What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ

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bbyrd009

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Neither do I condemn thee
oh, i srsly doubt that. "thee?" lol
but have only puzzlement and a sadness.
no condemnation at all though right. narf
Halted between two opinions is an interminal crisis.
iow in this context one should seek to become halted between two opinions, this is an excellent place to find yourself for a bit imo, i guess you won't even want to go back :D.

i enjoy your posts too Frank, imo we need more defeated believers in here proudly declaring how the sky is falling and how much pain they are in every day, ty. Thank God that when Jesus Returns you will All Go to Heaven or something, right. keep comin back though, ok Frank?
 

Jane_Doe22

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I agree Brother Frank Lee, and I posted the previous reply in the URL link below saying as much. I just hope many reading these posts aren't swayed into thinking LDS is an option for us to having God's best.
What I actually believe -- sharing love of Christ
As I said earlier, Galatians 1 is one of my favorite chapters in scripture and a big part of the reason my faith is what it is today :)
 
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Jane_Doe22

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i'll take LDS over Cult of Sol Invictus most any day though i guess; they will not be judged for their beliefs, after all?
I've long ago realized that some people believe that belonging to group X is enough to automatically qualify or disqualify you from being a disciple of God. I don't remotely share this viewpoint, and passionately disagree with it. But still, there's nothing I can do to change other people's beliefs. I can only acknowledge that that's their choice, and move on with my life / relationship with God.
 

Frank Lee

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Hi @Frank Lee ! I have very much enjoyed your posts about Christ here and rattlesnakes too.

All people are sinners. And over the centuries even Christians have committed many horrors- even murdering millions. It is absolutely inexcusably tragic. But being a Christian of any type is not about following a sinner- it's about following Christ-- after all, the Bible's own definition of a Christian is a disciple of Christ's. And that's what each of us are here. Some of us do believe that, while all humans are flawed, that God does ask us to be part of a community and call (imperfect) teachers to help guide us. These should never replace God, but rather are servants to help support us in our walk with God.

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Hello little girl! I can say that to almost any now haha!

As to teachers I lean upon this;

1 John 2:27 KJVS
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I only listen to men as they speak according to the Bible.

As says the word.

Isaiah 8:20 KJVS
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

People go astray not all at once but by little and little. A little leaven leaves the whole lump. I don't have to associate myself with any that have committed murder no matter their name! It's a decision. If you're hooked on assemblies then that's that.

I find Christians everywhere I go and try to serve by humbling myself and allowing the indwelling Holy Spirit to speak through me.

Getting saved is being born of the spirit. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is being filled with the Holy Spirit.

For all I say this, You must be baptized in theHPraises of oly Spirit as were those on the day of Pentecost, as Cornelius and his group, as those in Acts chapter 8 and Acts chapter 19.

Until this event takes place you walk as a natural man. No matter how great your personal zeal the indwelling Holy Spirit is greater. It is a dire necessity for every believer,wrutten of in the old and new testament.

Having been a lifelong loner suspicious of men and their doings I am wary of any groups. We've had churches where I've stood and prophesied by the Holy Spirit but have seen over forty years many of them grow away from the Bible. While still having affection for people I cannot abide doctrines that have wrestled them away to odd doctrines. Like brother Paul I try to make myself all things to all men so that by all means some might be saved. I fail frequently becoming exasperated at anti-bible stances.

Just like salvation I'd never heard of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It was like this. Before work one day I listened to Shirley Boone give her testimony on TV. She was going through a trial with her husband Pat and went to pray. Pouring out her heart to God she noticed that she'd been speaking in a language she didn't know for some time.

Never having heard of such a thing ibthought "well she's a movie star's wife I can seed God doing that for her". I'd only been born again of the spirit of God a short while and that's how little I knew of him!

Praying and weeping before him later a, strange thought came strongly, "if God did that for her maybe he'd do it for you". I was amazed to think this but began to make up words, baby talk but in a minute or less I was not making them up. The Lord Jesus christ had baptized me in that wonderful Holy Spirit of promise. One word frequently repeated those early days was YESH-UA. I found it meant Jesus.


To you and to all I say this.

1. You must be born again. If this has happened you'll know it. There's A must be a point in time that you actually become a different person. A brand spanking new creature in Christ Jesus.

2. After truly being born again you should be baptized in water, fully immersed as were those of old. In my case as for Cornelius, I was filled with, baptized in the Holy Spirit before water baptism. Order isn't important as states the Bible.

3. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is wonderful. It will bring the anointing and whatsoever gifts he want to undue you with. As I stated, this can come before or after biblical water baptism.

I can write literal books of acts of God that we've seen. Children doctors said we couldn't have, deliverance from severe sicknesses and heart troubles. Deliverance from deadly traffic accidents where Satan tried to kill me, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, discernment of spirits, casting out devils.

You must be born again, baptized in water and the Holy Spirit.

The Lord led me to, sent me to a Jew, Daniel Eichenbaum and I explained to him my experiences and that I belonged to no denomination at all. Daniel's family were orthodox Jews. Daniel, in his 40's, gave his heart to Jesus and became a Christian. He was past president of the governor's prayer breakfast. He's gone to be with God now.

I push for no denomination at all. They are men's creations not God's same as LDS, Catholic, protestant, whatever. It's only been in the past few years that the Holy Spirit showed me that the creation man worships most are the denominations he created. Every one of them is in denial of large segments of God's word.

There are many at this site, other sites that deny each of my experiences with God, holding fast their love of their chosen denomination over the love of Jesus the Christ.

John 12:43 KJVS
For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

I preach Jesus and his words. Consider what I say please. And I believe that I have the spirit of God and am commissioned to speak as the very oracle of God as says the word. Amen
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Hello little girl! I can say that to almost any now haha!

As to teachers I lean upon this;

1 John 2:27 KJVS
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I only listen to men as they speak according to the Bible.

As says the word.

Isaiah 8:20 KJVS
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

People go astray not all at once but by little and little. A little leaven leaves the whole lump. I don't have to associate myself with any that have committed murder no matter their name! It's a decision. If you're hooked on assemblies then that's that.

I find Christians everywhere I go and try to serve by humbling myself and allowing the indwelling Holy Spirit to speak through me.

Getting saved is being born of the spirit. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is being filled with the Holy Spirit.

For all I say this, You must be baptized in theHPraises of oly Spirit as were those on the day of Pentecost, as Cornelius and his group, as those in Acts chapter 8 and Acts chapter 19.

Until this event takes place you walk as a natural man. No matter how great your personal zeal the indwelling Holy Spirit is greater. It is a dire necessity for every believer,wrutten of in the old and new testament.

Having been a lifelong loner suspicious of men and their doings I am wary of any groups. We've had churches where I've stood and prophesied by the Holy Spirit but have seen over forty years many of them grow away from the Bible. While still having affection for people I cannot abide doctrines that have wrestled them away to odd doctrines. Like brother Paul I try to make myself all things to all men so that by all means some might be saved. I fail frequently becoming exasperated at anti-bible stances.

Just like salvation I'd never heard of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It was like this. Before work one day I listened to Shirley Boone give her testimony on TV. She was going through a trial with her husband Pat and went to pray. Pouring out her heart to God she noticed that she'd been speaking in a language she didn't know for some time.

Never having heard of such a thing ibthought "well she's a movie star's wife I can seed God doing that for her". I'd only been born again of the spirit of God a short while and that's how little I knew of him!

Praying and weeping before him later a, strange thought came strongly, "if God did that for her maybe he'd do it for you". I was amazed to think this but began to make up words, baby talk but in a minute or less I was not making them up. The Lord Jesus christ had baptized me in that wonderful Holy Spirit of promise. One word frequently repeated those early days was YESH-UA. I found it meant Jesus.


To you and to all I say this.

1. You must be born again. If this has happened you'll know it. There's A must be a point in time that you actually become a different person. A brand spanking new creature in Christ Jesus.

2. After truly being born again you should be baptized in water, fully immersed as were those of old. In my case as for Cornelius, I was filled with, baptized in the Holy Spirit before water baptism. Order isn't important as states the Bible.

3. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is wonderful. It will bring the anointing and whatsoever gifts he want to undue you with. As I stated, this can come before or after biblical water baptism.

I can write literal books of acts of God that we've seen. Children doctors said we couldn't have, deliverance from severe sicknesses and heart troubles. Deliverance from deadly traffic accidents where Satan tried to kill me, words of knowledge, words of wisdom, discernment of spirits, casting out devils.

You must be born again, baptized in water and the Holy Spirit.

The Lord led me to, sent me to a Jew, Daniel Eichenbaum and I explained to him my experiences and that I belonged to no denomination at all. Daniel's family were orthodox Jews. Daniel, in his 40's, gave his heart to Jesus and became a Christian. He was past president of the governor's prayer breakfast. He's gone to be with God now.

I push for no denomination at all. They are men's creations not God's same as LDS, Catholic, protestant, whatever.

