The Criteria of Antichrist.

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Harvest 1874

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Glad I won't be here.

Considering your age you may indeed likely miss it, but were you say 10 to 20 years younger I would say "don't count on it".

Many erroneously believe that the Church will be gone before the outbreak of the great storm coming, however the scriptures contradict this theory.

The scriptures clearly indicate that the last members of the Church, the "feet of him" represented in the type by Elijah will be taken up into heaven (i.e. experience their resurrection change) in awhirlwind” (the great time of trouble), the results of the “four winds of heaven” having been let loose. These four winds have been held in check for now until the last members of the body of Christ have made their calling and election sure.

After which time the only saints remaining (represented in the type by Elisha) will be the “tribulation saints”, the “Great Company class”, the “foolish virgins” those who covenanted with the Lord, but who felled to make their calling and election sure. As such they will have to take their share with the hypocrites, the “tares”, nominal Christians in the great time of trouble soon approaching there they will be buffeted severely by the Adversary and suffer the destruction of the flesh (that which they were reliant to give up willingly), that the spirit [the new life in them] may be saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus’ 1 Cor 5:5.

These are they which the Prophet Jeremiah speaks heard exclaiming: “The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we (the tribulation class, the foolish virgins) are not saved! (Saved to that special or high calling to which we were originally called)” Jer 8:20

The harvest has become a heap of ruins, a day of grief and desperate sorrow”, to these because of their unfaithfulness (Isa 17:11) nevertheless should they refuse to deny their Lord till the end, even in death, they may yet still “wash their robes in the blood of the lamb”, which they allowed to become contaminated through their unfaithfulness and contact with the world. They will have missed out on the great prize (the Divine nature and joint heirship with their Lord) for which they were originally called, to sit with Christ in his throne, but they will nevertheless be permitted to stand (howbeit on a much lower plane of existence) before the throne of God and to serve him in his temple in heaven.
 
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CoreIssue

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Considering your age you may indeed likely missed it, but were you say 10 to 20 years younger I would say "don't count on it".

Many erroneously believe that the Church will be gone before the outbreak of the great storm coming, however the scriptures contradict this theory.

The scriptures clearly indicate that the last members of the Church, the "feet of him" represented in the type by Elijah will be taken up into heaven (i.e. experience their resurrection change) in awhirlwind” (the great time of trouble), the results of the “four winds of heaven” having been let loose. These four winds have been held in check for now until the last members of the body of Christ have made their calling and election sure.

After which time the only saints remaining (represented in the type by Elisha) will be the “tribulation saints”, the “Great Company class”, the “foolish virgins” those who covenanted with the Lord, but who felled to make their calling and election sure. As such they will have to take their share with the hypocrites, the “tares”, nominal Christians in the great time of trouble soon approaching there they will be buffeted severely by the Adversary and suffer the destruction of the flesh (that which they were reliant to give up willingly), that the spirit [the new life in them] may be saved in the Day of the Lord Jesus’ 1 Cor 5:5.

These are they which the Prophet Jeremiah speaks heard exclaiming: “The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we (the tribulation class, the foolish virgins) are not saved! (Saved to that special or high calling to which we were originally called)” Jer 8:20

The harvest has become a heap of ruins, a day of grief and desperate sorrow”, to these because of their unfaithfulness (Isa 17:11) nevertheless should they refuse to deny their Lord till the end, even in death, they may yet still “wash their robes in the blood of the lamb”, which they allowed to become contaminated through their unfaithfulness and contact with the world. They will have missed out on the great prize (the Divine nature and joint heirship with their Lord) for which they were originally called, to sit with Christ in his throne, but they will nevertheless be permitted to stand (howbeit on a much lower plane of existence) before the throne of God and to serve him in his temple in heaven.

Trying to apply Old Testament Israel verses to the church is erroneous.

Even if I was only in my 20s I still wouldn't be here.
 

Jay Ross

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Prophecy was future from the time it was given. That doesn't mean it still is...at least not all of it. Is the conquest of Jerusalem by Babylon still future?


