Jack Van Impe preaching=Jesus is about to Return!!
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Bill Graham DID NOT "censor" Any Specific Denominational doctrine or views.
First one would need to Understand...
1) Billy Graham was an Evangelical Christian.
2) What IS an Evangelical Christian.
An Evangelical Christian is A Strict Bible Word of God Adherent.
They are not A Catholic, who then, Censors part of the Catholic Doctrine.
They are not A Baptist, A Mormon, A Muslim, A Lutheran, etc.... WHO THEN preaches, those Denominations Doctrine...(but Censors them).
1) A Catholic, A Baptist, A Mormon, A Muslim, A Jew,, A Lutheran, etc.....ALL have their own Specific Doctrines, which THEY ALL Claim are BASED on the Word of God.
2) So....Can ANY or ALL of those "specific" religious denominations/groups, have SOME THINGS THE SAME (as any other religion or denomination) in their CORE Beliefs?
Of course.
3) Would you call A BAPTIST Preacher, A Baptist, who Censors Catholic Doctrine? No.
Because a BAPTIST Preacher IS NOT a Catholic, who is then Preaching Catholic Doctrine, by "censoring parts of the Catholic Doctrine".
Dave L. Was IMPLYING, Billy Graham, was TEACHING Catholic Doctrine...."but censoring it". That is False.
Billy Graham was an Evangelical Christian...
NOT a Catholic, and NOT "adopting the Catholic Doctrine", then picking through it and Keeping what Billy thought was okay, and discarding other parts.
Billy Graham DID NOT STUDY OR GIVE consideration to Catholic Doctrine.
And Evangelical Christian, studies AND gives consideration TO Biblical Scripture; THEE Word of God.(regardless of what OTHER Christians or Denominational Churches do)
You mention your neighbor didn't LIKE Billy Graham...and the reasoning....was Because Billy "catered" to the RICH.
Is that TRUE? Absolutely.
Rich Financially? Absolutely.
Rich Spiritually? Absolutely.
Is that the WHOLE Truth? Absolutely NOT.
Did Billy Graham "cater" to Catholics? Yes.
Is that the WHOLE Truth? No.
Did Billy Graham "cater" to Catholics, in the SAME MANNER, a Catholic Priest would? No.
Catholic Priests teach and preach to Catholics, Catholic Doctrine.
Baptist Pastors teach and preach to Baptists, Baptist Doctrine.
Etc...with every specific group/denomination/member/visitor
the Cleric, of THAT Church, teaches and preaches according to THAT Churches' Doctrine.
And EVANGELICAL Christian, CLERIC, will teach, preach, TO ANY PERSON;
Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Muslim, Atheist, Believer, Converted, Tall, Short, Male, Female, Rich, Poor, Religious Cleric, One with No Religious affiliation, Monarchs, Common People, Domestic, Foreign, Black, White, in Any Nation.
IN OTHER WORDS...they will teach and preach....TO ANY ONE....Strictly From the Biblical Word of God.
They (Evangelical Christian Clerics) DO NOT (typically) have a "HOME CHURCH" from which THEY teach and preach (some do, but not typically).
Billy Graham's Ministry, was VIA, him Traveling, to Churches, as a Guest, to setting up his own tents in different places, renting buildings in different places, and Inviting ANY ONE to come to Hear. Also was invited to different states, different countries, to come and speak the Word of God, that was opened for anyone to come and hear.
Other Evangelical Christian's do the SAME thing. Some Travel all over the world, Some send their voice all over the world, via, radio, and some do so by television. Some have a Central Church AND Travel and Evangalize in other Churches as guests, and other countries.
Billy Graham is noted for his lengthy ministry of traveling and evangelizing, for numerous years, in numerous places, to numerous people from all walks of life.
Jack Van Impe is also an Evangelical Christian, who use to travel, is confined mostly to radio and particularly Television, that ANYONE can tune in and listen or not.
Paul Crouch also was an Evangelical Christian, who established a television network, that continuously expanded to more and more nations around the world.
Perry Stone is an Evangelical Christian, who travels, to other Churches as a guest, and outside of the US, mostly to Israel, also with a Pentecostal Church base, in Tennessee.
While an Evangelical Christian can mingle and converse with ANYONE, clerics or members of specific denominations....they DO NOT Adopt the others DOCTRINE, then "omit or censor" parts of it....
An Evangelical Christians DOCTRINE is strictly the Biblical Word of God, and WILL teach and preach to ANYONE, who is themselves, willing to listen.
And Absolutely Evangelical Christian Clerics are under scrutiny, and criticism and attack just as is every other Cleric, from any named Denomination or any Religion, which also is constantly criticized and attacked.
Just a point...of understanding who is preaching what doctrine and to whom.
Secondly, one what basis, is someone lodging a "complaint" against ANY cleric or "specific" church member.
Your neighbor, not liking Billy Graham, because he "catered" to the rich?
IF your neighbor has paid attention, opened their eyes and ears, your neighbor could have observed his message was FOR ALL, willing to hear. NONE excluded.
Happy New Year,
God Bless,
Taken
Phoneman777
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If you invited me on a round the world vacation and I said I couldn't because "70 weeks are scheduled to get my medical degree"
...does anything in that statement establish/demand that I'll be walking across the stage in cap and gown by the end of the 70 weeks? No, and good thing you didn't interrupt your vacation, because it turns out that was just the lectures and I've still got clinicals, labs, etc., to do afterward (I'll still be happy to take that nice gift off your hands, tho LOL).
When Gabriel traveled across the cosmos to our world and said, "70 Weeks...are cut off to finish, make, make, bring in, seal up, and anoint..."
...does anything in that statement establish/demand that those six objectives must be accomplished by the end of the 70 Weeks? No more in this case than in the comparative analogy above. It's just telling us why they are cut off in the first place. Therefore, to claim they must be accomplished by the end is purely assumption ... and to introduce your six interpretations as "evidence" for why they must be accomplished by the end of the 70 Weeks would be circular reasoning.
Phoneman777
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I don't define it at all because no gap - whether it is made up of missing time or of a vacuum devoid of everything including time - is inserted between the 69th and 70th Week.
Naomi25
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Do you happen to notice that in the verse you quoted that it is Jesus, and the work that he did, that makes us unblemished and without spot?
If we are not whores, it is only because we are found in Christ. The only way we can be found pure when he comes, is not by working on getting those stains out, but by looking to him and putting our whole trust in him.
Naomi25
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Many things that Jesus talked about are happening, yes. But then, he said that they would be ongoing in the process of "birth pangs", and that we shouldn't worry, for the end was "not yet", in regard to these things. In regard to the other things, while we might watch them with interest, there is nothing really in scripture that gives us a litmus test on "how bad" they must get before Christ comes. There is no, shall we say, boiling point, at which we know Christ must come, and so, in keeping with the scriptures that tell us we cannot know the time of his coming, we honor that and go about our lives. Watching, yes, hoping, yes. Excited for his return; always. Anticipating it to be 'soon'? Oh yes! But telling everyone it has to be this, or that because of this particular sign, or that obvious sign....no. The bible does not give us leave to do that.
Naomi25
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The Church, named as such, no. But the elect? Sure...just follow Abraham's line down, for starters. Every OT believer who looked to God in faith to uphold his original promise to Adam and Eve...to bring forth one to crush the head of the serpant, was found to have saving faith. (Galatians 3:6; Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:9; Romans 4:21–22; Romans 4:3)
They may not have known exactly what that promise would look like, but that's sort of the nature of faith, isn't it? We are lucky today, in that we can look back and know that it is Christ Jesus that our faith rests in.
Naomi25
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God doesn't call on us to jettison logic just to see his point. In fact, logic is held together by his laws and very being. It might sound good to say we need to replay common sense with spiritual sense but its not. We shouldn't need to. And if that's what you're relying upon to make your system work, then I urge against it.
Oh yes I agree about the elect faithful as in Hebrews 11!
Dispensational Bible students do of course insist that properly speaking the church - the revealed mystery of which Ephesians 1 speaks of, is not revealed as an entity in the Old Testament.
Naomi25
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And I think that's one of the places they get into trouble...not recognizing the when we reach the NT, Paul teaches us to look back and say, "those promises God made to Abraham, he made them to Christ and to Abrahams spiritual children...the elect."
I know Dispensationalists have a really hard time with this, but its biblical.
Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. -Galatians 3:16
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. -Romans 9:6–8
The Remnant of Israel
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. -Romans 11:1–5
When you add to these verses those that talk about the elect becoming one people in Christ...there no longer being Jew or Gentile believers...only those who believe in Jesus. As well as the verses that speak of there only being one way to God...through faith in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross....I'm just unsure where the Dispensationalists find their doctrine on separating out the Jewish nation and putting them back into the swing of temple building and sacrificing. Christ came to do away with those things. They were the types and shadows. Why would God ask people to go back to them?
Waiting on him
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Just want to add it’s a selfish doctrine, there’s a world full of lost souls waiting for the light of Christ to shine in there hearts. This whole group is saying Lord please take us out of our suffering as quick as possible, can it not be seen that through our sufferings and pain being overcome in the present world people come to the knowledge of Christ. I would ask Lord give us STRENGTH to endure your reproach, but he did say men would be lovers of themselves.
Naomi25
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To be fair to them, I think they see it as them being removed before God pours HIS wrath out on the world. However...I can't see any evidence, biblically, to support that. Firstly, every verse I read that talks of God "keeping us from the wrath to come" seems written in the context of final judgement, not in a time of tribulation here on earth. Secondly, the "Great Tribulation", if we assume that it will indeed happen as they say it will, will see most persecution of believers done by unbelievers...which we have now, and yes...they must persevere. In fact, they are given rewards in heaven for persevering. Also...one must ask the question...in this "Great Tribulation", the 'wrath' that God is supposingly pouring out on the whole world, they are things like natural disasters. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but...do we not have those very things now? Are Christians not perishing in those things now as well? Is God rescuing them from those things? He undoubtably could, as he has control over everything.
So...I just find one after another inconsistency with the Dispensational system.
Waiting on him
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It’s been going on for millennia. However I can’t even find a church to attend without 50% of the men and women carrying guns, so concerned about what men will do to their bodies. Do you think the apostles carried weapons?
In John 16 there is the tribulation principle, while clearly in Matthew 24 the great tribulation is a unique event.
Waiting on him
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Romans 8:35-36 KJV
[35] Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [36] As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Tecarta Bible PremiumThis is the POWER!
Waiting on him
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Naomi25
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LOL! Move to Australia. We aren't even allowed to carry pepper spray.
Naomi25
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The Tribulation spoken of in Matt 24 is clearly the destruction of the Temple. For many reasons that I can get into if you want.
In John 16 it talks of general tribulation, and that is something everyone agrees that we have on a daily basis.
I'm not even saying that tribulation won't increase towards the end...I think the bible indicates it will. What I am saying is that I don't think, biblically, it can be proven that there will be a time period where the Church must be removed so as to avoid God's wrath. We escape God's wrath in Christ.
If God choses to deal with Israel as a nation again, there is nothing in the bible that mandates that it must be done with the Church gone. After all, he's focused on us just fine while they've been here.
Too many holes...too many questions...too many assumptions made that scripture just doesn't say.
In 1 Thessalonians 5.9, Paul, who has just been speaking about the day of the Lord - important as an earthly event in the Old Testament where the church is not in view - says: 'For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ'.
In Matthew 24.21, the Lord Jesus speaks not simply of the general tribulation principle which all members of the church typically face, but to a unique event: 'For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.'
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