I preach Jesus and his words. Consider what I say please. And I believe that I have the spirit of God and am commissioned to speak as the very oracle of God as says the word. Amen

Thumbs up for some great Bible verses!

I'm totally with you on the importance of listening the God, the Bible, baptism by water, and baptism by the Spirit/fire, being born again, etc. The one thing I do disagree on with you is the anti-social component. God gives us His words in scripture, His Spirit to testify to our hearts, and also other mortals to help us on our walk with Christ. Like your experience with Shirley Boone. I've had many great experiences myself with other disciples of Christ lifting me up to a higher place and teaching/reminding me of His Truths. For that reason and various scripture verses I can't shun the idea of believers gathering together to teach/support each other-- such is actually a key part of how God works. That doesn't mean we don't love scripture & the Spirit at the same time.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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(The following is a vent)

My blindly anti-Mormon Mother-in-Law came for Thanksgiving.

I love her dearly ... 97% of the time. Not when she goes on her anti-Mormon kicks though. She berated my non-denominational husband for... folding his arms as he lead bedtime prayers. And them me for... reading the Bible with my daughter (that night's stories were baby Jesus, women at the tomb, and the Last Supper). All because I'm not an Evangelical-- a "real Christian" in her mind. But she refuses to talk to talk about it or my very real faith in Christ. Instead she just wants to be angry and prejudice... even after 20 years of this game.
 

amadeus

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(The following is a vent)

My blindly anti-Mormon Mother-in-Law came for Thanksgiving.

I love her dearly ... 97% of the time. Not when she goes on her anti-Mormon kicks though. She berated my non-denominational husband for... folding his arms as he lead bedtime prayers. And them me for... reading the Bible with my daughter (that night's stories were baby Jesus, women at the tomb, and the Last Supper). All because I'm not an Evangelical-- a "real Christian" in her mind. But she refuses to talk to talk about it or my very real faith in Christ. Instead she just wants to be angry and prejudice... even after 20 years of this game.
Some people will never change, but then again there are some who do...

The first wife of my only full brother was born and grew up always in the LDS. What she did to my five year old daughter sickens me to this day... more than her two sons who molested the small child.

She was the exception to Mormons I have met. Although her two sons finally admitted to the lies they told against my daughter and apologized to me and my wife, my sister-in-law never spoke to us again from the date of the event until her death many years later. One son admitted his lies the with an hour of telling them. The other son called us from France a several years later to apologize to us for what he had done to our daughter and for lying to us. Their mama never apologized. She would never admit that her sons had molested my daughter [about 5 years younger than the youngest boy] and then lied about it . Of course we forgave the two boys.

One young man who worked with me for Social Security in Wyoming was fired because he was Mormon. Although unlike my sister-in-law he lived a very good life according to what I could see. I mentored him on the job, so I knew he was not incompetent although that was the reason given for firing him. I argued for him with the manager, but the decision was hers. She had apparently wanted my support in showing him was incapable doing his job, but I leaned the way. She was the boss and fired him anyway. He had the right to appeal, but refused to do so.

My final example was my own mother who I loved dearly and she did love me. The problem was that no woman of my choosing could make her happy. She was not a Mormon, but a Catholic who hated my wife from day one. At her instigation my mother's boyfriend, a very wealthy man, offered my then fiancé a large sum of money to leave town along with a promise to never try to see me again. I stood by my fiancé and we were married in 1972.

In spite of many early battles which came close to fisticuffs between the two, my mother and my wife, another of God's miracles came to pass between them prior to my mother's death in 2006. They finally became close friends for the last several years of my mother's life. My mother got to the point where she would call from California to talk to my wife in Oklahoma for advice. It really was a miracle.

Give God the glory!
 

Jane_Doe22

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But to the topic that is prevalent throughout this thread...

God gives spiritual gifts to His children...and we can benefit from the spiritual gifts of other people, even when they operate through the writing down of the insights given to them through their spiritual gift...teaching, word of wisdom, and exhortation are gifts that can be transferred onto paper and the benefits of them made more permanent thereby.

As for the creeds, there is a relevance that I would give to them in that they were the end result of many years of debate...I happen to believe that if anyone having the Holy Spirit were involved in the debate, the one having the Holy Spirit would be victorious and their pov would prevail..because of Luke 21:15 as substantiated by Acts of the Apostles 6:10.

@Jane_Doe22, I understand that you are a Mormon...and whether you like it or not, that is defined as a cult by most Christian sources.

