Limited Atonement VS Universal Atonement

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Heb 13:8

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Jesus sees the finished product as He looks at us presently; and also, the new man is perfect; in that the limitless, infinite love of God is shed abroad in the heart of the one who is born again (Romans 5:5, Ephesians 3:19-20).

Yes :)
 

justbyfaith

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The Bible says that we are STILL SINNERS (1 Tim. 1:15, James 5:15-16, 1 John 1:8). We cannot be perfect if we STILL sin. In the CONTEXT of Scripture (I know you HATE that word) Heb. 10:10 and Heb. 10:14 are speaking to the fact that CHRIST is perfect and CHRIST made a perfect sacrifice that makes US holy.
It appears that you are guilty of what you accuse me and others here of...pitting scripture against scripture.

Hebrews 10:14 says, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And, Hebrews 10:10 says, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

2 Corinthians 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

2 Peter 1:20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
 
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justbyfaith

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Because His for ever fear is in my heart, I shall not depart (i.e. walk away) from Him...Jeremiah 32:38-40 (kjv); and I also shall not come into condemnation (be judged negatively)...John 5:24.

The Bible doesn’t say this – in CONTEXT.

The context of a scripture never nullifies the truth of the scripture that is in the context...this is a basic rule of hermeneutics.
 

justbyfaith

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NONE of us are born sinning. We are born into sin – or the proclivity towards it. This is called “concupiscence”.

concupiscence
noun

con·cu·pis·cence | \kän-ˈkyü-pə-sən(t)s, kən-\
Definition of concupiscence


: strong desire

especially : sexual desire
 
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justbyfaith

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Concerning Mary being sinless...the blood is passed down through the Father biologically to the Son...and the placentia keeps the blood of the mother from passing to the child (while it can pass from the child to the mother)...so it may be that Mary was sinless because she was a recipient of Jesus' physical blood...it remains that Mary herself was a recipient of the grace of God...and that she did not have to be sinless in order for Jesus to be without sin...because Jesus was in a pure bubble completely isolated from the blood of either Joseph or Mary...in that Joseph was not Jesus' true father, and that Mary's blood never passed to Jesus, thus never being able to infect His blood with the sin in hers, during the process of her carrying Jesus to term. So then, if Mary was sinless, it was because Jesus' blood passed to her in her carrying of Him; and in no way is Jesus' sinlessness dependent on an immaculate conception.

Of course, Jesus' blood did not transfer into Mary's bloodstream, so it is very probable that she was affected by sin just as much as any one of us...Mary was saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ...as the song goes...the babe that you delivered...will soon deliver you...Mary did you know?
 
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CoreIssue

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Concerning Mary being sinless...the blood is passed down through the Father biologically to the Son...and the placentia keeps the blood of the mother from passing to the child (while it can pass from the child to the mother)...so it may be that Mary was sinless because she was a recipient of Jesus' physical blood...it remains that Mary herself was a recipient of the grace of God...and that she did not have to be sinless in order for Jesus to be without sin...because Jesus was in a pure bubble completely isolated from the blood of either Joseph or Mary...in that Joseph was not Jesus' true father, and that Mary's blood never passed to Jesus, thus never being able to infect His blood with the sin in hers, during the process of her carrying Jesus to term. So then, if Mary was sinless, it was because Jesus' blood passed to her in her carrying of Him; and in no way is Jesus' sinlessness dependent on an immaculate conception.

Of course, Jesus' blood did not transfer into Mary's bloodstream, so it is very probable that she was affected by sin just as much as any one of us...Mary was saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ...as the song goes...the babe that you delivered...will soon deliver you...Mary did you know?

Jesus was formed from her egg without any sperm from Joseph.

So yes, Mary was blessed but that did not make her sinless.

Sin nature comes via the father.
 
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justbyfaith

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Jesus was formed from her egg without any sperm from Joseph.

So yes, Mary was blessed but that did not make her sinless.

Sin nature comes via the father.
Yes, that was the final conclusion. Because Jesus' Father was God...who also had/has no sin.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Because it was never offered to them. The blood is only for humans.

They were created perfect flesh and blood, like the angels were created perfect spirits. Then they chose to rebel.

To me, it is all part of God being able to say at the white throne judgment you are without excuse.

He created perfect spirit beings that do not die. Perfect flesh beings do not die. But many rebelled.

He created Adam and Eve, who were innocent, not knowing what sin was. They rebelled.

Now there is humanity. Not perfect but with the ability to achieve perfection. Most remain in sin.

So God created what I believe to be every alternative to show in every alternative free will means some fail and some succeed.

Cooperation in Catholicism means works for salvation.
No - cooperation with God's grace is our REPONSE to it.
That's why Paul calls us "sunergos" - CO-WORKERS with God (2 Cor. 6:1, 1Cor. 3:9).
 

justbyfaith

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No - cooperation with God's grace is our REPONSE to it.
That's why Paul calls us "sunergos" - CO-WORKERS with God (2 Cor. 6:1, 1Cor. 3:9).

