Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

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Dave L

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according to God, he's a Spirit, John 4:24a. so that want fly.

ERROR, instead of Divine spirit. supportive scripture,
Mark 2:8 "And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?".

You have no clue.

the outcome is this, JESUS is God the Spirit, the Holy Spirit who diversified, or "shared" himself in a nature of flesh. understand, son of man is "spirit", son of God is "flesh". :cool: you still have no clue.

dave, your belif in the trinity is as flakey as the pillsbury doughboy.
Poppin_Fresh_%28Pillsbury_Doughboy%29.jpg
We are speaking of Jesus the man. So it flies very well.
 
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Dave L

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Indeed. Therefore He was not sinning in calling the Pharisees hypocrites; and He was in fact acting according to love. Therefore, since Jesus' behaviour is what defines holiness (not sinning), when He called the Pharisees hypocrites He wasn't sinning, and it is also not sinning for us to do the same when it is appropriate.

But I see that you are not up to the challenge, @Dave L.
But your motive determines whether or not you are sinning. And insults are not grounded in love.
 

101G

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I think truth creates more enemies than friends.
not really, people want the truth, but it hurts, especially when one have been told in ERROR. which makes it's hard to believe someone with the truth speak it.

but there is one thing about the TRUTH that is true. yes it "hurts" some of the time, but a "lie" will kill you all the time.
 
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Dave L

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not really, people want the truth, but it hurts, especially when one have been told in ERROR. which makes it's hard to believe someone with the truth speak it.

but there is one thing about the TRUTH that is true. yes it "hurts" some of the time, but a "lie" will kill you all the time.
If people want the truth, why so few saved?
 

101G

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If people want the truth, why so few saved?
scripture,
1 Timothy 2:3 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God will draw you to him, for we are to answer the call. but how can one answer the call if they has not heard?, and how can they hear without a preacher, THAT IS SENT BY GOD. many "went", only a few are "SENT" by God.

for the apostle Peter said,
2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" many Christian need to read that again.

so how do one make sure their calling and election is sure?

two things,
John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me".

see, don't think. I made that mistake myself. I did what #2 say do,
Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 17:12 "Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

dave, I'm not here to argue, but to enlighten. I once was a tritarian, until I did what the Lord commanded me to do in the first place, "SEARCH" the scriptures. understand, our salvation is sure, if not, neither of us would be here on this fourm. I had to RE-learn from scratch, then and only then did I believed. for I searched out other doctrine, none proved out to be true. I almost gave up, but that's when the Lord is at his best when we are at our worest.

God did me the same way he did Paul, then saul on the road to Damascus. every christian will have a Damascus road experience, meaning a time of change of one's life. I thought I was right when I believed in the trinity, but alway there was scriptures in the back of my head that just didn't add up to the doctrine I so much was holding on to. it was not until God allowed me to be exposed by my ownself, did I began to listen to God, the Lord Jesus.

yes, we all will have our Damascus road experience, it's just a matter of time.

so in conclusion, if you will just consider what I have said in these posts.

Be blessed in the Lord.
 
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Dave L

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scripture,
1 Timothy 2:3 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;

1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

God will draw you to him, for we are to answer the call. but how can one answer the call if they has not heard?, and how can they hear without a preacher, THAT IS SENT BY GOD. many "went", only a few are "SENT" by God.

for the apostle Peter said,
2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" many Christian need to read that again.

so how do one make sure their calling and election is sure?

two things,
John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me".

see, don't think. I made that mistake myself. I did what #2 say do,
Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 17:12 "Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

dave, I'm not here to argue, but to enlighten. I once was a tritarian, until I did what the Lord commanded me to do in the first place, "SEARCH" the scriptures. understand, our salvation is sure, if not, neither of us would be here on this fourm. I had to RE-learn from scratch, then and only then did I believed. for I searched out other doctrine, none proved out to be true. I almost gave up, but that's when the Lord is at his best when we are at our worest.

God did me the same way he did Paul, then saul on the road to Damascus. every christian will have a Damascus road experience, meaning a time of change of one's life. I thought I was right when I believed in the trinity, but alway there was scriptures in the back of my head that just didn't add up to the doctrine I so much was holding on to. it was not until God allowed me to be exposed by my ownself, did I began to listen to God, the Lord Jesus.

yes, we all will have our Damascus road experience, it's just a matter of time.

so in conclusion, if you will just consider what I have said in these posts.