I would point out to you what it says in Romans 15:26-27, that ministering in carnal things means to make a contribution of monetary value...and that in 1 Corinthians 9:11 in context it is written that pastors were allowed to reap in carnal things because they sowed in spiritual things...

So the argument is won...and the victor is not the person who won the argument in the Book of Mormon...in fact the opposite pov is the victor!

Just a point to ponder...because if even one thing is wrong with Mormon doctrine then the whole thing needs to be called into question.
(This was on my list of "post I need to reply to" but didn't get around to for a while and the thread it was on went elsewhere. So I brought it over here to reply to).


God gives spiritual gifts to His children...and we can benefit from the spiritual gifts of other people, even when they operate through the writing down of the insights given to them through their spiritual gift...teaching, word of wisdom, and exhortation are gifts that can be transferred onto paper and the benefits of them made more permanent thereby.
Amen!!!
@Jane_Doe22, I understand that you are a Mormon...and whether you like it or not, that is defined as a cult by most Christian sources.

I would point out to you what it says in Romans 15:26-27, that ministering in carnal things means to make a contribution of monetary value...and that in 1 Corinthians 9:11 in context it is written that pastors were allowed to reap in carnal things because they sowed in spiritual things...

So the argument is won...and the victor is not the person who won the argument in the Book of Mormon...in fact the opposite pov is the victor!

Just a point to ponder...because if even one thing is wrong with Mormon doctrine then the whole thing needs to be called into question.
Hi @justbyfaith :)

I'm an interfaith nerd who loves hearing what different people believe and think, so yes I am very aware that many people are very misinformed as to what I or other folks in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe. Some of the crazy rumors I've heard people say just make me laugh my socks off actually. Others make me go "... you got that 500% just flat out wrong"-- sometimes it's a completely innocent misunderstanding. Other times (most "counter cult" books) it's just someone spewing a bunch of garbage that doesn't remotely resemble what I actually believe.

Regardless, it's nice to actually set the record straight, if people want to hear it. If people don't that's their choice. I respect everyone's right to believe what they do, regardless of what I think of it. As I said earlier, I'm a huge interfaith nerd and 100% respect your beliefs about God. Totally. I have zero interest in prosylizing (giving or receiving).

So yeah, feel free to ask any questions you want. I'd also recommend checking out the first page of this thread where I just came out and cut to the chase on the most important things.

God be with you!
 

justbyfaith

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Hi @Jane_Doe22,

Knowing that you have an aversion to anything that might be considered "proselytizing", I feel that the love of Christ compels me to say something along that line anyway, to plant a little "seed" in your mind, just to think about. I don't expect it to convert you on the spot or anything like that; and you have he option of not looking up the scripture that I am going to reference (as this is how I do things in order to avoid being pushy with my faith...I both disperse knowledge and I conceal it at the same time (Proverbs 12:23, Proverbs 15:7) by giving reference to what I am talking about unless it is a situation where actually quoting the verse is necessary in order to succeed in contending for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 1:3-4).

The passage I had in mind is Matthew 7:13-14, by way of addressing the fact that you call yourself an "interfaith nerd".

If you want to discuss any further what that passage means for you I am open to talk.

Love in Christ,

@justbyfaith.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Hi @Jane_Doe22,

Knowing that you have an aversion to anything that might be considered "proselytizing", I feel that the love of Christ compels me to say something along that line anyway, to plant a little "seed" in your mind, just to think about. I don't expect it to convert you on the spot or anything like that; and you have he option of not looking up the scripture that I am going to reference (as this is how I do things in order to avoid being pushy with my faith...I both disperse knowledge and I conceal it at the same time (Proverbs 12:23, Proverbs 15:7) by giving reference to what I am talking about unless it is a situation where actually quoting the verse is necessary in order to succeed in contending for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 1:3-4).

The passage I had in mind is Matthew 7:13-14, by way of addressing the fact that you call yourself an "interfaith nerd".

If you want to discuss any further what that passage means for you I am open to talk.

Love in Christ,

@justbyfaith.
A little clarification on what I mean by "interfaith nerd": I mean I enjoy studying other faiths. Just like some people enjoy studying football or airplanes or history, I enjoy studying other faiths. I love to hear other people proclaim their love of God, and greatly enjoy talking to them about what they believe-- because it helps me better understand and love them. I visit other churches, attend services there, talk to be people there, and of course talk to a variety of people online. So yes, I've probably even attended churches similar to what you believe many times. So you can can count "seeds plant if you wish".

