Proof of the Trinity. No takers?

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Dave L

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while "apeck" and dave are peparing their responses, I'm going to, sa they say, "throw down the gauntlet", or "draw a line in the sand, that no can cross".

dave, said in Post #421, "The doctrine of the Trinity in scripture can be summed up as; There is one God. The Father is God. The Son is God. And the Holy Spirit is God. The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit is not the Father. If you violate any of this, you do not understand scripture on the matter". and he gives the baptism of our Lord Jesus as his example. will I'm going to violate this matter by the Scriptures.

I always propose two, the "share" of one Spirit. and at the Baptism of Jesus we will prove it.
Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased".

here we have our Lord standing in water, the Son. we have the Spirit of God descending like a dove, the Holy Spirit.

then we have "A Voice" from heaven. QUESTION, "where in the scriptures that says that this voice is God's voice here at the baptism?". let me remind people of this,
John 5:37 "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape".

now this was spoken of the Lord Jesus after his baprism, and can the Lord Jesus lie? of course not.

I have proved that angels have spoke for God "FROM HEAVEN" using his chosen words fo the angel to speak, hence the title "angels".... messengers.

so I have answered, and showed that only the Son and Holy Spirit "ONLY" is present at the baptism.

now, no one have answered the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question, nor the Revelation 1:4 & 5 question.

if one has, please give Post number. I could be mistaken and did not see the answer.

PICJAG.

for clarity, re-read the post, or ask any question on the matter, or this post.
I already gave my response. Looking forward to yours.
 
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101G

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Jesus the man spoke as the Word/Son of God, the second person of the trinity. But in him, the man, dwells the triune God.
see dave, how can someone be second if they are, as you say, co-equal?.

understand you said, the Son is the second person, well is not Jesus the "FIRST" and the "LAST" so how can he be "SECOND"?

and two, if the trinity dwells in the body of JESUS, then Jesus is "three" separate persons, correct? yes or no.

I'll be looking for your answer
 

101G

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Quoted above.
well that's no answer. LOL... now what about that Acts question Post #933 was it Jesus (the person whom you calls the second Person in the Godhead) the one who chose Saul, now Paul as his minister?, only a yes or no is sufficient
 
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Dave L

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well that's no answer. LOL... now what about that Acts question Post #933 was it Jesus (the person whom you calls the second Person in the Godhead) the one who chose Saul, now Paul as his minister?, only a yes or no is sufficient
You need to understand the "deity of Christ" doctrine before you can understand enough to ask the right questions.
 

101G

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You need to understand the "deity of Christ" doctrine before you can understand enough to ask the right questions.
can't follow instruction either?, look dave I know you're in a bind, I'm trying to help you out. when you said JESUS is the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, that just put the last nail in the coffin for your doctrine of the trinity.

Once again, who was speaking to Ananias in Acts chapter 22:14, was it the PERSON called the Son, or the Person called the Father.

if you can't answer strike 1, or really two. but I;ll give you the benefit of the doubt... :D

your answer please.
 
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Dave L

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can't follow instruction either?, look dave I know you're in a bind, I'm trying to help you out. when you said JESUS is the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, that just put the last nail in the coffin for your doctrine of the trinity.

Once again, who was speaking to Ananias in Acts chapter 22:14, was it the PERSON called the Son, or the Person called the Father.

if you can't answer strike 1, or really two. but I;ll give you the benefit of the doubt... :D

your answer please.
Why did the Apostles baptize in the name of Jesus Christ after Jesus told them to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?
 

amadeus

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Biblical Faith comes only from God's written word, either read or preached.
Then all of those in countries where it is illegal to own a Bibles are irretrievably lost even though in their hearts they hunger and thirst for righteousness? Was Jesus a liar?

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

It comes from knowing what the word says and trusting that it is true.
And this little bit of knowledge from you throws out what Paul wrote?

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

Faith does not come by "knowing" but by "hearing" the Word of God.

There are some, even many, that hear with the natural ear but according to Jesus when he cites Isaiah, who are deaf to God's Word.

"Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Matt 13:13-15


To have or receive faith a person must "hear" the Word of God". If you have missed what the Word of God is by presuming that anyone who reads the Bible can "hear" the "Word", you are presuming much for all of those curious readers who have no interest or desire to seek the kingdom and righteousness of God. [Matt 6:33]

A person with heart waxed gross and hearing dull [spiritual, not physical] cannot hear the Word of God. A person, on the other hand, whose is hungry and thirsty for God's kingdom and righteousness will "hear" even if he has no Bible, even if he is physically deaf, even if he is completely illiterate.

Unless a person is born again, they cannot understand the word in any true sense. Sight faith is rooted in the flesh and depends on external stimuli. Sight faith cannot save.

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret." I Cor 14:27
The Words that Jesus spoke to people and which were written down in scriptures were in parables requiring an interpreter. Where or who was the interpreter?


"All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:" Matt 13:34

Notice that the parables that Jesus spoke were in the unknown tongue Paul writes about later.

Jesus was the interpreter for those present to whom it was given to understand. For those of us coming later the interpreter was to be in us:
The Holy Spirit as Jesus promised:


"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28

Where is the church? Where Jesus is with us and in us... that is to say, we are in his name!

I have no idea what your phrase "sight faith" means. It is not in any of my Bibles yet you are the one who insists that the Bible alone is the Word of God.

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" Matt 18:20
 
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amadeus

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Faith comes only by God's written word. If you do not know what it says, your faith is merely the same faith people have when they buy products thinking the advertisements might be true. It is a belief anchored in the flesh.
Knowing what the written text of the Bible says and understanding what it says are two very different things. Without an interpreter no one knows a thing about it even though they may say they do and may think that they do.
 
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amadeus

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God always has the last word.
But that is not you! Even Jesus knew when it was time for him to remain quiet:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven" Ecc 3:1
"...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:7

"Then said Pilate unto him, Hearest thou not how many things they witness against thee?
And he answered him to never a word; insomuch that the governor marvelled greatly." Matt 27:13-14
 
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justbyfaith

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Other previous sons of God were not truly God's sons because they are/were not immortal.

There is only one begotten Son of God (John 3:16 (kjv)). We are sons of God (1 John 3:1-2) and are begotten as such (1 Peter 1:3).

We are the body of Christ; and thus we are sharers in His immortality.

It does not behoove you to believe otherwise; because that would mean that you yourself cannot live for ever.

Jesus Christ = YAHWEH. And he is Lord of all who discern him in truth. Which raises questions about your faith.

It raises questions about your faith. Is the Father YAHWEH? There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Notice that the parables that Jesus spoke were in the unknown tongue Paul writes about later.

I would say that while your interpretation may not be invalid, that the primary interpretation of what "tongues" is, is that it is the spiritual gift give to the early church on the day of Pentecost, derived from the power of the Holy Ghost.
 

justbyfaith

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@Dave L,

How many Lord are there? The answer: one.

How many Gods? The answer: one.

If Jesus is not the Father then explain 1 Corinthians 8:6: it would be saying that Jesus isn't God period; because the Father would be God apart from the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus would be a Lord separate from God the Father.
 
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Dave L

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@Dave L,

How many Lord are there? The answer: one.

How many Gods? The answer: one.

If Jesus is not the Father then explain 1 Corinthians 8:6: it would be saying that Jesus isn't God period; because the Father would be God apart from the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus would be a Lord separate from God the Father.
Scripture reveals one God as three distinct persons during Jesus' baptism.
 
D

Dave L

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There is only one begotten Son of God (John 3:16 (kjv)). We are sons of God (1 John 3:1-2) and are begotten as such (1 Peter 1:3).

We are the body of Christ; and thus we are sharers in His immortality.

It does not behoove you to believe otherwise; because that would mean that you yourself cannot live for ever.



It raises questions about your faith. Is the Father YAHWEH? There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6).



I would say that while your interpretation may not be invalid, that the primary interpretation of what "tongues" is, is that it is the spiritual gift give to the early church on the day of Pentecost, derived from the power of the Holy Ghost.
False definition of Christ = false Christ = idol worship
 

justbyfaith

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Scripture reveals one God as three distinct persons during Jesus' baptism.
Then you must conclude that Jesus isn't God: for there is one God, the Father; and one Lord, Jesus Christ.

If Jesus isn't the Father then He isn't God; He would be a separate Lord..

(I proclaim that He is God).
 
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Dave L

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Then you must conclude that Jesus isn't God: for there is one God, the Father; and one Lord, Jesus Christ.

If Jesus isn't the Father then He isn't God.

(I proclaim that He is).
I must conclude that you think of God materialistically. And do not understand spiritual concepts. The Gadarene Demoniac had 6,000 demons all occupying the same space.
 

justbyfaith

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Why are you so concerned about this if you think I'm wrong? Sounds like your gut is telling you something.
I am feeling nothing in my "gut".

Except the assurance that I know that I am right on this issue.