Thankyou for that encouragement. I have never known the majority to be right in anything regarding religious faith and practice.


It has been 2000 years since Christ, and Christians still believe He went to hell and preached to the lost while He was dead. What's 57 years to discover or learn anything? Time is nothing. Having the holy Spirit to teach you is everything.


I have never hid from anyone on this forum the fact that I am Seventh Day Adventist. There is absolutely no reason I should hide that fact nor be dishonest about it. Nothing I write isn't from an SDA perspective. Except for the trinity. But that's another topic entirely. To attempt to discredit what I am teaching here on the basis of your biases against my church I find somewhat shallow and empty.

It is not your denominational adherence that is the issue, but your insistence on posting an understanding that is not based on scripture.

If empires here on the earth are the beasts of Daniel, then why does Daniel describe the scene where the beasts are judged as being in heaven. If the beasts were earthly then they are, according to Isaiah, going to be judged on the face of the earth in battle. The same passage from Isaiah also tells us that the fallen heavenly hosts, i.e. the beasts and Satan and any of the other fallen heavenly hosts, will be judged in Heaven and as such their influence over the peoples of the earth will be removed for a period of time.

Shalom
 

CoreIssue

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It is not your denominational adherence that is the issue, but your insistence on posting an understanding that is not based on scripture.

If empires here on the earth are the beasts of Daniel, then why does Daniel describe the scene where the beasts are judged as being in heaven. If the beasts were earthly then they are, according to Isaiah, going to be judged on the face of the earth in battle. The same passage from Isaiah also tells us that the fallen heavenly hosts, i.e. the beasts and Satan and any of the other fallen heavenly hosts, will be judged in Heaven and as such their influence over the peoples of the earth will be removed for a period of time.

Shalom

Isaiah says ungodly nations will be put to the sword. Most referred to already have.

Then the dead of those nations and the fallen Angels from the war in heaven will be judged at the white throne judgment and cast into the lake of fire.

If you see a contradiction or conflict you going to have to provide more information to be looked at.
 

Jay Ross

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Isaiah says ungodly nations will be put to the sword. Most referred to already have.

Then the dead of those nations and the fallen Angels from the war in heaven will be judged at the white throne judgment and cast into the lake of fire.

If you see a contradiction or conflict you going to have to provide more information to be looked at.

Have you read and understood all of the bible? If you had of, then you would have know that what you had posted is a little bit off of the mark.
 

CoreIssue

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Have you read and understood all of the bible? If you had of, then you would have know that what you had posted is a little bit off of the mark.

57 years worth of study. Isaiah is not a simple book as you are implying.

Apparently you're not the one seeing the depth contained in it.

Learn a lesson-- do not assume when studying the Bible.
 

ScottA

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The man of sin is the man of flesh.

If needs be one man, his name is Adam (even Peter), in whom all die. This same man crucified Christ, to his own demise.

Then and now, just as Christ foretold, we fight brother against brother, and child against parent.
 
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Harvest 1874

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Trying to apply Old Testament Israel verses to the church is erroneous.

Even if I was only in my 20s I still wouldn't be here.

It is apparent that your understanding of the scriptures is a bit lacking in respects to types and antitypes, I would advise further study.
 
B

brakelite

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Ok, now stop this. I don't think it's deliberate, but you are giving false information here. The reformers were clearly historicists, yes, because they knew no better. But Irenaeus was by no means a historicist; he was so much a futurist I still marvel at how he could see as far into the future as he did. As for Jesus, every one of the passages you cite have Him referring to these events as set to take place in the future. How can you say those verses prove He was not a futurist?!
The difference between Jesus being historicist or futurist lies in His refining the disciples ability to understand the prophecy. Never once did Jesus tell them to guess as to what is coming, but several times told them to base their hopes on "what has came to pass". Sure, prophecy is about the future, but we understand what is to come by understanding what has already been fulfilled. Futurism in the modern term rejects 1500 years of history as meaningless and irrelevant. They have placed an imaginary gap between pagan Rome and the unknown future calling the future a time of a revived Roman empire. Why is that when the old empire never ceased, but simply continued in another form, as the prophecies indicated it would? So focused are they on a so called coming bogey man on the horizon they are missing entirely the real threat that is leaning over their own back fence inviting them to a barbecue.
True historicism views prophecy as a continual unfolding of history which confirms the prophecy as solidly as rock. No guesswork, just history as it took place without fanfare, clairvoyance, or made up stuff like Core Issues nonsense above in which he fails to offer one shred of Biblical evidence in support.
 