By "interfaith nerd" I was in NO means implying that me just blindly accepting any belief as "same difference- it's all good". Rather I'm quite stringent in my own beliefs and only adopt each tenet after very thorough investigation, study, and prayer. For example: I spent 11 months doing a thorough study of Catholicism, just to better love/understand Catholic people after listening to what they believe. At the end of the 11 months I had very thoroughly had my love/understanding of Catholic people increased. But I was no where closer to joining Catholicism-- actually the reverse was very true because there is a lot of Catholic beliefs I do not hold at all (epistemological approaches, infant baptism, Marian doctrines, general church structure, etc). I didn't have to study Catholicism intensively for 11 months to know that I don't find it to be completely True. But that's not why I visited and studied: I visited and studied to better love and understand the people found there.

It's the same story with my studies with the beliefs of Baptists, Wiccan, Methodists, Islam, Lutherans, JW, Episcopalian, Buddhist, non-denom Christian, Taoist, Jewish, Orthodox, etc. I'm an "interfaith nerd" because I want to understand and love all these people. Not because I'm looking to find Truth in their doctrines.
 

justbyfaith

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How does Matthew 7:13-14 apply to certain doctrines in Mormonism that in my mind amount to Universalism?

"broad is the way that leads to destruction."
 

justbyfaith

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I was under the impression that Mormons hold to the view that "Jesus is the Saviour of all men; especially of those that believe," and that they take that verse to mean that no one goes to hell but they go to one of the three kingdoms in Mormonism (I don't know the names of these off hand).
 

Jane_Doe22

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I was under the impression that Mormons hold to the view that "Jesus is the Saviour of all men; especially of those that believe," and that they take that verse to mean that no one goes to hell but they go to one of the three kingdoms in Mormonism (I don't know the names of these off hand).
The LDS view remotely universalism.

LDS do indeed believe that Christ is the the Savior of all, and all mankind will be resurrected because of Him. All individuals also have the opportunity to accept Him. Those that fully do shall live forever fully with God. Those that reject Him don't and their afterlife is much less enjoyful. It's still over-the-top-mindblowing-wonderful than what we're used to (because God is so merciful), but doesn't hold a candle to the joy that comes with fully embracing God.
I'm going to hit the hay for the night...will pick this up again in the morning.
*Thumbs up*
 

Mayflower

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So I've been on vacation 2 weeks and got through a few pages. Bahaha. Very interesting read with Jane and Blueberry. I think one thing that had drew me to Mormonism in the past was answering the question about Hell. Like "missionaries" from the higher heavens evangelize in the lower degrees of Heaven. Christians would see Jesus. But another degree of Heaven you can see the Father. Am I off in my understanding?
 

Jane_Doe22

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So I've been on vacation 2 weeks and got through a few pages. Bahaha. Very interesting read with Jane and Blueberry. I think one thing that had drew me to Mormonism in the past was answering the question about Hell. Like "missionaries" from the higher heavens evangelize in the lower degrees of Heaven. Christians would see Jesus. But another degree of Heaven you can see the Father. Am I off in my understanding?
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you @Mayflower. Work was crazy busy last week.

Your understanding is mostly correct. There is some stuff details timing that could use clarification, but not something to worry about. I'd rather stay big picture right now: yes, I (and other LDS Christians) do indeed believe that someone must accept Christ in order to be saved. Those people that didn't have/use the opportunity in this life shall have the opportunity to hear the Good News and accept Him them. For me this is.... strong justice and merciful of God. Rather than damn those who didn't have the opportunity to accept Christ in this life or wave away the requirement to believe in Christ.
 

Jane_Doe22

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What does "saved" mean in Mormonism, since no one goes to hell in Mormonism?
Yes, 'saved from' is certainly a vital part of the question, isn't it.

(Mind you, a lot of so called evangelicals seem to believe in annihilation into some sort of limbo...)
I don't love Christ because I'm trying to afraid some eternal barbecue if I don't. And frankly, I find such fear-based motivation to be... extremely undesirable in any relationship, let alone the most important one (with God). Rather, I come to Christ out of love and emulate Him out of that love. And He of course makes that change possible (I'm not the one doing any of the heavy lifting here).

Christ saves us from death: physical and spiritual. Physical in that we will all physically live again-- every single person will be resurrected. And spiritual in that our spiritual separation from God (that separation we bring about via sin) can be removed and we can be with Him more fully.

LDS view of the afterlife for unrepentant sinners doesn't involve an eternal barbecue. But it does involve that eternal separation from the greater portion of God and His light, because no unclean thing can dwell with Him.