Jesus!

justbyfaith · Dec 7, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
then start Quoting imo and let's see, he said to the believer who still does not realize what testifying of himself means
iow no, they will not verify what you have said, in fact the opposite is more likely true, but there's only one way to find out right
Quote Bible is Word from any verse you like, or bam give us a witness or two too, and make your case already; verify what you have said iow, in the same manner that you say it will be verified, so that i and the cloud of witnesses around us may learn and be taught this, and ty

Go ahead and read the NIV, the NASB, and/or translations like it if you want, it is no skin off my back.

You are putting the "onus" on me, and I am saying that anyone can do the research and they will find the same thing that I have found, if they do the research with reliance on the Holy Spirit.

I do not go there any more; because in pointing out the damnable heresies that are taught by such Bibles as the NIV and the NASB, I have unwittingly brought those heresies to the forefront in times past, and I fear that I may be held accountable if anyone believes in them because of the fact that I spoke of them. I am not going to put myself in that kind of spiritual danger again.

In other words, the evidence is there and I am not going to do your homework for you.

Deborah_ · Dec 7, 2018

All I can say, having read the NIV from end to end many times, is that I have yet to find any unusual doctrine, let alone heresy, in it.

We are all entitled to have preferences for one translation or another (because none are perfect); but no-one should demonise a translation just because they don't like it.

justbyfaith · Dec 7, 2018

Again, I would very likely be sinning against the Lord if I went into detail and brought again to the forefront how the NIV preaches damnable heresies...so if you want to take your chances knowing that someone has seen them in that translation, then your blood will be on your own head if you start believing them in the long run.

bbyrd009 · Dec 7, 2018

well pls how would you know if you were sinning against God right now, may i ask

justbyfaith said:
You are putting the "onus" on me,

um, well this is a forum after all bro; and i am just asking for a Quote of a single v at the moment ok
the argument is over anyway, there is no onus, see

justbyfaith said:
and I am saying that anyone can do the research and they will find the same thing that I have found, if they do the research with reliance on the Holy Spirit.

ok, and i am saying that they won't, and i am prepared to demonstrate that from Scripture

justbyfaith said:
I do not go there any more; because in pointing out the damnable heresies that are taught by such Bibles as the NIV and the NASB, I have unwittingly brought those heresies to the forefront in times past, and I fear that I may be held accountable if anyone believes in them because of the fact that I spoke of them. I am not going to put myself in that kind of spiritual danger again.

ah well wadr hilarious, but completely irrelevant ok. You can use any tranny you like as far as i am concerned, not even sure where this NASB NIV jazz came from, sorry. Quote it from an Interlinear, or a Lex

In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God

justbyfaith said:
In other words, the evidence is there and I am not going to do your homework for you.

i trust that any reader can/will rephrase this more to their perceptions anyway, doubt they need me, and also what you would have done if the evidence was in fact there, but um...ty for the heads up on homework, ok

amadeus · Dec 7, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Go ahead and read the NIV, the NASB, and/or translations like it if you want, it is no skin off my back.

You are putting the "onus" on me, and I am saying that anyone can do the research and they will find the same thing that I have found, if they do the research with reliance on the Holy Spirit.

I do not go there any more; because in pointing out the damnable heresies that are taught by such Bibles as the NIV and the NASB, I have unwittingly brought those heresies to the forefront in times past, and I fear that I may be held accountable if anyone believes in them because of the fact that I spoke of them. I am not going to put myself in that kind of spiritual danger again.

In other words, the evidence is there and I am not going to do your homework for you.

I believe you misunderstand our friend @bbyrd009 and his meaning. I think that he believes as I do that no translation/version of WRITTEN scripture is equal to the Word of God. Until those written words are quickened [brought to Life] in a person they are NOT the Word of God even though they are Bible. A good translation versus a bad translation can make a difference, but how many people has the education or expertise to tell correctly recognize even that difference. The key to the Word of God is the heart of the person and the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person. With even a poor translation [I am not calling any translation that] a person can hear, really hear, the Word of God. We are limited, but God is not limited. This is one message, [Word] that I have received from this verse:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

As you may recall I regularly read in English the KJV. Our friend @bbyrd009 if I remember correctly reads none of the regular translations, but relies rather heavily on a literal lexicon found on the Internet. That is not such a terrible way to help us compare the available possibilities. A better way might be to be an expert on the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, but how many of us could or would or should do that? Not me!

mjrhealth · Dec 7, 2018

justbyfaith said:
Searching the scriptures to verify what I have said will serve only to verify what I have said, if you go to the task with reliance on the Holy Spirit; seeking His answer to the question from the throne room.