B

brakelite

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"it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet."
Have you noticed Revelation 13 where the apostle John was witnessing in vision the rise of that composite beast? That beasts has the characteristics of all those beasts you mentioned from Daniel 7 right? Daniel however was writing and living in the time of the first beast, and looking forward. John was writing and living in the time of the 4th beast, Rome, and looking backward. That fourth beast can be none other than Pagan Rome, and yes, as you say, they were all predators. They rose from the sea amid winds of strife. The sea represents peoples, nations, tongues. Winds represent war and political turmoil. A very apt phraseology when considering the history of those empires. Rome divided, and 11 major powers rose up from the crazy mess Rome left behind. One of those powers however was different from the other ten, and those pieces of history which futurists seem to want to ignore because it doesn't suit their hermeneutic, are what I am tackling in this thread. Pagan Rome did indeed devoured everything it conquered and stamped it under its feet. The Iron Monarchy of Rome wasn't a title granted it in vain.
 

CoreIssue

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Of course we look to the future through the lens of the past. The past is experience and knowledge of where we been to give us a basis for where we are going.

History was used as proof from God about who Jesus was, his ministry, his death, resurrection and the future rapture, the second coming and a whole lot more.

That does not qualify as historicism. Historicism says it was all accomplished in the past, already a done deal.

Your presentation is actually dishonest and an effort to defend your SDA doctrines, which it does not.

Fact is the Bible does give us such as a statue of Daniel. Historically as prophecy, then history and then prophecy of the future.
 

Hidden In Him

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They have placed an imaginary gap between pagan Rome and the unknown future calling the future a time of a revived Roman empire. Why is that when the old empire never ceased, but simply continued in another form, as the prophecies indicated it would?

Well not quite. I realize there are some (like CoreIssue) who still hold to the idea of the Roman Empire as being in some sense the fourth beast of Daniel. I do not. I regard the Roman Empire as in no way a fulfillment; it only appeared to be a fulfillment to the New Testament writers at the time, making them think Christ's return and the end of the age was at hand when in fact it wasn't. I do believe there will be parallels between what was happening in NT times and what will happen when the true fulfillment comes, but I do not regard Rome as having ever had any other role to play than Chapters 17 & 18 of Revelation. She is not the beast and never has been. She will, however, become the whore.
No guesswork, just history as it took place without fanfare, clairvoyance

Your persistent use of the word "clairvoyance" is a tad on the insulting side, LoL. You make it sound as if anyone who doesn't agree with the historicist interpretation of scripture is some kind of necromancer or something... shades of the wonderful impression BookEnds use to make on people, LoL.
 
B

brakelite

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I see no-one has thus far been willing to actually take me to task ob criteria number one, so I shall continue.
Criteria 2.
The little horn arises among the ten horns.
The ten horns are the divisions of western Europe, so the little horn must arise in western Europe (Daniel 7:8). Notice that these first two characteristics restrict the geographical location of the little horn to western Europe.

That the little horn was to rise up among ten future kings was understood by the early church fathers. They saw and understood that what Paul meant when he said….

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

….Was the Roman power. They understood that when the Roman power was taken out of the way, the antichrist would appear among the ten kings, and would subdue 3 of them.

