Rapture and End Time Beliefs

rockytopva · Dec 25, 2018

Mayflower said:
I didn't think about it like this!!!! Great way to explain what I believe and why. Thanks!!!

I would add:

5. When the Holy Spirit leaves
6.He'll take those who believe

If you think about it God did not call us to be pre- mid- or post- trib. He called us to be ready for him to come as a thief, at any time, or at any moment. Scripturally Christ could come pre- mid- or post- trib. But it is not God's will for us to know the timing of things, as Christ said...

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. - Acts 1

Keraz · Dec 26, 2018

‘THE RAPTURE’ - SATAN’S PLAN OF DECEPTION WITHIN TODAY’S CHURCH
Such is the hold that rapture theory has in the Pentecostal and Charismatic streams of today’s church. Not only has Satan infiltrated the church with this unbiblical concept but, in typical fashion, Satan has also brought division within it! Referring to the arguments of timing, between ‘pre-tribulation’, ‘mid-tribulation’ and ‘post-tribulation’ believers that have split denominations, churches and believers alike.

HISTORY OF RAPTURE THEORY
There is a lot written about the origin and history of rapture theory. ‘The Rapture’ is an appealing concept for Christians as it removes believers from the generally accepted, likely 7 year ‘Tribulation’ that will pervade the world and the church prior to the return of Jesus. From here there is little agreement, and the church has been wracked with division on the form it will take, including a rapture or not, and when it will occur.

Today´s church wants to be raptured from responsibility."
-Leonard Ravenhill

I understand that many reading this will likely have embraced this false teaching. Some will argue that it is implied in Scripture and will not be open to considering anything different. But the reality is, the momentum for rapture teaching arose primarily out of the dream of a 15 year old girl in Scotland.
Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” declares the Lord. “They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least,” declares the Lord. (Jeremiah 23:32)

Others dreams of modern times too, have resulted in false doctrines, such as Joseph Smith (Mormonism), John Wilson (British Realism), Ellen G.White (Some Seventh Day Adventist teachings) and many more. While dreams can be revelatory, they must be in line with Scripture. That applies not only to dreams but to prophecy and teaching as well.

Prophets are subject to confirmation.....
31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. (! Corinthians 14:31-2)

19Do not quench the Spirit. 20Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22reject every kind of evil. (1 Thessalonians 519-22)

Teachers will be judged most severely for false teachings as well.....
[ Taming the Tongue ] Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. (James 3:1)

I put Leonard Ravenhill's quotation at the beginning because my conclusion for the popularity of rapture theory is that the church and Christians are looking for an easy way out. Persecution is a forgotten word in our materialistic, soft Western society, in particular. However persecution was the norm for Jesus, culminating in His crucifixion - and for the disciples and believers of the day.

Walking with Jesus is not meant to be easy.....
22 strengthening the disciples and encouraging them to remain true to the faith. “We must go through many hardships to enter the kingdom of God,” they said. (Acts 14:22)

Jesus summed up end times in Matthew.....
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. (Matthew 24:9-14)

Personal sacrifice is required.....
29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first. (Mark 10:29-31)

We are strengthened through persecution.....
9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Corinthians 12:9-10)

Rapture teaching runs contrary to the very foundation of Scripture. As the righteous were persecuted in both the Old and New Testaments, why should we be exempt now?

Paul explains the return of Jesus simply and clearly.....
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18)

MAY WE NOT BE DECEIVED FROM BIBLE TRUTH BY THE SEDUCTIVE, FALSE, DIVISIVE TEACHING ABOUT THE RAPTURE.

Stranger · Dec 26, 2018

Keraz said:
Another verse that in no way proves a 'rapture to heaven'.
Luke 21:35 says; the Day of trial will come upon everyone, the whole world over. So people are not removed, but protected, as we are told in many prophesies and shown in the story of the 3 men in the furnace.

(Rev. 3:10) proves that God will keep the Church from the hour of trial which will come upon the whole world. They are not kept through the hour of trial. They are kept from the hour of trial.

