge, will, righteousness etc.

Right now, I am a sinner. I in NO way have infinite love or justice. In fact sometimes I do things which are just downright unrighteous and sinful- and even smile when I do it. It is downright impossible for me to get out of this hole by myself. I am in DESPERATE need of a Savior. Jesus Christ is my Savior. I root my faith in Him. I embrace Him, and rejoice in Him, (try) to follow His ways, and repent when I (pretty regularly) screw up.

I do believe that God has infinite power. He has the power to save a wretch like me. His infinite power and sacrifice have the power to wash away all of the bloody filth on and in me, until I am perfectly clean. Perfectly clean. I believe that God has the pwoer to completely change my heart and burn away the desire for sinful things until only His perfect will remains. His perfect will. Filling me up with His perfect love and desires. Transforming me until I have the exact same perfect love of people, mercy, sense of justice, knowledge, will, righteousness, etc that the Father and Son and Spirit have. Or in other words, until I am totally like them. And of course, the entire time (before, during, and afterwards) I shall continue to praise Him and He shall forever be my Lord.

My belief is focused on God's infinite saving power -- His ability to transform a wretched sinner into a completely perfected person, even as He is. This belief is entirely focused on worship of God. It's not about boosting myself. It's not about planets or super-powers or or stuff like that--- in fact, I find those things trivial subject that don't remotely matter. Nor is it about me replacing my Father or Savior-- our bond shall forever be, in fact only deepen in love and devotion.

Blueberry · Nov 14, 2018

Jane_Doe22 said:
ok @Blueberry
I need to do some major clarification on after-life things. Ok what I do believe--

<snip>

Hey Jane_Doe22,

A sinner trusting in Christ here too. I appreciate your temperament and willingness to engage is such discussions with civility. We clearly pull from different sources and have arrived at different conclusions. It seems that we've taken this to a logical conclusion. Wish you well in your pursuit in life. This one and the next.

In Him,
Blueberry

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 14, 2018

Blueberry said:
Hey Jane_Doe22,

A sinner trusting in Christ here too. I appreciate your temperament and willingness to engage is such discussions with civility. We clearly pull from different sources and have arrived at different conclusions. It seems that we've taken this to a logical conclusion. Wish you well in your pursuit in life. This one and the next.

In Him,
Blueberry

May God ever be with you

mjrhealth · Nov 15, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
that is bc God's forgiveness does not save anyone though, mjr; all are forgiven, the whole world

Never said it did save anyone, All are forgiven, doesnt stop many from rejecting it, Jesus paid the ransom, hasnt stopped men from trying to pay it themselves, Still trying to save yourself I see..

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2018

mjrhealth said:
Still trying to save yourself I see..

pls export this to somewhere if you want to reply, ok mjr. I guess you have old threads this would be more appropriate for

not sure how you are extracting that from
"that is bc God's forgiveness does not save anyone though, mjr; all are forgiven, the whole world" wadr

i mean aren't i agreeing with your premise there mjr?

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 15, 2018

mjrhealth said:
Never said it did save anyone, All are forgiven, doesnt stop many from rejecting it, Jesus paid the ransom, hasnt stopped men from trying to pay it themselves, Still trying to save yourself I see..

bbyrd009 said:
not sure how you are extracting that from
"that is bc God's forgiveness does not save anyone though, mjr; all are forgiven, the whole world" wadr

i mean aren't i agreeing with your premise there mjr?

Hey guys this sounds like a good topic, but would you mind starting a new thread on it?

bbyrd009 · Nov 15, 2018

Jane_Doe22 said:
Hey guys this sounds like a good topic, but would you mind starting a new thread on it?

my apologies

in my experience that post will not be replied to anyway i guess,
but i edited it to encourage a reply somewhere else

Heart2Soul · Nov 21, 2018

My aunt is LDS and I just love her dearly....I admire the churches focus on family....one of the best I have ever seen as far as churches go.
I don't agree with everything they teach but I haven't met a Mormon yet that wasn't full of love and compassion for others. I have been to Salt Lake City and seen the Mormon Tabernacle......I didn't go inside just drove by and saw it, it is huge and beautiful. My aunt is always putting me on their prayer list there.....I forget what she calls it.
Thanks for sharing your beliefs!

Frank Lee · Nov 21, 2018

I have read your posts and say this. I met the Lord Jesus after he came for me in our rural wooded mountain land. You couldn't drag me inside any church. Ezekiel chapter 34 tells me that he still has to go and gather the lost himself. Then he filled me with the Holy Spirit. I had to read in the Bible as to what had happened to me. We know Jesus very well and are baptized in His Holy Spirit. We speak in tongues and have seen many many miracles in the past 40 + years.

