When the Year of the Second Coming Will Be, the Millennial Shabbat of the Year 6000 YB, Jubilees

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
OK, thanks for the clarification. But we don't know if most will be righteous.

Reading the various OT and NT prophecies, there will be a lot of were not righteous.

That point is just is not spelled.

With the temple back and the law in force there will be many just going through the motions just as it did in the OT.

We do know, it says it here,

Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. (Isaiah 65:20)

This prophecy implies that there will indeed be sinners, but very few, which corresponds with,

For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Yehovah as the waters cover the sea. (Habakkuk 2:14)

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my set-apart mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of Yehovah as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:9)
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who said they will be wicked? The earth will be full of righteousness during the one thousand year rulership of the Messiah on this earth
So, some of the righteous will rule over others that are righteous? That's a new one. The Bible is clear that all the righteous will reign with Him on His throne (Revelation 3:21), not a select few reigning over others as you suggest here.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We do know, it says it here,

Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. (Isaiah 65:20)

This prophecy implies that there will indeed be sinners, but very few, which corresponds with,

For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Yehovah as the waters cover the sea. (Habakkuk 2:14)

They will neither harm nor destroy on all my set-apart mountain, for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of Yehovah as the waters cover the sea. (Isaiah 11:9)

When Satan his release from the pit, he gathers and army from the nation's and Marches on Jerusalem.

God responds to Christ destroying the heavens and the earth. Those are evil people their lives during the MK.

And nations are required to pilgrimage to Jerusalem during the MK who attacked Jerusalem. So clearly there's a lot of evil people there.

Knowing and heeding are two very different things.

As with the angels before Adam and Eve. The 1/3rd rebelled even having been with God and having seen him create the earth.
 

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, some of the righteous will rule over others that are righteous? That's a new one. The Bible is clear that all the righteous will reign with Him on His throne (Revelation 3:21), not a select few reigning over others as you suggest here.

Because there is a distinction between those who inherited the kingdom of God and those among the nations who did not. Those who inherited the kingdom of God will become glorified and immortal, just as the Messiah, and will rule this earth with the Messiah, and in this way, will thus be set apart from the nations, who will still be subjected to death, yet few will still be sinners, which is the last thousand years before sin and death is completely removed from creation. The throne of the Messiah will be on this earth, in Mount Zion, as it is written, which will flow with lava towards Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, which will become the place of punishment, the "lake of fire".
 

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When Satan his release from the pit, he gathers and army from the nation's and Marches on Jerusalem.

God responds to Christ destroying the heavens and the earth. Those are evil people their lives during the MK.

And nations are required to pilgrimage to Jerusalem during the MK who attacked Jerusalem. So clearly there's a lot of evil people there.

Knowing and heeding are two very different things.

As with the angels before Adam and Eve. The 1/3rd rebelled even having been with God and having seen him create the earth.

Satan deceives the nations at the end of the thousand year rulership of the Messiah, which implies the nations will become lawless again at the end of his rulership, not during his rulership while Satan is bound.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That is not true, because even evil angels existed and lived in heaven, where the throne of God is.
In heaven, yes, but did they enter into the glorious presence of God? You and I have no way of knowing - but even if evil angels through some forbearance of God were granted safe access to His glorious presence, it is clear from Scripture that no such provision can be claimed by mankind:

1. God Himself declares no man (obviously means "no sinner") can see His face and live (Exodus 33:20).
2. Manoah said he and his wife will die for having seen God, though His glory was hidden (Judges 13:22).
3. Although Isaiah only saw Jesus in vision, not reality, he feared greatly for his life (Isaiah 6:5).
4. Jacob rejoiced that he didn't die after wrestling with God, though His glory was hidden (Genesis 32:30).
5. The "brightness of His coming" destroys the "Man of Sin" (1 Thess. 2:8).
6. Paul says no man has seen or can see God's unapproachable glory (1 Tim. 6:16).
7. Although John only saw Jesus in vision, not reality, he fell down as dead (Revelation 1:17).
8. The glory of a single angel left Roman soldiers as dead men - how much more God's glory (Matthew 28:4).
9. Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul - every single one in Scripture that saw God's glory merely by prophetic vision alone, and not reality, speaks of great fear for their lives.

What you are proposing - that sinners will safely exist in the glorious presence of God and serve Him during His 1,000 year reign over them - not only lacks Biblical precedent, but is in complete opposition to established Biblical precedent.
And even when the temple stood on earth previously, the presence of God lived among the Israelites who were stiff necked and evil.
His glory was kept behind the veil of the temple, only once a year did a man enter therein - with ropes attached to his feet because if he entered with unconfessed sin on his record, his carcass had to be dragged out from under the veil by other waiting priests.
The Messiah will live on this earth, among the nations, and will rule them with a rod of iron. And the earth will be full of righteousness, and very few will be sinners.
How did you conclude this? The "rule all nations with a rod of iron" is interpreted in Psalm 2 as "breaking" and "dashing to pieces" the nations - which takes place at the Second Coming. Remember the Stone that strikes the image of Daniel 2?