Enoch was kept from the hour of trial when the flood came. Noah and his family were kept through the hour of trial when the flood came.

The Day of trial equals the Day of the Lord which equals the Tribulation.

Stranger

CoreIssue · Dec 26, 2018

Keraz said:
Another verse that in no way proves a 'rapture to heaven'.
Luke 21:35 says; the Day of trial will come upon everyone, the whole world over. So people are not removed, but protected, as we are told in many prophesies and shown in the story of the 3 men in the furnace.

rockytopva said:
If you think about it God did not call us to be pre- mid- or post- trib. He called us to be ready for him to come as a thief, at any time, or at any moment. Scripturally Christ could come pre- mid- or post- trib. But it is not God's will for us to know the timing of things, as Christ said...

6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. - Acts 1

But from what you're pushing people will not have a clue what in the of it means.

Stranger said:
(Rev. 3:10) proves that God will keep the Church from the hour of trial which will come upon the whole world. They are not kept through the hour of trial. They are kept from the hour of trial.

Enoch was kept from the hour of trial when the flood came. Noah and his family were kept through the hour of trial when the flood came.

The Day of trial equals the Day of the Lord which equals the Tribulation.

Stranger

I agree with everything you said except your last sentence. The day of the Lord starts at the rapture and concludes at the destruction of the heavens and earth.

Keraz · Dec 26, 2018

Keraz said:
Rapture teaching runs contrary to the very foundation of Scripture. As the righteous were persecuted in both the Old and New Testaments, why should we be exempt now?

So; WHY?

CoreIssue · Dec 26, 2018

Keraz said:
So; WHY?

We are not exempt now, but will be when God decides it is time to in the church age,Time of the Gentiles, at the rapture.

Stranger · Dec 26, 2018

Keraz said:
So; WHY?

You are such a brave soul. You establish a reason for your own question and answer. Funny how you like to answer your own questions but can't answer other's.

What a fake.

Stranger

Stranger · Dec 26, 2018

CoreIssue said:
But from what you're pushing people will not have a clue what in the of it means.

I agree with everything you said except your last sentence. The day of the Lord starts at the rapture and concludes at the destruction of the heavens and earth.

And?

Stranger

Keraz · Dec 27, 2018

CoreIssue said:
We are not exempt now, but will be when God decides it is time to in the church age,Time of the Gentiles, at the rapture.

You are dreaming.
The Bible is clear; there will be martyrs right up to the Day Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:7
There is no scripture that says the Church as it is now, will be raptured. And very few, if any people will convert during the time of the 'beasts' world control. If they do, they will be killed Revelation 13:15

CoreIssue · Dec 27, 2018

Keraz said:
You are dreaming.
The Bible is clear; there will be martyrs right up to the Day Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:7
There is no scripture that says the Church as it is now, will be raptured. And very few, if any people will convert during the time of the 'beasts' world control. If they do, they will be killed Revelation 13:15

The church is rapture before Revelation 13.

You are talking trib Saints.

Keraz · Dec 27, 2018

CoreIssue said:
The church is rapture before Revelation 13.

You are talking trib Saints.

You have yet to provide any scriptural proof of a 'rapture to heaven'. That idea is a crock and will never happen.

Where does the Bible say there will be converts during the GT?
Revelation 13:3b-4 says the whole world will worship the 'beast'.

CoreIssue · Dec 27, 2018

Keraz said:
You have yet to provide any scriptural proof of a 'rapture to heaven'. That idea is a crock and will never happen.

Where does the Bible say there will be converts during the GT?
Revelation 13:3b-4 says the whole world will worship the 'beast'.

You are like the atheists that say God does not exist in Jesus Christ never lived. You believe what you want to believe in spite of the evidence.

Keraz · Dec 27, 2018

CoreIssue said:
You are like the atheists that say God does not exist in Jesus Christ never lived. You believe what you want to believe in spite of the evidence.

As there is zero evidence in the Bible for a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, I sure don't want to believe it!

