Timing The Birth Of Christ

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stunnedbygrace

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I guess to me, more weight is placed on the apostles account, who knew Jesus' mother, than is placed on Josephus...but we each have to decide for ourselves who is more trustworthy.
 

stunnedbygrace

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This is not a right or wrong so much as a lot of assumption. I could assume a room in a house came available right after Jesus was born...
 

101G

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Really, Mary was required by the "Law" Lev 12:1-4 to go up to the Temple around 41 after she had given birth. They went up to the temple from Nazareth to have Mary purified and then returned to Nazareth afterwards. Joseph took, Mary and Jesus on a journey of 5 days down to Egypt. News, of Herod's death occurred 5 days after the soldiers had killed the babies in Bethlehem. Then they journeyed back to Bethlehem but continued on to Nazareth because of Herod's son, Archelaus, ruled in Herod's place, a further two to three days journey after returning from Egypt. Adding up the number of days that they were traveling from Bethlehem to Egypt, Egypt to Nazareth and Nazareth to Jerusalem for Mary to be purified, we have 5+5+8+3 days, a total of 21 days for the travel. Which means that the Wise men went to Bethlehem one or two days after Jesus was born, and on their leaving Bethlehem Joseph was warned to leave and journeyed down to Egypt. That means that they probably spent two weeks in Nazareth before going to Jerusalem for Mary's purification and to present Jesus to God in the Temple.

I somehow think that you have accepted the Myths surrounding Jesus' birth rather than actually putting the chronological sequence of the story together for yourself.

Shalom
Mary and Joseph was back in Jerusalem, from the time of his birth. supportive scriptures,
Luke 2:21 "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Luke 2:22 "And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

Luke 2:23 "(As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)

Luke 2:24 "And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Luke 2:26 "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Luke 2:27 "And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

Luke 2:28 "Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

Luke 2:29 "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

Luke 2:30 "For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

Luke 2:31 "Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

Luke 2:32 "A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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And u could assume the star first appeared and was noticed by the men two years before Jesus' birth, not the night OF His birth, or even the month of His birth....
 

stunnedbygrace

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So Herod, having learned the star first appeared to them almost 2 years prior, could have been hedging his bets, trying to be very sure that any males born after that would not challenge his throne.
 

Willie T

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And u could assume the star first appeared and was noticed by the men two years before Jesus' birth, not the night OF His birth, or even the month of His birth....
That has to almost be a fact since it would have taken them a L-O-N-G time to travel all the way from the Orient. (If that is where they were from.)
 

Willie T

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An interesting thing is that this "star" only seemed to appear for the Magi. You would think that all of Israel (in fact, the whole world) would have been abuzz about such a phenomenal thing..... no matter WHEN it appeared. It seems the local Holy Men would have REALLY gotten into investigating such a thing.
 
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101G

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An interesting thing is that this "star" only seemed to appear for the Magi. You would think that all of Israel (in fact, the whole world) would have been abuzz about such a phenomenal thing..... no matter WHEN it appeared. It seems the local Holy Men would have REALLY gotten into investigating such a thing.
I'm not to think this was an actual heavenly fixed point of light, of we call a star. I'm incline to believe it was an angel, as was with the announcement to the Shephards
 

stunnedbygrace

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An interesting thing is that this "star" only seemed to appear for the Magi. You would think that all of Israel (in fact, the whole world) would have been abuzz about such a phenomenal thing..... no matter WHEN it appeared. It seems the local Holy Men would have REALLY gotten into investigating such a thing.

Yes, it's interesting that it reads as if 3 dudes showed up asking where the King was and herod and all the people were shocked and puzzled. I forget the exact wording but it reads as if the 3 men completely surprised them. Can you imagine the headlines and the grapevine??
 

CoreIssue

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Yes, it's interesting that it reads as if 3 dudes showed up asking where the King was and herod and all the people were shocked and puzzled. I forget the exact wording but it reads as if the 3 men completely surprised them. Can you imagine the headlines and the grapevine??

If you read carefully and thoroughly a lot people saw the star for all two years.

A lot of people understood it meant the ancient prophecy has been fulfilled and the Messiah had come.

Just like today many deny the Bible despite of all the scientific evidence supporting it. Or deny that the end of the church age is upon us, the rapture is soon in the trip tribulation period is about to start.

People constantly denied what they don't want to see and create alternative answers,

We see that in the signs of the times thread, in this thread and several others.
 

