Rapture and End Time Beliefs

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Keraz said:
Jews are only of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, with a few from other tribes plus Gentiles, who have joined Judah and become Jews.
The other ten tribes remain scattered among the nations. They can be identified from their Christian faith.

So you constantly make wrong statements in your desperate attempts to prove the false theory of a 'rapture to heaven'.

At the second coming all the tribes will be gathered to Jerusalem. No longer any lost tribes.

Trekson · Dec 31, 2018

CoreIssue said:
The first Christians were Jews, so your statement is already invalid.

The four Gospels were all the Jews because no Christians existed yet.

There are no Christians on this earth in the flesh from the rapture on.

You're so hepped up on Christian yet you failed to notice the New Jerusalem Jewish name. Christ was born a Jew. The apostles were Jews.

The foundations of the new Jerusalem are Jewish.

In the MK Christ will sit on the throne of David, a Jew. The temple will read restored with its priesthood, all Jews.

The 144,000 chosen of Revelation are Jews.

Your argument is not thought through and is bogus.

Well, I've got to reply to this one. When they were followers of Christ they ARE Christians. The term Christians was first coined when only Jews were believers. The church is first used in Matt. 10. Imo, every mention of His believers after that and all the other gospels is talking about Christians. In Matt. 24, he is talking to the disciples as the founders of the general church, NOT as Jews. Is Judea mentioned? Of course but simply because they lived in that geographical area. I do agree that the 144,000 are all Jewish by blood but Christians in spirit. God isn't going to save believers in the anti-Christ.

For preterists...most of the church was gone before 67ad so the only thing really accomplished was to take down an out-moded form of worship and nothing prophetic at all besides the destruction of Jerusalem which will happen again!

Trekson · Dec 31, 2018

CoreIssue said:
But the Bible doesn't call them Christian in the book of Revelation.

Christian includes being born again. Trip saints are not born again while alive.

Christians do not worship in a stone Temple. But in the MK the temple is returned with priest from the tribe of Levi.

Christians do not do and will sacrifice but they will in the MK per Ezekiel.

Matthew 24 does not debunk pre-trib.

The description in Ez. was for the second temple but the Jews ended up not deserving it, but that is the only reason it mentions sacrifices. Yes it will be built and the land promises retained but sacrifices will NOT continue or it would make everything that Christ did in vain. Believing that is coming real close to blasphemy.

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Trekson said:
Well, I've got to reply to this one. When they were followers of Christ they ARE Christians. The term Christians was first coined when only Jews were believers. The church is first used in Matt. 10. Imo, every mention of His believers after that and all the other gospels is talking about Christians. In Matt. 24, he is talking to the disciples as the founders of the general church, NOT as Jews. Is Judea mentioned? Of course but simply because they lived in that geographical area. I do agree that the 144,000 are all Jewish by blood but Christians in spirit. God isn't going to save believers in the anti-Christ.

For preterists...most of the church was gone before 67ad so the only thing really accomplished was to take down an out-moded form of worship and nothing prophetic at all besides the destruction of Jerusalem which will happen again!

Well, preterists are wrong and a minority belief. In 67 A.D. the church was at its infancy and growing. The notion that prophecy is already been fulfilled is illogical and absurd.

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Trekson said:
The description in Ez. was for the second temple but the Jews ended up not deserving it, but that is the only reason it mentions sacrifices. Yes it will be built and the land promises retained but sacrifices will NOT continue or it would make everything that Christ did in vain. Believing that is coming real close to blasphemy.

A prophecy made is one that will be fulfilled, not maybe.

Stranger · Dec 31, 2018

Malsi Si Live said:
And you can't see that ANOTHER return/PAROUSIA, and another rapture/HARPAZO were fabricated to cover up the many contradictions from several other passages that specifically show the two happen together?
That's where the fabrications come in.

Other contradictions required the fabrication of changing the meaning of the last trump, and the timing and meaning of the Day of the Lord, to name just a few.

You guys have accepted the fabrication of 'another' return of Christ and 'another' rapture. 1 Thes. 4 shows and 2 Thes. 2 shows the two happen together.

Anybody who says there's 7 year space between 1 Thes. 4:15 and 17 is grammatically and interpretationally inept.

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming/PAROUSIA of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up/HARPAZO together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

You can't quote a verse that says Jesus returns before tribulation. You can't quote a verse that there's a rapture before tribulation. Why? They don't exist!

(Rev. 3:10)

Stranger

Keraz · Dec 31, 2018

Zion, the Promised Land:

Isaiah 49:14-23 Zion says: The Lord has forsaken me. The Lord says: Can a woman forget her child? I shall never forget you. I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands. Your dwellings are always before My eyes.

Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart. Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.

Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away. The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say: This place is too small for us. Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?

The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land. Kings will be your sponsors and great people will serve and honour you. You will know that I am the Lord, none who trust in Me will be disappointed.

Zion: The holy Land, forsaken and desolate, Jeremiah 22:6-7, Hosea 4:3, that is how it will be after the next prophesied event: The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, an explosion of the sun, directed at the Middle East that will clear and cleanse the entire area. Currently most of the holy Land is occupied by atheists or false religion worshippers. The Jews will be judged, Zechariah 13:7-9, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7

‘the enemies depart, they are now far away’: Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11 tell us how the surrounding nations and entities all hate Israel and want to ‘wipe them off the map’. Those attackers will all be killed, some by their own weapons; Psalms 7:12-16, and the rest of the inhabitants will flee. Jeremiah 49:4-5 & 35-37

‘Your people will hasten back’: A part of Judah has returned, but very few are true believers and Judah now faces judgement. A remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:13 All true Christians are now the Lord’s people: Romans 9:24-26, Psalms 24:3-5, Malachi 3:16-17

‘The Lord’s people, all those who put their trust in Him’: Christians from every race, nation and language, will be gathered and transported to all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 66:18b-20, Psalms 107, Jer. 23:3-4, Zechariah 9:16 On that Day their God will save them, they will sparkle like jewels in the Land.

‘The Promised Land’: will be regenerated and become fruitful. Joel 2:21-24, Psalms 126:1-5

Ezekiel 36:8-12 You, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of your people is near. Isaiah 51:3

Isaiah 35:1-10 Let the desert be glad, let it flower and rejoice!...Be strong, My people, fear not: your God comes to save you with His vengeance and retribution. Then; understanding will be given to all who couldn’t see or comprehend the Prophetic Word.

A highway will appear and by that road, the Lord’s redeemed people will travel into their heritage. His holy people, set free will enter Zion with shouts of praise for their Redeemer. Gladness and joy will come upon them and suffering and sorrow will be gone.

Psalms 48:11-14 The hills of Zion rejoice, Judah’s cities are glad. Walk about the holy Land, count the towers. Note the fortifications and buildings, so that you can tell about them to the coming generations. For this God is our God, our guide and protector, now and forever.

Psalms 69:35-36 For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah. The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love His Name will dwell there.

Isaiah 55:11-13 You will go out with joy and be led forth in peace....the Land will rejoice at your coming. Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

That all this happens before the Return of Jesus in His glory, is made clear by Isaiah 49:23,

‘you will know that I am the Lord’’. First, His people will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Those who serve the Lord will inherit the Land. Psalms 126:1-5

All this is prophesied to happen as all the faithful Christians prepare for the eventual Millennial reign of Jesus.

Stranger · Dec 31, 2018

Keraz said:
Zion, the Promised Land:

Isaiah 49:14-23 Zion says: The Lord has forsaken me. The Lord says: Can a woman forget her child? I shall never forget you. I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands. Your dwellings are always before My eyes.

Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart. Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.

Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away. The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say: This place is too small for us. Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?

The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land. Kings will be your sponsors and great people will serve and honour you. You will know that I am the Lord, none who trust in Me will be disappointed.

Zion: The holy Land, forsaken and desolate, Jeremiah 22:6-7, Hosea 4:3, that is how it will be after the next prophesied event: The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, an explosion of the sun, directed at the Middle East that will clear and cleanse the entire area. Currently most of the holy Land is occupied by atheists or false religion worshippers. The Jews will be judged, Zechariah 13:7-9, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7

‘the enemies depart, they are now far away’: Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11 tell us how the surrounding nations and entities all hate Israel and want to ‘wipe them off the map’. Those attackers will all be killed, some by their own weapons; Psalms 7:12-16, and the rest of the inhabitants will flee. Jeremiah 49:4-5 & 35-37

‘Your people will hasten back’: A part of Judah has returned, but very few are true believers and Judah now faces judgement. A remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:13 All true Christians are now the Lord’s people: Romans 9:24-26, Psalms 24:3-5, Malachi 3:16-17

‘The Lord’s people, all those who put their trust in Him’: Christians from every race, nation and language, will be gathered and transported to all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 66:18b-20, Psalms 107, Jer. 23:3-4, Zechariah 9:16 On that Day their God will save them, they will sparkle like jewels in the Land.