CoreIssue · Dec 27, 2018

Keraz said:
As there is zero evidence in the Bible for a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, I sure don't want to believe it!

You make demands, good answers from people, and then make the same demands again.

Time for me to get off this merry-go-round.

Keraz · Dec 27, 2018

CoreIssue said:
You make demands, good answers from people, and then make the same demands again.

Time for me to get off this merry-go-round.

I have yet to see any 'good answers' from a 'rapture to heaven' believer. That belief is built on assumptions, conjecture, fabrication and sheer guesswork.
Getting off, means you have conceded defeat and the truth of God's Plans for His people, as I promote, is correct.
Just to make sure everyone know what God does Plan, here is the sequence of events:

Soon to happen: The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, a CME sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26-28 & 30, Malachi 4:1 & 3 It will be the Sixth seal event of cosmic and worldwide effects and the Middle East will be virtually depopulated, cleared and cleansed, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18 It will be the fulfilment of Psalms 83, Isaiah 2:12-21, 2 Peter 3:7 and Revelation 6:12-17 A small Messianic Jewish remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:11-13 Many people will die around the world: Isaiah 51:6, Jeremiah 9:22, but most will survive and eventually re-establish the infrastructure.

The Seventh seal is ‘about’ a 20 year time gap from the Lord's Day of wrath, until the Return of Jesus.

In a short while: Isaiah 29:17, all the holy Land will be regenerated and the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, be they true descendants of Jacob or grafted in, all born again believers; will gather in the new country of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10 They will live in peace and prosperity and 144,000 missionaries are selected from them, to go out to all peoples and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 7 & 14, Isaiah 66:19

The rest of the nations will form a One World Government, led by ten Presidents. Daniel 7:24, Revelation 17:12 Before long, three will be taken over and the other seven will confer their power onto another strong leader. Daniel 11:21, Revelation 13:1-8

After a few years: a Northern confederation, led by a person referred to as Gog, will be motivated to attack Beulah – an unprotected land, of great wealth. Gog and his horde will be totally wiped out and it will take seven years to bury them and clean the land. Ezekiel 38 & 39, Joel 2:20

Sometime later, the strong leader of the World Government, will make a seven year treaty with Beulah. This marks the commencement of the seventieth ‘week’ [seven years] of Daniel. There is a 3½ year period of calm and peace in the world. Daniel 9:27

After that: the world dictator comes to Jerusalem in force and declares himself to be god in the new Temple. This starts the Great Tribulation, the Trumpet and Bowl judgements. The ‘Woman’- Christian Israelites who refused to violate the Covenant, Daniel 11:32, are taken to a place of safety for 1260 days. Zechariah 14:2, Revelation 12:14

Then comes the Glorious Return of Jesus: The battle of Armageddon, Jesus destroys the army of the Anti-Christ by the Sword of His Word and chains up Satan.

The regathering of Christian Israel, all those who have kept faithful. Matthew 24:30-31

The 1000 year Millennium reign of King Jesus and His resurrected saints.

The final attack against the holy Land and the armies are instantly cremated. Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 16:13-16, Revelation 19:17-21
The Great White Throne judgement, and a New Heaven and a New Earth. Daniel 7:9-10, Revelation chapter 21

CoreIssue · Dec 27, 2018

Keraz said:
I have yet to see any 'good answers' from a 'rapture to heaven' believer. That belief is built on assumptions, conjecture, fabrication and sheer guesswork.
Getting off, means you have conceded defeat and the truth of God's Plans for His people, as I promote, is correct.
Just to make sure everyone know what God does Plan, here is the sequence of events:

Soon to happen: The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, a CME sunstrike. Isaiah 30:26-28 & 30, Malachi 4:1 & 3 It will be the Sixth seal event of cosmic and worldwide effects and the Middle East will be virtually depopulated, cleared and cleansed, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Zephaniah 1:14-18 It will be the fulfilment of Psalms 83, Isaiah 2:12-21, 2 Peter 3:7 and Revelation 6:12-17 A small Messianic Jewish remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:11-13 Many people will die around the world: Isaiah 51:6, Jeremiah 9:22, but most will survive and eventually re-establish the infrastructure.

The Seventh seal is ‘about’ a 20 year time gap from the Lord's Day of wrath, until the Return of Jesus.

In a short while: Isaiah 29:17, all the holy Land will be regenerated and the Lord’s people, Christian Israelites, be they true descendants of Jacob or grafted in, all born again believers; will gather in the new country of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 35:1-10 They will live in peace and prosperity and 144,000 missionaries are selected from them, to go out to all peoples and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Revelation 7 & 14, Isaiah 66:19

The rest of the nations will form a One World Government, led by ten Presidents. Daniel 7:24, Revelation 17:12 Before long, three will be taken over and the other seven will confer their power onto another strong leader. Daniel 11:21, Revelation 13:1-8

After a few years: a Northern confederation, led by a person referred to as Gog, will be motivated to attack Beulah – an unprotected land, of great wealth. Gog and his horde will be totally wiped out and it will take seven years to bury them and clean the land. Ezekiel 38 & 39, Joel 2:20

Sometime later, the strong leader of the World Government, will make a seven year treaty with Beulah. This marks the commencement of the seventieth ‘week’ [seven years] of Daniel. There is a 3½ year period of calm and peace in the world. Daniel 9:27

After that: the world dictator comes to Jerusalem in force and declares himself to be god in the new Temple. This starts the Great Tribulation, the Trumpet and Bowl judgements. The ‘Woman’- Christian Israelites who refused to violate the Covenant, Daniel 11:32, are taken to a place of safety for 1260 days. Zechariah 14:2, Revelation 12:14

Then comes the Glorious Return of Jesus: The battle of Armageddon, Jesus destroys the army of the Anti-Christ by the Sword of His Word and chains up Satan.

The regathering of Christian Israel, all those who have kept faithful. Matthew 24:30-31

The 1000 year Millennium reign of King Jesus and His resurrected saints.

The final attack against the holy Land and the armies are instantly cremated. Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 16:13-16, Revelation 19:17-21
The Great White Throne judgement, and a New Heaven and a New Earth. Daniel 7:9-10, Revelation chapter 21

Definitely not biblical.

Keraz · Dec 28, 2018

CoreIssue said:
Definitely not biblical

It has 31 Bible verses to support it, so you reject it? Shows what your agenda is. .

Trekson · Dec 28, 2018

"Instead of brimstone or a flood we will have a tribulation. But... The saints will be delivered, likened unto Noah, likened unto Lot. So, be ready for it... Christ could come today!"

1. In neither of those examples did they leave the earth. They were delivered while in the midst of judgement more similar to the three Hebrew children in the fire.
2. The HS is omni-present and can't "leave". He or the church are not the restrainer.
3. With that said, I do believe in a rapture just not a pre-trib one.

Phoneman777 · Dec 29, 2018

CoreIssue said:
Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, Post-Tribulation.Pre-Tribulation, Post-Millennial, Amil, Idealism etc

Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Definitions

You tag line is a bit general. Please allow me to refine it: "The Ten Commandments are the mirror of the Soul".

James 1:22-25:

1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty (aka the royal law aka the ten commandments), and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Phoneman777 · Dec 29, 2018

CoreIssue said:
Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation, Post-Tribulation.Pre-Tribulation, Post-Millennial, Amil, Idealism etc

Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Definitions

Hal Lindsey and Tim Lahaye/Jerry Jenkins preach Jesuit Futurism. Why do you support false Jesuit eschatological ideas that were already rejected by the church almost 500 years ago? It was only just over 100 years ago in the United States that Cyrus Scofield published his Scofield Reference Bible which launched the decline of Protestant Historicism and the assent of the ideas you hold as true. I assure you they are not. Protestant Historicism is as true today as it was when Luther and the rest of the Great Protestant Reformers began preaching it 500 years ago.

Rapture and End Time Beliefs

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