Ye ta man who goes before God, demanding that God agrees with a book, with in His own mind already believes He is right, how could God possibly tell him he is wrong, Like I said

I shall have no other Gods before me, you know Idols...

bbyrd009 · Dec 7, 2018

amadeus said:
A better way might be to be an expert on the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic, but how many of us could or would or should do that? Not me!

me neither, but this becomes irrelevant with a decent lexicon, even a Strong's one, as there are not that many agenda-driven corrections in it i guess. Prolly less than 20, and maybe 5 of those are significant.

bbyrd009 · Dec 7, 2018

Shepherd's Chapel still had some uncorrupted Strong's btw, as of last time i called about 6 months ago

amadeus · Dec 7, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
Shepherd's Chapel still had some uncorrupted Strong's btw, as of last time i called about 6 months ago

Is this intended as a possible resource?

Not likely something I would be look for although who knows when something is available what I would do. I used to love old book stores and second hand stores with book sections, but they are not like they were. Most of the books now available are junk... and of those that are not, how many would I put to good use?

I have fairly large library of reference books which I use some as I use Internet sources some, but mostly I keep on letting the Lord lead me as I read and study in my three translations. This old dog would be dead indeed without morning time which includes reading scripture as well as talking to God. Sometimes I still go after a specific answer when a question has caught my attention, but not like I once did. I spend as much or more time now, but I hope that I am led more often toward something that God wants me to have.

My flesh still bugs me at times when people who say the right things regularly do the wrong things. I wish I was never one of them. This is why the morning time is a must with me. Without it I would have quit trying to penetrate other people's fog long ago. God renews me and back into the battle I plunge.

Give God the glory!

Enoch111 · Dec 7, 2018

Deborah_ said:
All I can say, having read the NIV from end to end many times, is that I have yet to find any unusual doctrine, let alone heresy, in it.

The attacks on Bible doctrine through modern versions are subtle but clearly there. And so it is with the NIV (a confessed paraphrase, since it tells us that it is not a word-for-word translation).

Just one example of false doctrine to get you going:

Matthew 16:18 (NIV)
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades [c] will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be [d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be [e] loosed in heaven.”

Footnotes
b.Verse 18: The Greek word for Peter means rock.

That footnote is dishonest, false and misleading and is meant to promote the Roman Catholic teaching that Simon Peter -- not Christ the Rock -- is the one upon whom the Church is built.

Firstly a footnote was unnecessary. But if there was to be one, it should have shown the difference between Petros (a stone) and Petra (a massive rock or cliff). So that no Christian would ever think that Peter was the Rock.

κἀγὼ δέ σοι λέγω, ὅτι σὺ εἶ Πέτρος, (Petros) καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ (Petra) οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, καὶ πύλαι ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς.

Strong's Concordance
Petros: "a stone" or "a boulder," Peter, one of the twelve apostles
Original Word: Πέτρος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Petros
Phonetic Spelling: (pet'-ros)
Definition: "a stone" or "a boulder", Peter, one of the twelve apostles
Usage: Peter, a Greek name meaning rock.

Strong's Concordance
petra: a (large mass of) rock
Original Word: πέτρα, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: petra
Phonetic Spelling: (pet'-ra)
Definition: a (large mass of) rock
Usage: a rock, ledge, cliff, cave, stony ground.

Scripture makes it crystal clear that Christ is that Rock which is called Petra. The Church can only be built on Christ. So it is heresy to call Peter this Rock.

Deborah_ · Dec 10, 2018

Enoch111 said:
The attacks on Bible doctrine through modern versions are subtle but clearly there. And so it is with the NIV (a confessed paraphrase, since it tells us that it is not a word-for-word translation).

Just one example of false doctrine to get you going:

Matthew 16:18 (NIV)
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades [c] will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be [d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be [e] loosed in heaven.”

Footnotes
b.Verse 18: The Greek word for Peter means rock.

That footnote is dishonest, false and misleading and is meant to promote the Roman Catholic teaching that Simon Peter -- not Christ the Rock -- is the one upon whom the Church is built.