First, let us read what the well known Catholic historian Cardinal Manning had to say:
“Now the abandonment of Rome was the liberation of the pontiffs. Whatsoever claims to obedience the emperors may have made, and whatsoever compliance the Pontiff may have yielded, the whole previous relation, anomalous, and annulled again and again by the vices and outrages of the emperors, was finally dissolved by a higher power. The providence of God permitted a succession of irruptions, Gothic, Lombard, and Hungarian, to desolate Italy, and to efface from it every remnant of the empire The pontiffs found themselves alone, the sole fountains of order, peace, law, and safety. And from the hour of this providential liberation, when, by a divine intervention, the chains fell off from the hands of the successor of St. Peter, as once before from his own, no sovereign has ever reigned in Rome except the Vicar of Jesus Christ.”
(Henry Edward Manning, The Temporal Power of The Vicar of Jesus Christ, Preface, pp. xxviii, xxix. London: Burns and Lambert, 1862).

According to Manning, there was a restraint that inhibited the Bishops of Rome from exercising full authority as the temporal and spiritual leaders they believed was their destiny. That restraint was the pagan Roman power.
Now let us see what some of the early church fathers believed would take place soon according to their understanding of the prophecies.

Tertullian 160-240AD
“‘For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way.’ What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? ‘And then shall be revealed the wicked one.”
“On the Resurrection of the Flesh,” chapter 24; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. III, p. 563

“The very end of all things threatening dreadful woes is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman Empire.”
(“Apology,” chapter 32; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III, p. 43).

Lactantius (early fourth century):

“The subject itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place; except that while the city of Rome remains, it appears that nothing of this kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen, and shall have begun to be a street, which the Sibyls say shall come to pass, who can doubt that the end has now arrived to the affairs of men and the whole world? It is that city, that only, which still sustains all things.”
(“The Divine Institutes,” book 7, chapter 25; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 220).

Cyril of Jerusalem (318-386 A. D.):

“But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after those an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, ‘three he shall humble,’ and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself.”
(Catechetical Lectures,” section 15, on II Thessalonians 2:4; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 108

Ambrose (died in 398):

“After the falling or decay of the Roman Empire, Antichrist shall appear.”
(Quoted in, Bishop Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the Prophecies, p. 463)

Chrysostom (died in 407):

“When the Roman Empire is taken out of the way, then he [the Antichrist] shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God.”
“Homily IV on 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9,” Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. XIII, p. 389

So after the restraint of Rome was removed, first ten kings arose from within, and the empire was divided between them.

From the historian Barnes we read the following very interesting remark regarding other historians.

“Even the Romanists themselves admit that the Roman Empire was, by means of the incursions of the northern nations, dismembered into ten kingdoms (Calmet on Revelation 13:1; and he refers likewise to Berangaud, Bossuet, and DuPin. See Newton, p. 209); and Machiavelli (‘History of Florence,’ 1.i) with no design of furnishing an illustration of this prophecy, and probably with no recollection of it, has mentioned these names: 1. The Ostrogoths in Moesia; 2. The Visigoths in Pannonia; 3. The Sueves and Alans in Gascoign and Spain; 4. The Vandals in Africa; 5. The Franks in France; 6. The Burgundians in Burgundy; 7. The Heruli and Turingi in Italy; 8. The Saxons and Angles in Britain; 9. The Huns in Hungary; 10. The Lombards at first upon the Danube, afterwards in Italy.”
(Albert Barnes, Notes on the Book of Daniel, p. 322.)

“Antichrist, then (as the Fathers delight to call him), or the little horn, is to be sought among the ten kingdoms of the western Roman Empire. I say of the western Roman Empire, because that was properly the body of the fourth beast; Greece, and the countries which lay eastward of Italy belonged to the third beast; for the former beasts were still subsisting, though their dominion was taken away.
‘As concerning the rest of the beasts,’ saith Daniel, ‘they had their dominion taken away; yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.’ Daniel 7:12.
‘And therefore,’ as Sir Isaac Newton rightly infers, ‘all four beasts are still alive, though the dominion of the three first be taken away. The nations of Chaldea and Assyria are still the first beast. Those of Media and Persia are still the second beast. Those of Macedon, Greece and Thrace, Asia Minor, Syria, and Egypt, are still the third. And those of Europe, on this side of Greece, are still the fourth. Seeing therefore the body of the third beast is confined to the nations on this side the river Euphrates, and the body of the fourth beast is confined to the nations on this side of Greece; we are to look for all the four heads of the third beast among the nations on this side the river Euphrates; and for all the eleven horns of the fourth beast, among the nations on this side of Greece.”
(Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the Prophecies, pp. 239, 240).