The "few men left" are the righteous that survive the destruction of the wicked.
  • "...narrow is the way that leadeth unto life and few there by that find it."
  • "...many shall seek to enter in, and not be able."
  • "For many are called but few are chosen."
  • "...while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
  • "Fear not, little flock..."
 

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In heaven, yes, but did they enter into the glorious presence of God? You and I have no way of knowing - but even if evil angels through some forbearance of God were granted safe access to His glorious presence, it is clear from Scripture that no such provision can be claimed by mankind:

1. God Himself declares no man (obviously means "no sinner") can see His face and live (Exodus 33:20).
2. Manoah said he and his wife will die for having seen God, though His glory was hidden (Judges 13:22).
3. Although Isaiah only saw Jesus in vision, not reality, he feared greatly for his life (Isaiah 6:5).
4. Jacob rejoiced that he didn't die after wrestling with God, though His glory was hidden (Genesis 32:30).
5. 1 Timothy 6:16).
6. The "brightness of His coming" destroys "Man of Sin" (1 Thess. 2:8).
7. Paul says no man has seen or can see God's unapproachable glory (1 Tim. 6:16).
8. Although John only saw Jesus in vision, not reality, he fell down as dead (Revelation 1:17).
9. The glory of a single angel left Roman soldiers as dead men - how much more God's glory (Matthew 28:4).
10. Ezekiel, Daniel, Paul - everyone single one in Scripture that saw God's glory merely by prophetic vision alone, and not reality, speaks of great fear for their lives.

What you are proposing - that sinners will safely exist in the glorious presence of God and serve Him during His 1,000 year reign over them - not only lacks Biblical precedent, but is in complete opposition to established Biblical precedent.
His glory was kept behind the veil of the temple, only once a year did a man enter therein - with ropes attached to his feet because if he entered with unconfessed sin on his record, his carcass had to be dragged out from under the veil by other waiting priests.
How did you conclude this? The "rule all nations with a rod of iron" is interpreted in Psalm 2 as "breaking" and "dashing to pieces" the nations - which takes place at the Second Coming. Remember the Stone that strikes the image of Daniel 2?

The "few men left" are the righteous that survive the destruction of the wicked.
  • "...narrow is the way that leadeth unto life and few there by that find it."
  • "...many shall seek to enter in, and not be able."
  • "For many are called but few are chosen."
  • "...while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."
  • "Fear not, little flock..."

In the book of Job it tells us that Satan appeared before God, in heaven. Also, Yeshuah is not the Father, and although no man is able to see the Father and live, man is indeed able to see the glory of Yeshuah and live, just as men were able to see the glory of angels before and live, such as Moses and Israel to whom the Torah was given by angels. Also, sinners will not live safely while the Messiah lives on earth, for the Messiah will rule the earth with a rod of iron. For just as the Shabbat was a set-apart day where anyone who did any work was killed for profaning that set-apart day, so will many who sin in the millennial Shabbat be thrown into the lake of lava for committing even the smallest of sins, "anyone who says, 'you fool!', will be in danger to Gehenna". And this is why sinners, who will be very few, will be accursed, and live short lives, in comparison to the majority of the world, which will be righteous. Also, the earthly most set-apart place in the temple is not a symbol of the earth, but it is a symbol of heaven, meaning when the high priest entered the most set-apart place in the temple, that was symbolic of the Messiah entering the most set-apart place in heaven, where the Father is, which is not a place where just anyone can go. And when he comes back to the earth, he will leave that heavenly place, and live on this earth, to rule over it, in the last thousand years of his heaven and earth, for this heaven and earth is appointed to exist 7,000 years total, with the last thousand years as a millennial Shabbat. Next, there will indeed be few who will survive the destruction of the second coming of the Messiah, which will be those who inherit the kingdom of God, and those who are granted mercy among the nations, which will be few, which will be the lame, those that are the very least among the nations, which will multiply and become mighty nations during the thousand year rulership of the Messiah.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I could care less what the Jesuits said. I reject Catholicism, which believes in amillennialism
"I could care less" means the level of care that you have can be decreased. What you mean to say is, "I couldn't care less" which means your level of care is at rock bottom. By all means, do not care what the Jesuits say. The problem is that your Futurist ideas came forth straight out of the mind of a Jesuit priest, not from the Bible or what the Protestant Reformers said.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Because there is a distinction between those who inherited the kingdom of God and those among the nations who did not.
Where is this distinction made? My Bible says "Sheep and Goats" not "White Sheep, Black Sheep, Turquoise Sheep, etc. and Goats"
Those who inherited the kingdom of God will become glorified and immortal, just as the Messiah, and will rule this earth with the Messiah
No, they rule with Christ in heaven because when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night" Peter says the Earth is totally destroyed.
and in this way, will thus be set apart from the nations, who will still be subjected to death, yet few will still be sinners, which is the last thousand years before sin and death is completely removed from creation. The throne of the Messiah will be on this earth, in Mount Zion, as it is written, which will flow with lava towards Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, which will become the place of punishment, the "lake of fire".
The nations are destroyed, symbolized by the Stone (Jesus) that strikes the image of Daniel 2, which is the nations of the Earth that will be totally wiped out at the Second Coming - nothing remains behind.
 

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Where is this distinction made? My Bible says "Sheep and Goats" not "White Sheep, Black Sheep, Turquoise Sheep, etc. and Goats"
No, they rule with Christ in heaven because when Jesus comes "as a thief in the night" Peter says the Earth is totally destroyed.
The nations are destroyed, symbolized by the Stone (Jesus) that strikes the image of Daniel 2, which is the nations of the Earth that will be totally wiped out at the Second Coming - nothing remains behind.

The book of Revelation says, "blessed and SET-APART are those who partake in the first resurrection", meaning set apart from everyone else who did not partake in the first resurrection, which happens the at the second coming of the Messiah, which is a resurrection only for those who are his who will inherit the kingdom of God. Also, no one goes to heaven, when the Messiah returns, he comes to live on this earth, after he shatters the nations with plagues, in which case, we will live with him, on Mount Zion, on THIS earth. There is no scripture that says "we will rule in heaven". The scriptures say, "we will rule on the earth", THIS earth. After the the rulership of the Messiah is complete, Satan will be released to deceive the nations again, ON THIS EARTH, which are the nations that multiplied from the very few that were granted mercy to live at the second coming of the Messiah, and THEN, AFTER THAT, is the new heaven and new earth. Why is this so difficult to understand?
 
Last edited:

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In the book of Job it tells us that Satan appeared before God, in heaven. Also, Yeshuah is not the Father, and although no man is able to see the Father and live, man is indeed able to see the glory of Yeshuah and live, just as men were able to see the glory of angels before and live, such as Moses and Israel to whom the Torah was given by angels. Also, sinners will not live safely while the Messiah lives on earth, for the Messiah will rule the earth with a rod of iron. For just as the Shabbat was a set-apart day where anyone who did any work was killed for profaning that set-apart day, so will many who sin in the millennial Shabbat be thrown into the lake of lava for committing even the smallest of sins, "anyone who says, 'you fool!', will be in danger to Gehenna". And this is why sinners, who will be very few, will be accursed, and live short lives, in comparison to the majority of the world, which will be righteous. Also, the earthly most set-apart place in the temple is not a symbol of the earth, but it is a symbol of heaven, meaning when the high priest entered the most set-apart place in the temple, that was symbolic of the Messiah entering the most set-apart place in heaven, where the Father is, which is not a place where just anyone can go. And when he comes back to the earth, he will leave that heavenly place, and live on this earth, to rule over it, in the last thousand years of his heaven and earth, for this heaven and earth is appointed to exist 7,000 years total, with the last thousand years as a millennial Shabbat. Next, there will indeed be few who will survive the destruction of the second coming of the Messiah, which will be those who inherit the kingdom of God, and those who are granted mercy among the nations, which will be few, which will be the lame, those that are the very least among the nations, which will multiply and become mighty nations during the thousand year rulership of the Messiah.
I gave you TEN Biblical precedents for why sinful men cannot survive the presence of a holy glorified God, but you can't find a single one setting precedent for why sinful man may do so? Surely there must be at least one to support your position?
 

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I gave you TEN Biblical precedents for why sinful men cannot survive the presence of a holy glorified God, but you can't find a single one setting precedent for why sinful man may do so? Surely there must be at least one to support your position?

I already quoted the scriptures proving that the Messiah will rule on THIS earth, in his glorified form, over nations that you say will no longer exist, why do I have you keep quoting the same scriptures over and over again?
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The book of Revelation says, "blessed and SET-APART are those who partake in the first resurrection", meaning set apart from everyone else who did not partake in the first resurrection
You are preaching "Second Chance" not "Second Coming" where after Jesus comes to resurrect the saints, others still have a second chance to make it...which is no where found in Scripture.