Be blessed in the Lord.
But? Can a false Christ save? If you turn people into idol worshipers, you are only leading them to damnation and not to salvation.
 

justbyfaith

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It has been revealed...
The NAME of Gods Word, IS Jesus.
The Name of Gods Power, IS Christ.

And further...
The NAME:
Of The Lord is Jesus.
Of The Light of God is Jesus.
Of The Holy One of God is Jesus.

Of The Power of God is Christ
Of The Seed of God is Christ.
Of The Spirit that Quickens (ie brings a man into living) is Christ.
Of the WIsdom of God is Christ.

1Jo 5:1, Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.


Act 4:10, Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11, This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
 
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justbyfaith

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But your motive determines whether or not you are sinning. And insults are not grounded in love.

Surely now, you are the judge of motivations...Jesus "insulted" the scribes and Pharisees, calling them what I have called you...and He is love.

But? Can a false Christ save? If you turn people into idol worshipers, you are only leading them to damnation and not to salvation.

Think with me...in John 5:24 and John 10:28 we find that if someone is truly born again, they shall never perish and shall not come into condemnation...therefore the only people that might be led away by false doctrine...to the point of damnation... are those who already are not saved...therefore they are already damned and so no one is leading them into damnation, for they are already there.

Jesus is able to reveal Himself to any and all who will diligently seek Him with all of their hearts (Hebrews 11:6, Jeremiah 29:13).

It is also true that the Jesus that I have set forth in posts #1-#4 (shortcut: Trinity II) is not a false Jesus, and neither is He an idol...

scriptures:

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jhn 10:28, And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Heb 11:6, But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Jer 29:13, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
 
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Dave L

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Surely now, you are the judge of motivations...Jesus "insulted" the scribes and Pharisees, calling them what I have called you...and He is love.



Think with me...in John 5:24 and John 10:28 we find that if someone is truly born again, they shall never perish and shall not come into condemnation...therefore the only people that might be led away by false doctrine...to the point of damnation... are those who already are not saved...therefore they are already damned and so no one is leading them into damnation, for they are already there.

Jesus is able to reveal Himself to any and all who will diligently seek Him with all of their hearts (Hebrews 11:6, Jeremiah 29:13).

It is also true that the Jesus that I have set forth in posts #1-#4 is not a false Jesus, and neither is He an idol...

scriptures:

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Jhn 10:28, And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Heb 11:6, But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Jer 29:13, And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
Jesus said: “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22–23) (KJV 1900)

Jesus is not speaking of trinitarian mainline churches here.
 

Jay Ross

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Jesus said: “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22–23) (KJV 1900)

Jesus is not speaking of trinitarian mainline churches here.

Really, why not?
 

justbyfaith

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@Dave L,

Instead of condemning the teaching of another on the concept of the Trinity, you should set forth your own concept of it.

If yours is superior, it will hold more weight in the minds of the people than would a false concept when the two are compared.

It has been said that the people who are able to discern counterfeits are able to do so because they handle real money all day long.

Therefore, if you think that what I am teaching is a counterfeit, show forth the real money as it is substantiated by holy scripture.
 
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Dave L

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@Dave L,

Instead of condemning the teaching of another on the concept of the Trinity, you should set forth your own concept of it.

If yours is superior, it will hold more weight in the minds of the people than would a false concept when the two are compared.

It has been said that the way the people who are able to discern counterfeits are able to do so because they handle real money all day long.

Therefore, if you think that what I am teaching is a counterfeit, show forth the real money as it is substantiated by holy scripture.
You cannot teach the truth about the trinity without first studying the doctrines. You admit not having done this.
 

Jay Ross

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Because they do not exhibit the profile of the ones he rejects.

Really, are you sure? I find that there are churches and churches even within trinitarian mainline churches that would fit the profile of those that are rejected. Each individual gathering of the Church needs to be evaluated before a blanket statement can be made as you have done.
 

101G

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But? Can a false Christ save? If you turn people into idol worshipers, you are only leading them to damnation and not to salvation.
first thanks for the reply, second, JESUS Save, for Christ die so that JESUS can save us.