101G

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Yes, it's interesting that it reads as if 3 dudes showed up asking where the King was and herod and all the people were shocked and puzzled. I forget the exact wording but it reads as if the 3 men completely surprised them. Can you imagine the headlines and the grapevine??
where in scripture it was 3 wise men?
 
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CoreIssue

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We do not know how many wise men are. The number three comes from Catholic tradition.

Also, they did not travel alone. Carrying the treasures they did plus who they were means they traveled with an armed escort, a lot of supplies and whoever else was needed.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Haha! Thanks guys. I just read it. It doesn't give a number! Ah, Christmas songs...lol. I assumed it said 3!
 
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101G

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Matthew 2, I believe. But of course we are never told how many there were... probably more than a hundred in the entire caravan. The count, is of course, only from the number of gift types.
yes, 20 could had Gold, 30 frankincense, and 2 myrrh. correct, the scripture never said how many.
 
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101G

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Haha! Thanks guys. I just read it. It doesn't give a number! Ah, Christmas songs...lol. I assumed it said 3!
that's what a christian should do, READ it and see if it's so. be like them of Berea,
Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so".
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Absolutely! I had read it many times but still had a suggestion in my mind that isn't there!
 

Willie T

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Reading — and actually reading to see what is truly written, not just reading to attempt to affirm what we were told, is something a very small percentage of Christians seem capable of doing.
 
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Jay Ross

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For those who are interested, this is the way I have put the scriptures from the four Gospels arranged in chronological order: -

Introduction to the story of Christ: -Matthew 1:1-17, Mark 1:1, Luke 1:1-4, John 1:1-5
Gabriel’s prophetic declaration of John the Baptist’s birth to Zechariah in the temple: - Luke 1:5-25
Mary hears the news from the angel Gabriel that she is to conceive a child: - Luke 1:26-38
Mary visits Elisabeth: - Luke 1:39-56
Joseph is told of the reason for Mary’s pregnancy: - Matt 1:18-25a

Joseph takes Mary with him to Bethlehem.: - Luke 2:1-5
Jesus is born: - Luke 2:6-7
Jesus is named: - Matt 1:25b
Angles tell shepherds out in the field of the birth of Christ: - Luke 2:8-14
The shepherds go to Bethlehem to see Jesus: - Luke 2:15-20
Jesus is circumcised: - Luke 2:21

Note: - Please note that we are not told where Jesus was circumcised. I have only place it here for convenience, it could have just as easily occurred while they were travelling down to Egypt after the visit of the wise men.

The wise men visit Jesus: - Matt 2:1-12
Joseph is warned in a dream to go to Egypt: - Matt 2:13-15
Herod has infants under two years of age killed in Bethlehem: - Matt 2:16-18

After Herod dies, Joseph returned to Galilee and dwells in Nazareth: - Matt 2:19-23

Jesus taken to Jerusalem and presented to the Lord: - Luke 2:22-24
Simeon takes Jesus in his arms and prophecies: - Luke 2:25-34
Anna comes to the temple and speak about the redemption of Jerusalem: - Luke 2:36-38
They then return to Nazareth: - Luke 2:39

All the above possibly occurred over a period of 41 days.

The favour of God was upon Jesus: - Luke 2-40
Jesus, when he was twelve, stays behind after the Passover feast: - Luke 2-41-50
Jesus returned with his parents to Nazareth: - Luke 2:51-52

John the Baptist’s ministry: - Matt 3:1-6, Mark 1:2-6, Luke 3:1-6a, John 1:6b-13
John the Baptist berates the general population: - Luke 3:7-10
John berates the Pharisees and Sadducees: - Matt 3:7-10
John teaches that Jesus was coming after him: - Matt 3:11-12, Mark 1:7-8, Luke 3:15-18
An interlude in the story telling to explain why John was put into prison.: - Luke 3:19-20
Jesus is baptised: - Matt 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-22
His age when he began his ministry: - Luke 3:23a

An interlude in the story telling to give Jesus’ genealogy to confirm to the readers that Jesus was the son of God begins his ministry: - Luke 3:23b-38

The temptation of Jesus by Satan: - Matt 4:1-11, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13

John the Baptist continue to testify about Jesus: - John 1:14-18
Priests and Levites come to ask John the Baptist if he is the Messiah and by what authority he was baptising: - John 1:19-28
John acknowledges Jesus as the Lamb of God: - John 1:29-34
John sees Jesus the next day and tells his disciples that Jesus is the Lamb of God: - John 1:35-36
Jesus meets two of his disciples, Andrew and Peter and a third person who is not identified to us: - John 1:37-42
Jesus starts to go to Galilee: - Matt 4:12, John 1:43a
Jesus finds Philip and asks him to follow him. Philip then bring Nathanael to meet Jesus: - John 1:43b-51
Jesus leaves Nazareth and goes to Capernaum: - Matt 4:13-16
Jesus returns to Galilee: - Mark 1:14-15, Luke 4:14-15

The story line becomes a little jumbled from here on until Jesus goes up to Jerusalem for the last time.
 

