How Free Will Destroys the Gospel

justbyfaith said:

So then, you at the very least realize that we have a responsibility to evangelize...because the verses just previous to the one quoted tell us...how can they hear without a preacher? And how can they preach unless they are sent?

Thus the Calvinistic proposition that some are elect and some are non-elect...and that therefore we have no part in who believes and who doesn't...is false.

Also, there are those who heard the word but it was not mixed with faith in them that heard it...Hebrews 4:2...and therefore I would say that faith is a response to hearing the word of the Lord....and so is unbelief.

The same heat that melts the wax hardens the clay. Whether the wax chooses to melt or whether the clay chooses to harden, nobody knows....all we do know of the matter is that when the wax melts, we understand that it was wax all along (elect) and when the clay hardens, we understand that it was clay all along (non-elect).

However for the most part, we don't know whether something is wax or clay until we apply the heat (the preaching of the gospel).

There is a responsibility for us to preach the gospel...for if we never apply heat to the wax, it will never melt, and will forever be in the same state as hardened clay. This is at the risk that when we preach, those who are clay will indeed become hardened...and the devil may even try to tell the evangelist that he turned that person away from the faith by his preaching. However, there was nothing wrong with the preaching from the Lord's perspective, but everything wrong with the recipient...because they were clay and not wax, they hardened their heart to the preaching offered...and that is all there is to it!

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justbyfaith said:

The way I see it, apart from free will, we are faced with accepting either Universalism or Limited Atonement...one or the other.

Because Irresistible Grace is a reality (1 Corinthians 13:8, Revelation 19:6).

And therefore, if God wills all to come to repentance and to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, then all will (see 2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:3-4). Which indicates Universalism.

However, there is a hell, and certain people are going there (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46). Which indicates Limited Atonement.

But both can't be true at the same time; and the only answer I can think of to make it make any sense is free will and the fact that God's predestination is according to foreknowledge (Romans 8:29, 1 Peter 1:2).

God is Omnipotent and His love never fails; and therefore if there is anyone who does not enter the kingdom, either His love failed and He was not Omnipotent or else He didn't love them in the sense of choosing them from before the foundation of the world. Nevertheless God is not willing that any should perish.

The answer that my wife came up with to this inexplicable dilemna is that God in His sovereignty gave mankind a choice as to whether he would love God or reject Him...and then He chose the ones who would receive Him and predestinated them to salvation...like an author writing a book, who wants everyone to be the good guy and have a happy ending, but there would be no conflict in the story without a bad guy who gets defeated in the end...the author has a predetermined idea of how the story will go...in the midst of the story the characters make choices and may even surprise the author to make the outcome of the story slightly different than he originally thought in his planning out of the original story...

Or, it is like someone who looks at the outcome of a horse race, then goes back in time and bets on the horse that won the race.

God sovereignly choosing to give man a free choice is essential to the absence of a contradiction, if you will think on how these things are layed out.

With Irresistible Grace being a given, and the Lord wanting all men to be saved, it is Universalism apart from the concept of free will.

The fact of hell means Limited Atonement must be the reality except for the fact that Irresistible Grace + God wanting all men to be saved = Universalism.

But God can desire all men to be saved and His love cannot fail, and some people can go to hell (the reality that we see in scripture); if God in His sovereignty and love gave man a free choice in the matter of whether he will go to heaven.

In this scenario, God's love does not fail to give man a choice as to where he wants to go in eternity...but His love does not fail (and neither does His Omnipotence) even though some will not make it to heaven because they chose to go elsewhere.

Because, again, if God's love does not fail to bring a man to heaven, and God loves everyone (wanting them to be saved) then apart from free will you have Universalism...however it is clear from scripture that some will not be saved...and this cannot = Limited Atonement because God is not willing that any should perish.

So then, some (and not all) are saved through sovereign election, but this election is according to God's foreknowledge of whether they will choose to receive the gospel of their salvation and surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

For if man does not have a choice, then His going to hell means that God did not love him and wanted him to go to hell (since He is Omnipotent and His love never fails) or that all will go to heaven (which is not what the scripture teaches).

Therefore man having a free choice in the matter is the only option that is left.

Of course no one can come to Jesus unless the heavenly Father draws them.

So I would think that God draws every person at a specific time in their lives and they make their decision; the drawing effect of the Holy Spirit enables them to make a choice that is unhindered by outside forces.

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Enoch111 said:

This TOTALLY FALSE. Calvinism presents a false Gospel. Time to abandon that nonsense and get back to Bible truth.

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justbyfaith said:

Our God is infinite; and therefore He is able to atone for an infinite number of people.

Looking down the corridor of time He chose to predestinate those whom He knew would make it if He did so with them.

In this, we do not choose Him but He chooses us; but He does so based on His knowledge of who He has created each one of us to be and therefore what choice we would make in each opportunity; when given an opportunity to receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour.

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bbyrd009 said:

^ lol Dave, no offense meant ok

22The glory that You have given Me I have given to them

!

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justbyfaith said:

Grace saves those who do believe (Romans 5:1-2). It does not save those who do not.

It is not a work to respond in faith to the gospel message.

But of course, in John 6:28-29, Jesus says, "if you are going to insist on being saved by works, then believing on the One whom He hath sent is the only work that will save..."

Jesus does this to those stubborn ones who insist on salvation by works...pointing them back to the only way, which is faith in Him apart from works (Romans 4:6).

Nevertheless faith is shown to be diametrically opposite to works in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Galatians 3:10-13.

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justbyfaith said:

Again, responding in faith, i.e. saying "yes" to God...is not a self-righteous act...it is the response of a softened heart, which is a work of the Holy Spirit.

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justbyfaith said:

We have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Romans 5:1-2.

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justbyfaith said:

Believing or not believing is the response.

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