‘The Promised Land’: will be regenerated and become fruitful. Joel 2:21-24, Psalms 126:1-5

Ezekiel 36:8-12 You, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of your people is near. Isaiah 51:3

Isaiah 35:1-10 Let the desert be glad, let it flower and rejoice!...Be strong, My people, fear not: your God comes to save you with His vengeance and retribution. Then; understanding will be given to all who couldn’t see or comprehend the Prophetic Word.

A highway will appear and by that road, the Lord’s redeemed people will travel into their heritage. His holy people, set free will enter Zion with shouts of praise for their Redeemer. Gladness and joy will come upon them and suffering and sorrow will be gone.

Psalms 48:11-14 The hills of Zion rejoice, Judah’s cities are glad. Walk about the holy Land, count the towers. Note the fortifications and buildings, so that you can tell about them to the coming generations. For this God is our God, our guide and protector, now and forever.

Psalms 69:35-36 For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah. The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love His Name will dwell there.

Isaiah 55:11-13 You will go out with joy and be led forth in peace....the Land will rejoice at your coming. Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

That all this happens before the Return of Jesus in His glory, is made clear by Isaiah 49:23,

‘you will know that I am the Lord’’. First, His people will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Those who serve the Lord will inherit the Land. Psalms 126:1-5

All this is prophesied to happen as all the faithful Christians prepare for the eventual Millennial reign of Jesus.

As usual, more easy print out ready made information that will not stand the test of debate. This is your usual 'restart' button.

Stranger

Keraz · Dec 31, 2018

Stranger said:
(Rev. 3:10)

Stranger

Using Revelation 3:10 as a 'rapture to heaven' proof, just shows the paucity and lack of any real scriptural support for that false theory.
Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My Command to stand firm, I will also keep you from the ordeal that is to fall upon the whole world to test its inhabitants. REBible

Have you had to stand firm as a worldwide disaster strikes yet? Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 tell us what we must do on that Day, THEN the Lord will protect us, NOT remove.
Going to heaven is not even hinted at there, or anywhere in the Bible.

Keraz · Dec 31, 2018

Stranger said:
As usual, more easy print out ready made information that will not stand the test of debate. This is your usual 'restart' button.

Stranger

Do you not read the Bible? What I do is make that easier and help to explain what the Bible is actually telling us.
That obviously doesn't suit your fanciful beliefs.

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Keraz said:
Zion, the Promised Land:

Isaiah 49:14-23 Zion says: The Lord has forsaken me. The Lord says: Can a woman forget her child? I shall never forget you. I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands. Your dwellings are always before My eyes.

Your people will hasten back, while your enemies depart. Look around, your children gather and come to you. They will be as ornaments in the Land.

Once the Land was desolate. Your enemies are now far away. The children born while the Land was occupied by foreigners will now say: This place is too small for us. Zion will say; who bore these children, when I was deserted, where did they come from?

The Lord says; I shall signal to the nations, they will carefully transport My people to their Promised Land. Kings will be your sponsors and great people will serve and honour you. You will know that I am the Lord, none who trust in Me will be disappointed.

Zion: The holy Land, forsaken and desolate, Jeremiah 22:6-7, Hosea 4:3, that is how it will be after the next prophesied event: The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, an explosion of the sun, directed at the Middle East that will clear and cleanse the entire area. Currently most of the holy Land is occupied by atheists or false religion worshippers. The Jews will be judged, Zechariah 13:7-9, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Hosea 4:3, Zephaniah 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7

‘the enemies depart, they are now far away’: Psalms 83 and Micah 4:11 tell us how the surrounding nations and entities all hate Israel and want to ‘wipe them off the map’. Those attackers will all be killed, some by their own weapons; Psalms 7:12-16, and the rest of the inhabitants will flee. Jeremiah 49:4-5 & 35-37

‘Your people will hasten back’: A part of Judah has returned, but very few are true believers and Judah now faces judgement. A remnant will survive in Jerusalem. Isaiah 6:13 All true Christians are now the Lord’s people: Romans 9:24-26, Psalms 24:3-5, Malachi 3:16-17

‘The Lord’s people, all those who put their trust in Him’: Christians from every race, nation and language, will be gathered and transported to all the area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Isaiah 66:18b-20, Psalms 107, Jer. 23:3-4, Zechariah 9:16 On that Day their God will save them, they will sparkle like jewels in the Land.

‘The Promised Land’: will be regenerated and become fruitful. Joel 2:21-24, Psalms 126:1-5

Ezekiel 36:8-12 You, mountains of Israel, put forth your branches and bear fruit, for the homecoming of your people is near. Isaiah 51:3

Isaiah 35:1-10 Let the desert be glad, let it flower and rejoice!...Be strong, My people, fear not: your God comes to save you with His vengeance and retribution. Then; understanding will be given to all who couldn’t see or comprehend the Prophetic Word.