The above quote is also very pertinent to Revelation 13 and the beast that arises from the sea having all the composite parts of the beasts of Daniel. All four beasts are still alive in composite form of the Revelation beast, the antichrist. Notice also the steady progression in a westerly direction of each power. First Babylon, then Media/Persia, then Greece, then Rome and Europe. In Revelation 13 the beast of the sea being composite of all these, is followed by a new beast that rises from out of the earth. There are many who believe this power that rises chronologically after the European composite, is that power which lies further westward, namely America. But that subject is for another day.
 
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Hidden In Him

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Have you noticed Revelation 13 where the apostle John was witnessing in vision the rise of that composite beast? That beasts has the characteristics of all those beasts you mentioned from Daniel 7 right? Daniel however was writing and living in the time of the first beast, and looking forward. John was writing and living in the time of the 4th beast, Rome, and looking backward. That fourth beast can be none other than Pagan Rome, and yes, as you say, they were all predators. They rose from the sea amid winds of strife. The sea represents peoples, nations, tongues. Winds represent war and political turmoil. A very apt phraseology when considering the history of those empires. Rome divided, and 11 major powers rose up from the crazy mess Rome left behind. One of those powers however was different from the other ten, and those pieces of history which futurists seem to want to ignore because it doesn't suit their hermeneutic, are what I am tackling in this thread. Pagan Rome did indeed devoured everything it conquered and stamped it under its feet. The Iron Monarchy of Rome wasn't a title granted it in vain.

:) I suppose everyone's allowed, but I think that was a dodge. I know you hold to this view, but it transforms the fourth beast into a spiritual destroyer and devourer when all the beasts before it were unquestionably military powers in no uncertain terms. I find it much more consistent to look for another military power, and not just any military power but the most powerful and destructive one the earth has ever seen or ever will.
 

CoreIssue

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Well not quite. I realize there are some (like CoreIssue) who still hold to the idea of the Roman Empire as being in some sense the fourth beast of Daniel. I do not. I regard the Roman Empire as in no way a fulfillment; it only appeared to be a fulfillment to the New Testament writers at the time, making them think Christ's return and the end of the age was at hand when in fact it wasn't. I do believe there will be parallels between what was happening in NT times and what will happen when the true fulfillment comes, but I do not regard Rome as having ever had any other role to play than Chapters 17 & 18 of Revelation. She is not the beast and never has been. She will, however, become the whore.

It is history that the Roman Empire split into two and continue to break down to 10.

Coincidence that it lines up 100% with prophecy?

So who do you think the fourth beast is?
 
B

brakelite

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Of course we look to the future through the lens of the past. The past is experience and knowledge of where we been to give us a basis for where we are going.

History was used as proof from God about who Jesus was, his ministry, his death, resurrection and the future rapture, the second coming and a whole lot more.

That does not qualify as historicism. Historicism says it was all accomplished in the past, already a done deal.

Your presentation is actually dishonest and an effort to defend your SDA doctrines, which it does not.

Fact is the Bible does give us such as a statue of Daniel. Historically as prophecy, then history and then prophecy of the future.
I sense that you do not fully understand what historicism actually is...you are confusing it with preterism.
Were Seventh Day Adventists the first to use the historicist hermeneutinc to understand prophecy? Did they invent this approach to sustain certain prophetic interpretations that popular theology rejected? No. Most commentators right from the early church recognised the 7 churches of Revelation 2 and 3 as successive phases of Christianity from the time of John to the consummation of all things.
The 7 seals also were recognised as reflecting successive phases of Christianity from John to the second coming. For example, Ambrose, Bishop of Havilburg writing in the 12 century said, “The white horse typifies the earliest state of spiritual gifts and the rider, Christ, with the bow of evangelical doctrine…the red horse is the next state of the church, red with the blood of martyrdom; from Stephen the protomartyr to the martyrs under Diocletian…the black horse depicts the church’s 3rd state, blackened after Constantine’s time with heresies…the pale horse signified the church’s 4th state; coloured with the hue of hypocrisy.” He said this state commenced from the beginning of the 5th century. This historicist view of the seals was the usual view of expositors down through the centuries.