Firstly a footnote was unnecessary. But if there was to be one, it should have shown the difference between Petros (a stone) and Petra (a massive rock or cliff). So that no Christian would ever think that Peter was the Rock.

κἀγὼ δέ σοι λέγω, ὅτι σὺ εἶ Πέτρος, (Petros) καὶ ἐπὶ ταύτῃ τῇ πέτρᾳ (Petra) οἰκοδομήσω μου τὴν ἐκκλησίαν, καὶ πύλαι ᾅδου οὐ κατισχύσουσιν αὐτῆς.

Strong's Concordance
Petros: "a stone" or "a boulder," Peter, one of the twelve apostles
Original Word: Πέτρος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Petros
Phonetic Spelling: (pet'-ros)
Definition: "a stone" or "a boulder", Peter, one of the twelve apostles
Usage: Peter, a Greek name meaning rock.

Strong's Concordance
petra: a (large mass of) rock
Original Word: πέτρα, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: petra
Phonetic Spelling: (pet'-ra)
Definition: a (large mass of) rock
Usage: a rock, ledge, cliff, cave, stony ground.

Scripture makes it crystal clear that Christ is that Rock which is called Petra. The Church can only be built on Christ. So it is heresy to call Peter this Rock.

And this footnote is supposed to establish an entire false doctrine? Only in your imagination. Petros/Petra is a word-play - Peter couldn't be Petra in Greek because Petra is feminine and Peter is a man. And didn't you notice that your quote from Strong's Concordance says: "Peter, a Greek name meaning rock"? If the NIV is promoting RC teaching, then so is Strong!

Oddawll2 · Dec 10, 2018

So, who dah rock?

I have heard these verses quoted in sermons. In every case, the speaker has implied that Jesus tells Peter something on the order of "Hey dude, when yal get down with dis gnarly world, I'm puttin' yal in charge. Yal gonna be dah rock."

When I read either the NIV or the KJV, they say the same thing. "Peter, yal dah rock."

It reminds me of the first time I went to Texas. I met a man in Albuquerque, and I asked him how to get to Texas.

He said, "Sonny, walk east until you smell something. That's Oklahoma. Then walk south until you step in it. That's Texas."

Once again, I think I have fouuund Texas.

101G · Dec 10, 2018

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Deborah_ · Dec 10, 2018

"No-one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ." (I Corinthians 3:11)

101G · Dec 10, 2018

Deborah_ said:
"No-one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ." (I Corinthians 3:11)

Amen, for he is the "ROCK"
Deut 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.
Deut 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

God is the Rock, and who did the apostle Paul say is the ROCK?
1Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

be blessed

2Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

farouk · Dec 10, 2018

Deborah_ said:
"No-one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ." (I Corinthians 3:11)

Great verse there!

Oddawll2 · Dec 10, 2018

I understand that the Bible uses the words, rock or stone, as a metaphor for God.

Seems to me, that in Matthew 16, Jesus uses the word, rock, as a metaphor for Peter.

Or maybe not.

Either way there is no disagreement in the translation of Matthew 16 between the KJV and the NIV. They both say he same thing, one way or the other.

Why can it not also be a metaphor for Peter?

justbyfaith · Dec 10, 2018

Oddawll2 said:
I understand that the Bible uses the words, rock or stone, as a metaphor for God.

Seems to me, that in Matthew 16, Jesus uses the word, rock, as a metaphor for Peter.

Or maybe not.

Either way there is no disagreement in the translation of Matthew 16 between the KJV and the NIV. They both say he same thing, one way or the other.

Why can it not also be a metaphor for Peter?

As it has been said, Jesus is the Rock (and He rolled my blues away).

101G · Dec 10, 2018

Oddawll2 said:
I understand that the Bible uses the words, rock or stone, as a metaphor for God.

Seems to me, that in Matthew 16, Jesus uses the word, rock, as a metaphor for Peter.

Or maybe not.

Either way there is no disagreement in the translation of Matthew 16 between the KJV and the NIV. They both say he same thing, one way or the other.

Why can it not also be a metaphor for Peter?

Peter can't build anything "Spiritual", for the Church is spiritual in nature.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

.

Oddawll2 · Dec 10, 2018

101G said:
Peter can't build anything "Spiritual", for the Church is spiritual in nature.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

.

In the Bible, does the word, rock, always refer to God?

Jesus!

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