How unjust of God...everybody who's lived all through the ages only got one chance to get it right, but those at the end get two?
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I already quoted the scriptures proving that the Messiah will rule on THIS earth, in his glorified form, over nations that you say will no longer exist, why do I have you keep quoting the same scriptures over and over again?
Your proof texts are predicated upon what is at the moment to me a false idea that sinful men will stand in the presence of a holy glorified God, which Biblical precedent I'm still waiting for you to provide. Change my mind?
 

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are preaching "Second Chance" not "Second Coming" where after Jesus comes to resurrect the saints, others still have a second chance to make it...which is no where found in Scripture.

How unjust of God...everybody who's lived all through the ages only got one chance to get it right, but those at the end get two?

It's called mercy. And not everyone will be granted mercy. Only the lame and the ones who are least among the nations, which will be very few. The rest, after having undergone the plagues of the second coming, will be gathered by the angels the Messiah came with, and taken to the valley of Jehoshaphat, to be judged, and then will be thrown into the lake of lava that will form in the valley of Hinnom. This is what will happen.
 

biloqewu

Active Member
Aug 6, 2018
275
58
28
37
Pompano Beach
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your proof texts are predicated upon what is at the moment to me a false idea that sinful men will stand in the presence of a holy glorified God, which Biblical precedent I'm still waiting for you to provide. Change my mind?

Man cannot stand in the presence of the Father, but man can indeed stand in the presence of Yeshuah, which is what this prophecy says will happen, men will go up to where the Messiah will be, to worship him, the nations that survived the second coming,

Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, Yehovah of armies, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yehovah of armies, there will be no rain on them. And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; which shall be the plague with which Yehovah afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zechariah 14:16-18)

See, Yehovah is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants— it will be the same for priest as for people, for the master as for his servant, for the mistress as for her servant, for seller as for buyer, for borrower as for lender, for debtor as for creditor. The earth will be completely laid waste and totally plundered. Yehovah has spoken this word. The earth dries up and withers, the world languishes and withers, the heavens languish with the earth. The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws, violated the statutes and broken the aeonial covenant. Therefore a curse consumes the earth; its people must bear their guilt. Therefore earth’s inhabitants are burned up, and very few are left. (Isaiah 24:1-6)
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"I could care less" means the level of care that you have can be decreased. What you mean to say is, "I couldn't care less" which means your level of care is at rock bottom. By all means, do not care what the Jesuits say. The problem is that your Futurist ideas came forth straight out of the mind of a Jesuit priest, not from the Bible or what the Protestant Reformers said.

It is a long accepted figure speech it is the same as I couldn't care more or I don't care at all. Take your pick.
 

Ac28

Active Member
May 18, 2016
425
119
43
Arkansas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What's weak about it? You're only evidence for the city coming down out of the New Heavens is demanding that the book of Revelation is in chronological order, which ALL SCHOLARS know is not the case:

Verse 1 and 2 says John saw the New Earth and New Heavens from which the city descends.
Verse 5 says that God still has yet to make "all things new".

If you allow the Hebrew Chiastic Structure to remain, then this apparent contradiction is not one at all - it's a non-chronological presentation of future events.

But since you refuse to allow it, the contradiction is inescapable. HOW CAN THERE BE A NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH IN VERSE 1 IF VERSE 5 SAYS GOD HAS YET TO MAKE ALL THINGS NEW?
ABSURD!!! Total Private interpretation. You have take excessive liberties with the idea that a few of the passages in Revelation are out of chronological sequence to adjust scripture to fit your agenda. You're not a believer of scripture - you're a manipulator of scripture.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's called mercy.
It's not "mercy" because from Adam until when Jesus declares "let him...be unjust still" and "let him...be holy still", the only hope for the salvation of the sinner is that he accept by faith that he is saved by "grace through faith"..."the just shall live by faith".

You say "by faith for some, by sight for others"...

...when last day sinners see all the Christians and babies vanish in the "secret rapture" or some other supernatural event that renders faith no longer necessary because for the first time, sinners will not only have their evidence God exists...but also a Second Chance to get right with God that was denied everyone else up until that time, right? I guess all that "watch and be ready" and "Today, if you hear his voice..." stuff doesn't matter, right? Sorry, "God is no respecter of persons". No Second Chance, only a Second Coming. Not "mercy", injustice.
 

Phoneman777

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2015
7,167
2,524
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Man cannot stand in the presence of the Father, but man can indeed stand in the presence of Yeshuah,
Once again, the Scriptures do not support your claims:

"...shall that great Wicked by revealed Whom the Lord (Jesus Christ or "Yeshuah" as you put it) shall consume with the Spirit of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming." (1 Thessalonians 2:7)

"And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it He should smite the nations: and He shall rule them with a rod of iron ("break" and "dash into pieces" is how He will rule them, according to Psalm 2:9 and Daniel 2:44) and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And He hath on [His] vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." (Revelation 19:15-16)