The trumpets also were considered an historical overview of the rise and fall of secular kingdoms from the time of Christ to the future second advent. Scholars such as Daubuz, Mede, Jurieu, along with most all reformation protestants saw the trumpets 1-6 as depicting the desolations and fall of first the western empire of Rome and then the eastern. In 1802 Gulloway, in harmony with many others, viewed the first 4 trumpets as a picture of the Gothic invasions of the west, the 5th and 6th trumpets or the first 2 of the 3 ‘woes’, as depicting the invasions of the Saracens and the Turks in the east.

The prophecies of Daniel can be readily understood by using the historicist approach. Futurism and preterism both leave many unanswered questions, many unfulfilled details, and tend to make prophetic interpretation look more like guesswork and wishful thinking rather than the accurate study and strengthening of faith that it can be.
The image of Daniel 2 sets the foundation for every subsequent vision and prophecy from Daniel to Revelation. What God has set down as His word in Daniel 2 cannot be altered to suit one’s false theories when it comes to studying Revelation. All subsequent prophecies are to be studied on the principle of ‘repeat and enlarge’. That is, once Daniel 2 is understood, any further consideration of later visions must be based on Daniel 2, only with the addition of further detail. Daniel 2 sets the scene, everything else must fit into what Daniel 2 has laid down as the bottom line. For example, there is no gap between the legs of iron (Pagan Rome) and the iron/clay mix of the feet. The feet are not to be amputated in order to fit the futurist perspective of the future. History is an unbroken progression...prophecy predicted it as an unbroken progression...to place gaps and discard 1500 to 2000 years of history because its inconvenient in effect hides the true Antichrist from view as we shall see as we progress in this study.
 

Enoch111

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Futurism in the modern term rejects 1500 years of history as meaningless and irrelevant.
Not at all. If you are referring to 1500 years of Christianity under Rome, it simply means that the Gospel was not really preached during that time. Sacerdotalism and Sacramentalism took over ( as well as superstitious nonsense). Therefore the Reformation (preceded by the Renaissance) was a divine necessity.

But while the Reformers got back to Gospel truth (more or less), they allowed their thinking about eschatology to be governed by Rome and Amillennialism.

Here is an example from the great Reformed Matthew Henry, who interpreted Rom 11:26 as though it was fulfilled at the first coming of Christ, even though Paul makes it perfectly clear that it applies to the Second Coming:

'He quotes a very remarkable one, v. 26, from Isa. 59:20, Isa. 59:21 . Where we may observe, [1.] The coming of Christ promised: There shall come out of Zion the deliverer. Jesus Christ is the great deliverer, which supposes mankind in a state of misery and danger. In Isaiah it is, the Redeemer shall come to Zion.There he is called the Redeemer; here the deliverer; he delivers in a way of redemption, by a price. There he is said to come to Zion, because when the prophet prophesied he was yet to come into the world, and Zion was his first head-quarters. Thither he came, there he took up his residence: but, when the apostle wrote this, he had come, he had been in Zion...' [PAST TENSE]
 
B

brakelite

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:) I suppose everyone's allowed, but I think that was a dodge. I know you hold to this view, but it transforms the fourth beast into a spiritual destroyer and devourer when all the beasts before it were unquestionably military powers in no uncertain terms. I find it much more consistent to look for another military power, and not just any military power but the most powerful and destructive one the earth has ever seen or ever will.
No not at all. The fourth beast was pagan Rome. Military to its very core. It is the little horn that is a combination of church and state, yet still Roman. The RCC is just that. A church/state union which incorporated many pagan institutions into its belief system inherited from not just Rome, but also Greece, Media/Persia, and Babylon, as most of us are fully aware and readily admit yes? That is why the composite beast of Revelation 13 1-3 is such an accurate picture of the Catholic church/Antichrist beast. A composite of all that has gone before it and from which she inherited much of who she is. And many of the attributes that belong to the little horn, are repeated as belonging to the first beast of Revelation 13, which is why most scholars say they are one and the same.
 

CoreIssue

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I see no-one has thus far been willing to actually take me to task ob criteria number one, so I shall continue.
Criteria 2.
The little horn arises among the ten horns.
The ten horns are the divisions of western Europe, so the little horn must arise in western Europe (Daniel 7:8). Notice that these first two characteristics restrict the geographical location of the little horn to western Europe.

That the little horn was to rise up among ten future kings was understood by the early church fathers. They saw and understood that what Paul meant when he said….

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

….Was the Roman power. They understood that when the Roman power was taken out of the way, the antichrist would appear among the ten kings, and would subdue 3 of them.

First, let us read what the well known Catholic historian Cardinal Manning had to say:
“Now the abandonment of Rome was the liberation of the pontiffs. Whatsoever claims to obedience the emperors may have made, and whatsoever compliance the Pontiff may have yielded, the whole previous relation, anomalous, and annulled again and again by the vices and outrages of the emperors, was finally dissolved by a higher power. The providence of God permitted a succession of irruptions, Gothic, Lombard, and Hungarian, to desolate Italy, and to efface from it every remnant of the empire The pontiffs found themselves alone, the sole fountains of order, peace, law, and safety. And from the hour of this providential liberation, when, by a divine intervention, the chains fell off from the hands of the successor of St. Peter, as once before from his own, no sovereign has ever reigned in Rome except the Vicar of Jesus Christ.”
(Henry Edward Manning, The Temporal Power of The Vicar of Jesus Christ, Preface, pp. xxviii, xxix. London: Burns and Lambert, 1862).

According to Manning, there was a restraint that inhibited the Bishops of Rome from exercising full authority as the temporal and spiritual leaders they believed was their destiny. That restraint was the pagan Roman power.
Now let us see what some of the early church fathers believed would take place soon according to their understanding of the prophecies.

Tertullian 160-240AD
“‘For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now hinders must hinder, until he be taken out of the way.’ What obstacle is there but the Roman state, the falling away of which, by being scattered into ten kingdoms, shall introduce Antichrist upon (its own ruins)? ‘And then shall be revealed the wicked one.”
“On the Resurrection of the Flesh,” chapter 24; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. III, p. 563

“The very end of all things threatening dreadful woes is only retarded by the continued existence of the Roman Empire.”
(“Apology,” chapter 32; Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. III, p. 43).

Lactantius (early fourth century):

“The subject itself declares that the fall and ruin of the world will shortly take place; except that while the city of Rome remains, it appears that nothing of this kind is to be feared. But when that capital of the world shall have fallen, and shall have begun to be a street, which the Sibyls say shall come to pass, who can doubt that the end has now arrived to the affairs of men and the whole world? It is that city, that only, which still sustains all things.”
(“The Divine Institutes,” book 7, chapter 25; Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 220).

Cyril of Jerusalem (318-386 A. D.):

“But this aforesaid Antichrist is to come when the times of the Roman Empire shall have been fulfilled, and the end of the world is drawing near. There shall rise up together ten kings of the Romans, reigning in different parts perhaps, but all about the same time; and after those an eleventh, the Antichrist, who by his magical craft shall seize upon the Roman power; and of the kings who reigned before him, ‘three he shall humble,’ and the remaining seven he shall keep in subjection to himself.”
(Catechetical Lectures,” section 15, on II Thessalonians 2:4; Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. VII, p. 108

Ambrose (died in 398):

“After the falling or decay of the Roman Empire, Antichrist shall appear.”
(Quoted in, Bishop Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the Prophecies, p. 463)

Chrysostom (died in 407):

“When the Roman Empire is taken out of the way, then he [the Antichrist] shall come. And naturally. For as long as the fear of this empire lasts, no one will willingly exalt himself, but when that is dissolved, he will attack the anarchy, and endeavor to seize upon the government both of man and of God.”
“Homily IV on 2 Thessalonians 2:6-9,” Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, vol. XIII, p. 389

So after the restraint of Rome was removed, first ten kings arose from within, and the empire was divided between them.