Did the Law save?, no, it was only a guide to be saved. and many, even today trust in the Law to save them. that's why the bible is clear,
Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

and God by the apostle Paul certify this statement,
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

Romans 10:19 "But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

Romans 10:20 "But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

Romans 10:21 "But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


Christian need to read these verse over and over again. are you really hearing the Scriptures, or man? one need to read that verse 17 over and over. don't believe in 101G, nor Dave, or any man except JESUS, believe the WORD OF GOD.



Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death".

if you're so sure that your trinity doctrine is so true, why is it conflicting with the scriptures?

ask yourself, if something is suppose to be from God is always changing, and you don't question it, then one is completly decieved.

here's the second most dangerous and most frightening verse, to me, in the bible that support my assessment above,
2 Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

2 Thessalonians 2:10 "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

"this to me is the second most frightening verse in the bible".

2 Thessalonians 2:12 "That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


that's to me is frightening. that's why one need to know that their know knows that they are correct in the scriptures. else damnation. STUDY TO SHOW THYSELF APPROVED UNTO GOD.

that's why I'm here, to witness to the TRUTH. no my truth, but "THE TRUTH" who is Jesus the Christ, God "diversified" in flesh.

I do not deny that Christ came in the flesh as a man. and that Christ is the "ANOTHER" of God in flesh, per Zechariah 13:7. that scripture is my proof that he, God, the Christ came in flesh.

PICJAG
 

justbyfaith

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You cannot teach the truth about the trinity without first studying the doctrines. You admit not having done this.

Where do I admit having not done this. I have studied the doctrines as they exist in the holy scriptures; and I am also aware of what is written in the creeds on the subject.

You appear to want to bear false witness as to my testimony.
 
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brakelite

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Trinity is simply a word that means
Tri - Three
Unity - United

THUS - Three united IN ONE, and the ONE, is God.

I have NO problem whatsoever, in trusting to believe...
Tri - Three; specifically: Father, Son & HS
ARE THREE...UNITED and THEE One God.

My problem WITH Certain Religious Sects, WHO TEACH, "THE TRINITY".... FURTHER..."TEACH" ... WHAT THEY BELIEVE...the "TRI" of the "TRINITY" 'IS NOT'.

In a manner of TEACHING, "THEY" express...
The "TRI" ARE NOT "each other"....BUT that the "TRI" ARE "EACH" the same ONE GOD.

Personally, I find the "separation" of EACH of the "TRI", FALSE.

Scripture to my finding....NEVER "teaches" the "Separation" of the "TRI".

I have no problem using the word TRINITY, in regard TO: the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

I futher do not believe, they ARE EVER "separate"...one APArT from the OTHER, thus I do not Agree with "THAT" particular explanation.....

NOR, do I believe, "THOSE" who ADHERE to THAT particular "explanation" of HOW THEY VIEW and UNDERSTAND the Trinity....
That THEY, have a copyright or patent ON word "TRINITY".

Me? The word trinity, means, Three, Father, Son, Holy Spirit "ARE" ONE united GOD....and NEVER "Separated".

God Bless,
Taken
You are correct, that the indivisible concept of Trinity is vital to the doctrine. Which is why I disagree with it. If the Son did not fully die, then there was no full propitiation. All we have is a human sacrifice...a sacrifice of someone I unequal to the law... And a part of that someone remaining alive as part of the Trinity. So the Father sacrificed nothing. He didn't really give His Son at all. The wages of sin, death, that is full and complete separation from God which is the sinners destiny, was not experienced by Christ at all. We are still in our sins.
 
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brakelite

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It burdens me that many on this forum would have have been victims of the wicked State for holding false beliefs. But as Paul says, God's wrath on false teachers slumbers not. And he used the wicked State to preserve the truth just as he did in OT Israel. Most were wicked but preserved the truth of the Law for future generations by killing off heretics.
You have bought into the Catholic lie. Those who were persecuted, such as the Waldenses, we the ones preserving the truth in the face of Antichrist's heresies.
And you have only the word of the Antichrist that Arius taught error because all his writings were destroyed or likely altered to suit the church.
 

justbyfaith

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if you're so sure that your trinity doctrine is so true, why is it conflicting with the scriptures?

My Trinity doctrine (as it is presented in posts #1-#4...shortcut: Trinity II) does not conflict with the scriptures; and is also compatible with Oneness doctrine to show that the true Trinity is indeed faithful and sound doctrine for those who have been baptized in Jesus' Name.