101G

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For those who are interested, this is the way I have put the scriptures from the four Gospels arranged in chronological order: -

Introduction to the story of Christ: -Matthew 1:1-17, Mark 1:1, Luke 1:1-4, John 1:1-5
Gabriel’s prophetic declaration of John the Baptist’s birth to Zechariah in the temple: - Luke 1:5-25
Mary hears the news from the angel Gabriel that she is to conceive a child: - Luke 1:26-38
Mary visits Elisabeth: - Luke 1:39-56
Joseph is told of the reason for Mary’s pregnancy: - Matt 1:18-25a

Joseph takes Mary with him to Bethlehem.: - Luke 2:1-5
Jesus is born: - Luke 2:6-7
Jesus is named: - Matt 1:25b
Angles tell shepherds out in the field of the birth of Christ: - Luke 2:8-14
The shepherds go to Bethlehem to see Jesus: - Luke 2:15-20
Jesus is circumcised: - Luke 2:21

Note: - Please note that we are not told where Jesus was circumcised. I have only place it here for convenience, it could have just as easily occurred while they were travelling down to Egypt after the visit of the wise men.

The wise men visit Jesus: - Matt 2:1-12
Joseph is warned in a dream to go to Egypt: - Matt 2:13-15
Herod has infants under two years of age killed in Bethlehem: - Matt 2:16-18

After Herod dies, Joseph returned to Galilee and dwells in Nazareth: - Matt 2:19-23

Jesus taken to Jerusalem and presented to the Lord: - Luke 2:22-24
Simeon takes Jesus in his arms and prophecies: - Luke 2:25-34
Anna comes to the temple and speak about the redemption of Jerusalem: - Luke 2:36-38
They then return to Nazareth: - Luke 2:39

All the above possibly occurred over a period of 41 days.

The favour of God was upon Jesus: - Luke 2-40
Jesus, when he was twelve, stays behind after the Passover feast: - Luke 2-41-50
Jesus returned with his parents to Nazareth: - Luke 2:51-52

John the Baptist’s ministry: - Matt 3:1-6, Mark 1:2-6, Luke 3:1-6a, John 1:6b-13
John the Baptist berates the general population: - Luke 3:7-10
John berates the Pharisees and Sadducees: - Matt 3:7-10
John teaches that Jesus was coming after him: - Matt 3:11-12, Mark 1:7-8, Luke 3:15-18
An interlude in the story telling to explain why John was put into prison.: - Luke 3:19-20
Jesus is baptised: - Matt 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-22
His age when he began his ministry: - Luke 3:23a

An interlude in the story telling to give Jesus’ genealogy to confirm to the readers that Jesus was the son of God begins his ministry: - Luke 3:23b-38

The temptation of Jesus by Satan: - Matt 4:1-11, Mark 1:12-13, Luke 4:1-13

John the Baptist continue to testify about Jesus: - John 1:14-18
Priests and Levites come to ask John the Baptist if he is the Messiah and by what authority he was baptising: - John 1:19-28
John acknowledges Jesus as the Lamb of God: - John 1:29-34
John sees Jesus the next day and tells his disciples that Jesus is the Lamb of God: - John 1:35-36
Jesus meets two of his disciples, Andrew and Peter and a third person who is not identified to us: - John 1:37-42
Jesus starts to go to Galilee: - Matt 4:12, John 1:43a
Jesus finds Philip and asks him to follow him. Philip then bring Nathanael to meet Jesus: - John 1:43b-51
Jesus leaves Nazareth and goes to Capernaum: - Matt 4:13-16
Jesus returns to Galilee: - Mark 1:14-15, Luke 4:14-15

The story line becomes a little jumbled from here on until Jesus goes up to Jerusalem for the last time.
a pretty good storyline with a few exception, but I comend your effort. nothing to argue over.

but may I add this also. these events, just for anyone's edification, are recorded in the book of Revelation chapter 12. this may help one to correctly understand the book more accurately.

be blessed.