Soul Sleep?

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Hidden In Him

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Babylon falls prior to the lake of fire Hidden

On this much we agree. I say we let it rest, and revel in some peace on earth!

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Heb 13:8

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On this much we agree. I say we let it rest, and revel in some peace on earth!

yes, and future Babylon will one day cease to exist and all the people in it, .... forever. the smoke of their torment will not go up forever and ever,, eternal fire is not eternal. mortality, death, extinction is what's eternal. do you get it now? is it clicking?

2Pe 2:6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Rev 11:14 And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
 

Hidden In Him

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yes, and future Babylon will one day cease to exist and all the people in it, .... forever. the smoke of their torment will not go up forever and ever,, eternal fire is not eternal. mortality, death, extinction is what's eternal. do you get it now? is it clicking?

Despite not having much respect for your position, I was doing my best to be cordial, answer your posts, and leave the conversation peaceably when it was clear we wouldn't be coming to a meeting of the minds any time soon. You have now decided to insinuate that somehow I haven't been bright enough to "comprehend" you.

I maintain conversations with people who can disagree with my positions but still manifest the Spirit of God by having the class to treat me with respect the way I treat them.

Unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case here.
 

Hidden In Him

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Found something posted on another forum that I thought was interesting:

The Early Church Fathers on
Hell


The Early Fathers believed in a literal hell. A place where unrepentant sinners would spend their eternity separated from God. A place where all hope would be abandoned and where misery and suffering would be a constant companion. The idea that the Bibles torturous descriptions of hell were somehow symbolic of non-existence, as Jehovah’s Witnesses claim, was something that would have been totally foreign to them. To the Fathers, if Jesus said that something was eternal and torturous, (Matthew 25:46, Luke 16:24) then that is what it was. Rather than water down Jesus words they instead chose to use them to warn the faithful as Jesus Himself did.


Ignatius of Antioch

Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death, how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire, and so will anyone who listens to him (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2 [A.D. 110]).


Clement of Rome

If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment (Second Clement 5:5 [A.D. 150]).


Justin Martyr

No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments (First Apology 12 [A.D. 151]).

[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons (ibid. 52).


The Martyrdom of Polycarp

Fixing their minds on the grace of Christ, [the martyrs] despised worldly tortures and purchased eternal life with but a single hour. To them, the fire of their cruel torturers was cold. They kept before their eyes their escape from the eternal and unquenchable fire (Martyrdom of Polycarp2:3 [A.D. 155]).


Athenagoras

We [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one. . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated (Plea for the Christians 31 [A.D. 177]).


Theophilus of Antioch

Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.... [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortally by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things. . . , For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181]).


Irenaeus

The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming. . . . It is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, "Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire," they will be damned forever (Against Heresies 4:28:2 [A.D. 189]).


Hippolytus

Standing before [Christ's] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: "Just is your judgment!" And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them (Against the Greeks3 [A.D. 212]).


Minucius Felix

I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them (Octavius 34:12-5:3 [A.D. 226]).


Cyprian of Carthage

An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will there be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life (To Demetrian 24 [A.D. 252]).


Lactantius

We therefore speak better and more truly, who say that the two ways belong to heaven and hell, because immortality is promised to the righteous, and everlasting punishment is threatened to the unrighteous (Divine Institutes 6 [A.D. 307]).


Cyril of Jerusalem

We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike; For if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past (Catechetical Lectures18:19 [A.D. 350]).


John Chrysostom

This is no small subject of enquiry which we propose, but rather about things which are of the first necessity and which all men enquire about; namely, whether hell fire have any end. For that it hath no end Christ indeed declared when he said, "Their fire shall not be quenched, and their worm shall not die” (Homily 9 on 1 Corinthians 3:12-15[circa A.D. 388]).
 

Joseph77

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"The Bible is Infallible" AMEN!
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QUOTE=
"Heb 13:8, post: 479029, member: 7302"]Hades is the grave where believers and non believers rest in death until resurrection day (the Bema and the Great White Throne). Hell on the other hand is another word for the lake of fire where final judgment occurs.

I agree with LuftWaffle... Annihilationism vs. Traditionalism.

Enoch and Elijah are the rare item, the story without all the answers.

Always remember, where there is a contradiction there is no truth. One might ask themselves why Job, Solomon and Paul contradicts Enoch and Elijah's story. The contradiction especially would be with Paul. Did Paul lie when he said we are not clothed in immortality until rapture and first resurrection (1 Cor 15, 1 Thess 4).

The Bible is infallible, so whatever the reason God had for Enoch and Elijah He had it done specifically to them and not the rest of humanity. Maybe God wanted the OT saints to know there is indeed life after death, in order to increase their faith (a lesson in faith).

Gen 5:24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.

Heb 11:5-6 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: “He could not be found, because God had taken him away.” For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

When the Bible is silent on certain matters, the next thing to look towards are contradictions. If you can't find the truth in contradictions then you pray about it, give it to the Father in prayer.[/QUOTE
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COOL!
 

Joseph77

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Why ?

It seems your mind is already made up.

The Previous post just now quoted above this one, is likely the best,

and it looked like you didn't want it. (from a too-fast perusal of posts..... not vetted yet) .....

Likewise, just now, looking at another long post , you took some liberties accepting what long past ... people thought and wrote, contrary to Scripture it seems.... again - just a fast look-through.... not certain of anything yet....

For now I'd like to see what other responses I get first.