From the historian Barnes we read the following very interesting remark regarding other historians.

“Even the Romanists themselves admit that the Roman Empire was, by means of the incursions of the northern nations, dismembered into ten kingdoms (Calmet on Revelation 13:1; and he refers likewise to Berangaud, Bossuet, and DuPin. See Newton, p. 209); and Machiavelli (‘History of Florence,’ 1.i) with no design of furnishing an illustration of this prophecy, and probably with no recollection of it, has mentioned these names: 1. The Ostrogoths in Moesia; 2. The Visigoths in Pannonia; 3. The Sueves and Alans in Gascoign and Spain; 4. The Vandals in Africa; 5. The Franks in France; 6. The Burgundians in Burgundy; 7. The Heruli and Turingi in Italy; 8. The Saxons and Angles in Britain; 9. The Huns in Hungary; 10. The Lombards at first upon the Danube, afterwards in Italy.”
(Albert Barnes, Notes on the Book of Daniel, p. 322.)

“Antichrist, then (as the Fathers delight to call him), or the little horn, is to be sought among the ten kingdoms of the western Roman Empire. I say of the western Roman Empire, because that was properly the body of the fourth beast; Greece, and the countries which lay eastward of Italy belonged to the third beast; for the former beasts were still subsisting, though their dominion was taken away.
‘As concerning the rest of the beasts,’ saith Daniel, ‘they had their dominion taken away; yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.’ Daniel 7:12.
‘And therefore,’ as Sir Isaac Newton rightly infers, ‘all four beasts are still alive, though the dominion of the three first be taken away. The nations of Chaldea and Assyria are still the first beast. Those of Media and Persia are still the second beast. Those of Macedon, Greece and Thrace, Asia Minor, Syria, and Egypt, are still the third. And those of Europe, on this side of Greece, are still the fourth. Seeing therefore the body of the third beast is confined to the nations on this side the river Euphrates, and the body of the fourth beast is confined to the nations on this side of Greece; we are to look for all the four heads of the third beast among the nations on this side the river Euphrates; and for all the eleven horns of the fourth beast, among the nations on this side of Greece.”
(Thomas Newton, Dissertations on the Prophecies, pp. 239, 240).

The above quote is also very pertinent to Revelation 13 and the beast that arises from the sea having all the composite parts of the beasts of Daniel. All four beasts are still alive in composite form of the Revelation beast, the antichrist. Notice also the steady progression in a westerly direction of each power. First Babylon, then Media/Persia, then Greece, then Rome and Europe. In Revelation 13 the beast of the sea being composite of all these, is followed by a new beast that rises from out of the earth. There are many who believe this power that rises chronologically after the European composite, is that power which lies further westward, namely America. But that subject is for another day.

Actually I took you to task.

The little horn came out of the third beast, Greece.

Greece is the head fatally wounded that is restored. Alexander the great ruled Greece but he will not be resurrected. It will be the demon that was in him entering the AC.

Parallel the description of the AC and Alexander the great. Bingo! They match.

Lay a map of what the Roman Empire 10 toes it broke down into over the EU. Bingo! They match.

The AC will merge the EU into his empire, just as Alexander the great merge the city states of Greece into his empire.

I do believe the youth yet USA is a prophecy. It is the Western island that will stop the advance of the AC when he first invades Middle East and pushing back, where he will turn and invade Israel.

No other country will have the military ability to intervene against him.

The four beasts are in the statue of Daniel which is called mystery Babylon.

The composite beast beast of revelations which the harlot sits on is also called mystery Babylon.

Mystery Babylon is not the AC.