If you live and seek Jesus as you say I don't understand how you can stay associated with a sect that has such a beginning. I won't preach to you but I can't comprehend. As a believer we should certainly distance ourselves from such.

I live in Arkansas and we have descendants - a few, of the mountain meadow massacre carried out by the Mormons. Between 120 to 140 were killed. Small children were abducted. Older ones killed.

How can you be part of that is one question. You don't even have to reply. Denominations of all kinds, LDS included teach many errors that are contrary to the only foundation there is, the bible, minus added materials by Mohammed or anyone else. God has as it were, always kept me separate as a watchman and I know that denominations part ways from the path he made. Looking to some man is a bad idea. Looking unto Jesus is where our view must needs be.

Something is not right though.

Prayers up for you! No condemnation at all for you! If you know him as you say then what does he say to you about your sect?

Neither do I condemn thee, but have only puzzlement and a sadness. Halted between two opinions is an interminal crisis.

larry2 · Nov 21, 2018

Frank Lee said:
If you live and seek Jesus as you say I don't understand how you can stay associated with a sect that has such a beginning. I won't preach to you but I can't comprehend. As a believer we should certainly distance ourselves from such.

I agree Brother Frank Lee, and I posted the previous reply in the URL link below saying as much. I just hope many reading these posts aren't swayed into thinking LDS is an option for us to having God's best.
What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

Heart2Soul · Nov 21, 2018

larry2 said:
I agree Brother Frank Lee, and I posted the previous reply saying as much. I just hope many reading these posts aren't swayed into thinking LDS is an option for us to having God's best.
What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

It's easy to change a person's mind but very difficult to change their beliefs....this is what the Holy Spirit is good at....after all He is called the Spirit of Truth!

bbyrd009 · Nov 21, 2018

larry2 said:
I agree Brother Frank Lee, and I posted the previous reply in the URL link below saying as much. I just hope many reading these posts aren't swayed into thinking LDS is an option for us to having God's best.
What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

i'll take LDS over Cult of Sol Invictus most any day though i guess; they will not be judged for their beliefs, after all?

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 21, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
My aunt is LDS and I just love her dearly....I admire the churches focus on family....one of the best I have ever seen as far as churches go.
I don't agree with everything they teach but I haven't met a Mormon yet that wasn't full of love and compassion for others. I have been to Salt Lake City and seen the Mormon Tabernacle......I didn't go inside just drove by and saw it, it is huge and beautiful. My aunt is always putting me on their prayer list there.....I forget what she calls it.
Thanks for sharing your beliefs!

And thank you for sharing your beliefs and kind words throughout this forum

God always be with you and have a happy Thanksgiving!

Jane_Doe22 · Nov 21, 2018

Frank Lee said:
I have read your posts and say this. I met the Lord Jesus after he came for me in our rural wooded mountain land. You couldn't drag me inside any church. Ezekiel chapter 34 tells me that he still has to go and gather the lost himself. Then he filled me with the Holy Spirit. I had to read in the Bible as to what had happened to me. We know Jesus very well and are baptized in His Holy Spirit. We speak in tongues and have seen many many miracles in the past 40 + years.

If you live and seek Jesus as you say I don't understand how you can stay associated with a sect that has such a beginning. I won't preach to you but I can't comprehend. As a believer we should certainly distance ourselves from such.

I live in Arkansas and we have descendants - a few, of the mountain meadow massacre carried out by the Mormons. Between 120 to 140 were killed. Small children were abducted. Older ones killed.

How can you be part of that is one question. You don't even have to reply. Denominations of all kinds, LDS included teach many errors that are contrary to the only foundation there is, the bible, minus added materials by Mohammed or anyone else. God has as it were, always kept me separate as a watchman and I know that denominations part ways from the path he made. Looking to some man is a bad idea. Looking unto Jesus is where our view must needs be.

Something is not right though.

Prayers up for you! No condemnation at all for you! If you know him as you say then what does he say to you about your sect?

Neither do I condemn thee, but have only puzzlement and a sadness. Halted between two opinions is an interminal crisis.

Hi @Frank Lee ! I have very much enjoyed your posts about Christ here and rattlesnakes too.

All people are sinners. And over the centuries even Christians have committed many horrors- even murdering millions. It is absolutely inexcusably tragic. But being a Christian of any type is not about following a sinner- it's about following Christ-- after all, the Bible's own definition of a Christian is a disciple of Christ's. And that's what each of us are here. Some of us do believe that, while all humans are flawed, that God does ask us to be part of a community and call (imperfect) teachers to help guide us. These should never replace God, but rather are servants to help support us in our walk with God.

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

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