Both of the scriptures that you reference above are speaking of the fact that we are working together with God to evangelize the lost, as those who are already saved. They in no way indicate that we somehow do good works in order to save ourselves...
 

BreadOfLife

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I have already shown you that this is explained by the fact that the recipients of the promises (i.e. John 5:24, John 6:47, John 10:27-30, Hebrews 13:5, Matthew 28:20) are the same people who fear the LORD enough to heed the warnings...without heeding the warnings, the promises wouldn't come into effect...because they work in our lives because we heed the warnings. In other words, people do not fall away because of and when they exhort one another daily lest any of them depart from the faith because of an evil heart of unbelief...because the body of Christ is working to keep everyone in the safe zone...i.e. we are heeding the warnings...therefore, because love never fails, we cannot help but succeed at keeping each other in the safe zone...because we are heeding the warnings and exhorting one another daily in order to keep each other in the safe zone.

Consider how context applies to Hosea 11:1...as a matter of fact, Matthew (in Matthew 2:15), under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, takes that scripture out of its original context, in which "God's son" refers to Israel...and applies it to Jesus...because in the New Testament the Holy Spirit testifies that Jesus is the Son of God.

Also, in 2 Corinthians 9:6, the immediate context speaks of financial sowing and reaping. But if you compare scripture with scripture, you can come up with the valid scriptural application (by comparing to Luke 8:11) that when the seed is the word of God, if we sow sparingly we will reap sparingly, and if we sow bountifully we will reap bountifully...I would not do without that interpretation/application for the world! My ministry is what it is today because of it.

Yet Romans 4:5-6 would teach us that the Lord imputes righteousness to us apart from works.

I reconcile it like this. I am not going to be able to obtain a transformation of character by giving $5 to the poor: or even $1,000,000 for that matter. But God will regenerate and renew me in the Holy Ghost if I simply put my faith and trust in what Jesus did for me on the Cross (see Galatians 3:14, Romans 5:5). When I find out that I am forgiven much, my response to the Lord is that I will love Him much (Luke 7:36-50, 1 John 4:19); and this will produce obedience in my life (1 John 3:18). But no amount of doing good works, if I am attempting to be acceptable to God by them and through them, will suffice in order to earn approval and acceptance before the Lord. All of my righteousnesses are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

What about when an adult, in the middle of a store, begins to cry uncontrollably and saying that he wants you to feed him milk? Or that you must give him his food for the week and you must be the one to pay for it because he is not going to...but that he is going to keep crying until you purchase for him his food? According to your understanding, he is completely blameless...

We excuse babies because they are helpless for crying when they are hungry...and we teach them that it is not acceptable to do the same as they grow older...but the driving force behind their crying for milk is sin...such a baby is not trusting in the Lord that the milk will be provided and is crying out of selfishness...as it grows older, instead of crying it might say, "Give me my food!"...selfishness and sin...not acceptable.
Once again – NONE of the verses you presented state that God will KEEP a person faithful against their will. NOR do they say that they will REMAIN faithful simply because they once had faith to Christ. The promises are for those who CHOOSE to remain faithful by trusting in the Lord and the tools He has given them.

Secondly - your analogy of a baby crying because he is “SELFISH” is the most ridiculous and asinine thing I’ve ever heard. Apparently, you don’t have children. A baby cries for milk when he is HUNGRY – and it has NOTHING t do with selfishness. Babies DON’T sin because they CAN’T sin. Therefore, Rom. 3:23 does NOT apply to them.

Finally - you are correct when you say that giving money to the poor won’t save you.
HOWEVER - giving money to the poor in Christ’s name is what faith is ALL about.
 

BreadOfLife

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Obeying God to save yourselves is no better than the Jews at the alter boy
Obeying God and doing His will is what is COMMANDED if His followers.
You can't be saved unless you cooperate with Hid grace . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Both of the scriptures that you reference above are speaking of the fact that we are working together with God to evangelize the lost, as those who are already saved. They in no way indicate that we somehow do good works in order to save ourselves...
Working WITH God is DOING His WILL.
It is ABSOLUTELY a part of our salvation (Matt. 7:21, Matt. 25:31-46, Matt. 28:19-20).
 

BreadOfLife

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It appears that you are guilty of what you accuse me and others here of...pitting scripture against scripture.

Hebrews 10:14 says, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And, Hebrews 10:10 says, By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

2 Corinthians 3:12, Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech.

2 Peter 1:20, Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Not at ALL.
I simply understand it in its proper CONTEXT.

YOU, on the other hand, cherry-pick Scripture and pit one verse against another . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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No BOL, we are saved only through belief. Knowing God vs accepting the free gift. What will you choose?

James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
WRONG.

Even the DEMONS believe and are not saved (James 2:19).
If you think you are saved by belief alone - then you are NO BETTER off than the demons.

TRUE Faith = Belief + Obedience
 

BreadOfLife

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Nope, we are being made perfect through His final sacrifice on the cross. Many won't receive it though, os they work for it
I couldn't agree with you more.
I would ALSO add that many won't receive it because they refuse to be obedient.