A highway will appear and by that road, the Lord’s redeemed people will travel into their heritage. His holy people, set free will enter Zion with shouts of praise for their Redeemer. Gladness and joy will come upon them and suffering and sorrow will be gone.

Psalms 48:11-14 The hills of Zion rejoice, Judah’s cities are glad. Walk about the holy Land, count the towers. Note the fortifications and buildings, so that you can tell about them to the coming generations. For this God is our God, our guide and protector, now and forever.

Psalms 69:35-36 For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah. The children of those who serve Him will inherit the Land and those who love His Name will dwell there.

Isaiah 55:11-13 You will go out with joy and be led forth in peace....the Land will rejoice at your coming. Reference: Revised English Bible, some verses abridged.

That all this happens before the Return of Jesus in His glory, is made clear by Isaiah 49:23,

‘you will know that I am the Lord’’. First, His people will gather and settle in all of the holy Land. Those who serve the Lord will inherit the Land. Psalms 126:1-5

All this is prophesied to happen as all the faithful Christians prepare for the eventual Millennial reign of Jesus.

Stranger · Dec 31, 2018

Malsi Si Live said:
I know all about that fabrication, it's one of the older ones. And you guys call both of them, A "PAROUSIA."
Two returns/parousia's, two raptures/harpazo's, two different trumpets, a 7 year Day of the Lord, it never ends.

Mathew 24 outright blows up pre-trib because you cannot overcome the fact the ELECT refers to Chris

The 'elect' refers to all of the elect. Including the elect angels.

No, only one rapture of the Church.

Yes, you know it all...you have told me yourself.

Stranger

Stranger · Dec 31, 2018

Keraz said:
Using Revelation 3:10 as a 'rapture to heaven' proof, just shows the paucity and lack of any real scriptural support for that false theory.
Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My Command to stand firm, I will also keep you from the ordeal that is to fall upon the whole world to test its inhabitants. REBible

Have you had to stand firm as a worldwide disaster strikes yet? Joel 2:32 and Acts 2:21 tell us what we must do on that Day, THEN the Lord will protect us, NOT remove.
Going to heaven is not even hinted at there, or anywhere in the Bible.

And nothing you have said disproves the Rapture of the Church. Read my post #(292).

Stranger

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Malsi Si Live said:
I know all about that fabrication, it's one of the older ones. And you guys call both of them, A "PAROUSIA."
Two returns/parousia's, two raptures/harpazo's, two different trumpets, a 7 year Day of the Lord, it never ends.

Mathew 24 outright blows up pre-trib because you cannot overcome the fact the ELECT refers to Christians!

False. One rapture then seven years and then second return.

The day the Lord lasts about a thousand years ending in a rapture and destruction of the heavens and the earth.

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Stranger said:
The 'elect' refers to all of the elect. Including the elect angels.

No, only one rapture of the Church.

Yes, you know it all...you have told me yourself.

Stranger

Curious. Where do you see angels as elect?

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Malsi Si Live said:
I told you that I know it all? I can tell you're having trouble coping with the fact that as a pre-tribber, you can't overcome Mathew 24, it's a pre-trib delima.

I never said I know it all. One thing for sure, I know more than you!

Matthew 24 is no dilemma for us.

Stranger · Dec 31, 2018

Keraz said:
Do you not read the Bible? What I do is make that easier and help to explain what the Bible is actually telling us.
That obviously doesn't suit your fanciful beliefs.

Yes, I read the Bible.

I do not attempt to make it easier to explain what the Bible is telling us. I attempt to explain what the Bible is saying. It doesn't matter if I am speaking to new Christians or those old in the faith. I trust the Holy Ghost to minister to each as He sees fit.

Perhaps you cater too much.

Stranger

CoreIssue · Dec 31, 2018

Malsi Si Live said:
That's right! I forgot about that fabrication. That's kind of a new one! Now I have to figure out what contradiction it was that required that fabrication!

Is everything you do not accept a fabrication?

Stranger · Dec 31, 2018

CoreIssue said:
Curious. Where do you see angels as elect?

(1 Tim. 5:21)

Stranger

Stranger · Dec 31, 2018

Malsi Si Live said:
I told you that I know it all? I can tell you're having trouble coping with the fact that as a pre-tribber, you can't overcome Mathew 24, it's a pre-trib delima.

I never said I know it all. One thing for sure, I know more than you!

Well, you keep saying you know all. So?

A lot of people know more than me. Do you get a badge for that?

Stranger

Rapture and End Time Beliefs

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads