Man made Bible

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

(SwampFox;4293)
Ah but we mess everything up to be honest. God tried giving us the commandments verbally as we see from the very beginning of time, but that didn't work either; there's a reason Jesus quoted from the Old Testament; in fact, there's reasons. Scholars will have you believe that the writings were edited here and there and this and that was inserted. Again, if you want to believe them, then do so, but I'll stick with the all-knowing guy myself. What the Catholics do and what they believe is a result of all sorts of conferences and writings of man. Again, it all pretty much goes back to my initial statement. Either you believe God loves us enough (afterall, he did give us his Son to die for us) to make sure that what gets passed down does, or he doesn't. That's a personal matter that no amount of study in done by this world can ever prove or disprove. I Corinthians 1:27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; The so called "higher critics" have been at it for hundreds of years now and they still cannot find consensus. With all my faults - I've been on this Earth barely a 5th of a decade now - I know what I need to know and what was ordained by God rests in this letter to you, myself, and everyone else that lays right besides me as I type this.
I absolutely agree. Either you believe or you don't. The Bible was inspired by God. He meant for His Word to be preserved in the Bible and it has been. A lot of people have slaughtered the true Word of God with their many translations. The KJV is the only reliable Bible. I also grew up in a catholic home but have since escaped that horrible institution. The catholic Bible is way different from the christian Bible, as are the catholic beliefs. I have posted my views on this in other forums here and do not choose to repeat myself so I'm not saying anything more unless asked to.

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

Please provide some links to the other threads so I can read what these differences are.

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

Interesting:
What is the difference between Protestant and Catholic Bibles?At the time the Christian Bible was being formed, a Greek translation of Jewish Scripture, the Septuagint, was in common use and Christians adopted it as the Old Testament of the Christian Bible. However, around 100 A.D., Jewish rabbis revised their Scripture and established an official canon of Judaism which excluded some portions of the Greek Septuagint. The material excluded was a group of 15 late Jewish books, written during the period 170 B.C. to 70 A.D., that were not found in Hebrew versions of the Jewish Scripture. Christians did not follow the revisions of Judaism and continued to use the text of the Septuagint.Protestant reformers in the 1500s decided to follow the official canon of Judaism for the Old Testament rather than the Septuagint, and the excluded material was placed in a separate section of the Bible called the Apocrypha. Protestant Bibles included the Apocrypha until the mid 1800s, but it was eventually dropped from most Protestant editions.The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches continue to base their Old Testament on the Septuagint. The result is that these versions of the the Bible have more Old Testament books than Protestant versions. Catholic Old Testaments include 1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), additions to Esther, and Susanna and Bel and the Dragon which are included in Daniel. Orthodox Old Testaments include these plus 1st and 2nd Esdras, Prayer of Manasseh, Psalm 151 and 3rd Maccabees.The Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox New Testaments are identical.

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

Some of my views on catholics are in the What is the right religion? forum. I am new here and haven't yet had time to go into detail but I will eventually. I would also like to add that those books were excluded from the Bible because they were not inspired by God, like the present books of the Bible are.

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

Religion examples of differences in Bible Examples of differences in Ten Commandments -------------------------------------------------------------------------Jewish 24 booksTorah (Pentateuch): first 5 books - Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Number, DeuteronomyProphets: Former (4) - Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings - and Latter (4) - (most use this order, but some do not) Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Minor Prophets (usually a single unit, including Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi)Writings (11) - (usual order, but not always) Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Song of Solomon, Ruth, Lamentations Ecclesiastes, Esther, Daniel, Ezra, Nehemiah, Chronicles 1st Commandment: I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery (or bondage). ------------------------------------------------------------------------Protestant Old Testament (39) and New Testament (27), for a total of 66.Protestant religions generally use the Hebrew Bible as the Old Testament, but the books are ordered differently (for example, reversing the order of Prophets-Writings), and some are divided, so the total number of books in the Protestant Old Testament is 39:Historical (17)Poetical (5)Prophetical (17)The New Testament consists of 27 books:Gospels (4)ActsLetters (21)Revelation 1st Commandment: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Catholic 73 books in total:In addition to those books of the Bible accepted by Protestants, includes (in response to the Protestant Reformation, adopted at the Council of Trent in 1546):TobitJudithGreek additions to EstherWisdom of SolomonSirachBaruchLetter of Jeremiah3 Greek additions to Daniel

rayer of Azariah & the Song of the Three JewsSusannaBel and the Dragon1 and 2 Maccabees 1st Commandment: I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. 9th and 10th Commandments both relate to coveting, while others consider these to be just one Commandment, the 10th -------------------------------------------------------------------------Anglican Accepts only the Jewish canon and the New Testaments as authoritative, but also accepts segments of the apocryphal writings in the lectionary and liturgy. At one time all copies of the King James Version of 1611 included the Apocrypha between the Old and New Testaments------------------------------------------------------------------------ Greek Orthodox Accepts all the books of the Bible accepted by the Catholic Church, plus:1 EsdrasPrayer of ManassehPsalm 1513 MaccabeesOther Eastern religions accept other books, too, such as 4 Maccabees Treats worshiping other gods and making images of the Deity as the 1st and 2nd Commandments, while Jewish, Catholic, and Lutherans put these together in a single Commandment (2nd for Jewish, part of the 1st for Catholics) ------------------------------------------------------------------------Ethiopic church Largest Bible of all, with 81 books in its Bible.Old Testament includes the books of the Hebrew Bible, plus all the deuterocanonical books listed above, plus:Jubilees1 EnochJoseph ben Gorion's (Josippon's) medieval history of the Jews and other nations.New Testament ("broader") includes 35 books. In addition to the usual 27:4 sections of church order from a compilation called Sinodos2 sections from the Ethiopic Book of the CovenantEthiopic ClementEthiopic DidascaliaNew Testament ("narrower") includes only the 27 books, but the Old Testament books are divided differently so they make up 54 books instead of the usual 46.

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

(Jenn4God;4391)
Some of my views on catholics are in the What is the right religion? forum. I am new here and haven't yet had time to go into detail but I will eventually. I would also like to add that those books were excluded from the Bible because they were not inspired by God, like the present books of the Bible are.
ROFLIs that so? How do you know? As far as I can tell the difference between the catholic and christian bible is because of the jews! Isn't that a treat?

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

I know because nowhere in those books does it say they are inspired! Have you read them? Have you actually read both Bibles? I have. I can post diffences on here until my hands go numb but what would be the point when all it takes for you to get the same information is a few Google searches? If you are truely interested you would research the info yourself instead of expecting me to set all my hard earned work right in your lap.

pointer · Nov 30, 2006

(skeptik;4383)
The laws are the same. The gospels are the same. Genesis is the same. How did protestants decide which books to take out?
They chose what seemed to be right to them, just as everyone else does.
I just say that if you regard a book as the timeless, inequivocal word of g*d then you can't pick and choose!
So would you prefer it if people advocated stoning?
You can't decide which parts are to be followed and which not without acknowledging that the book is deeply flawed.
So you think the Bible is deeply flawed. Why are you here?
I know that the bible is not the word of g*d, but the word of men. Just like every other holy book out there. They do because they like some parts, and others not.What part of "Thou shalt not kill" don't this people understand?
What does that have to do with you? Is it not rather high-handed and absurd interference to lecture others, whacking them over the head with a book that is not believed in? Are you quite sure you think that the Bible is not the Word of God?
If you quote Leviticus 18:22 to say that homosexuals are an abomination, then you better not cut your hair or eat pork and shellfish.
What business is that of yours?

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

So you think the Bible is deeply flawed. Why are you here?What does that have to do with you? Is it not rather high-handed and absurd interference to lecture others, whacking them over the head with a book that is not believed in? Are you quite sure you think that the Bible is not the Word of God?-------------------------------------------------------------------------GOOD POINT

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

(pointer;4395)
They chose what seemed to be right to them, just as everyone else does.
That I can agree with. "Inspired by g*d" is another thing...(pointer;4395)
So would you prefer it if people advocated stoning?
I would prefer if people were consistent. I'll say it over and over: if the bible is the word of g*d then why blatantly disregard so many of its laws? (pointer;4395)
So you think the Bible is deeply flawed. Why are you here?
To talk about it. Said so in my first posts. (pointer;4395)
What does that have to do with you? Is it not rather high-handed and absurd interference to lecture others, whacking them over the head with a book that is not believed in? Are you quite sure you think that the Bible is not the Word of God?
Please rephrase this I didn't quite understand it.(pointer;4395)
What business is that of yours?
It is not. I lead a good life, I try to live by the teachings christ, I pray every night and every morning. I don't go to church. All good things. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of many christians, who scream at the top of their lungs that the bible is the word of g*d, timeless, inequivocal, from cover to cover and no exceptions, and still disregard all the parts they don't like. I ask once again: if you think the bible is the word of g*d, and the laws he wants you to follow are laid there. Then why don't you stone people working on the sabbath? Its a simple question.

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

(skeptik;4398)
I ask once again: if you think the bible is the word of g*d, and the laws he wants you to follow are laid there. Then why don't you stone people working on the sabbath? Its a simple question.
Where does God tell us to stone people working on the sabbath? God tells us to love everyone as He loves us. People have free will to do as they please and if they don't follow God's laws then we are not the ones to judge them. God is. If the Bible is not inspired by God then how do you explain all the prophecy? How could all those people possibly have known what was to come in the future? They didn't. They were inspired by God to make record of that information. I personally do not throw out parts of the Bible I don't like. Like I said, I have read the excluded books, I simply agree that they do not belong in the Bible because they are not inspired by God.

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

(Jenn4God;4399)
Where does God tell us to stone people working on the sabbath? God tells us to love everyone as He loves us.
You have read both bibles cover to cover? Thats interesting... You must've missed Exodus 31:14"You shall keep the sabbath, because it is holy for you; every one who profanes it shall be put to death; whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."(Jenn4God;4399)
I personally do not throw out parts of the Bible I don't like. Like I said, I have read the excluded books, I simply agree that they do not belong in the Bible because they are not inspired by God.
Are exodus, leviticus and deuteronomy exluded from your bible? Please see the "Should we interpret the bible literally thread" for more fun bible quotes.

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

(skeptik;4400)
You have read both bibles cover to cover? Thats interesting... You must've missed Exodus 31:14"You shall keep the sabbath, because it is holy for you; every one who profanes it shall be put to death; whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people."
Perfect example! God isn't telling us to stone people. He says they will be put to death and the soul cut off from it's people. Are you aware of the different types of death? There are three types of death...#1 Physical Death--when the spirit is separated from the body.#2 Spiritual Death--when the spirit is separated from God. (This is what happened when Adam and Eve sinned. The only way they could ever be united with God again is to be spiritually "born again")#3 The Second Death--whena person is physically and spiritually separated from God forever. (The lost person is physically resurected to stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement, and then cast into the lake of fire to be separated from God forever.)That verse you quoted is referring to the spiritual death.

pointer · Nov 30, 2006

(skeptik;4398)
That I can agree with. "Inspired by g*d" is another thing.
Do you say the same to Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs and every other sort of person who believes in a 'scripture'? Or is it just Christians?
I would prefer if people were consistent.
But do you have the basic manners to answer a question? Maybe you might have a better case if you did.
I'll say it over and over: if the bible is the word of g*d then why blatantly disregard so many of its laws?
What business is it of a pagan?
To talk about it. Said so in my first posts.
You talked about the Catholic Bible, and Councils.
It is not.
So it is not your business. But you are still here!

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

Ok, for the purpose of debate, lets agree (I don't)Please explain some of these

euteronomy 22:13-21[13]"If any man takes a wife, and goes in to her, and then spurns her,[14] and charges her with shameful conduct, and brings an evil name upon her, saying, `I took this woman, and when I came near her, I did not find in her the tokens of virginity,'[15] then the father of the young woman and her mother shall take and bring out the tokens of her virginity to the elders of the city in the gate;[16] and the father of the young woman shall say to the elders, `I gave my daughter to this man to wife, and he spurns her;[17] and lo, he has made shameful charges against her, saying, "I did not find in your daughter the tokens of virginity." And yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity.' And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city.[18] Then the elders of that city shall take the man and whip him;[19] and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver, and give them to the father of the young woman, because he has brought an evil name upon a virgin of Israel; and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.[20] But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman,[21] then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death with stones, because she has wrought folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; so you shall purge the evil from the midst of you. Here's something interesting found in Numbers 15:32-35, regarding the sabbath:15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness,they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.15:33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him untoMoses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.15:34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared whatshould be done to him.15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely putto death: all the congregation shall stone him with stoneswithout the camp. I have to run out now. But these two examples should give you enough

Jenn4God · Nov 30, 2006

Those verses were specific to the people they were intended for. God does not tell us all to do this to all people who fit this situation. Also these were things told to the jews, not the gentiles.

HammerStone · Nov 30, 2006

And other historical accounts speak of this.
I'm very familiar with the historical evidence of Jesus and none of it whatsoever tells us about this law really. There are really only three "historical" accounts of Jesus if you want to believe the secular account; the watered down version of Josephus's work, Annals by Tacitus, and some obscure references to a Jesus that was hung in some of the Sanhedrin accounts of the Jews.
Up until then there were a myriad of gospels going around, telling the story of our savior from many points of view, but many facts about the life of christ on this earth and what he preached are not disputed. I dislike the editorial censorship of all the other ideas that were in play. And the subsequent destruction of them.I specially dislike the "laws" put into the bible and how some people seem pretty comfortable quoting the bible to say that this or that is prohibited, and break a considerable amount of impossible laws themselves, breaking the fundamental one.
In other words, it's personal opinion correct? I'm just curious given your name. You've come here to discuss the Bible and that's fine but I'm trying to drive at a point here that it's a matter of faith. You have faith that all this stuff was inserted along the way and Jesus was here to teach love only. That's your choice. However, if God made the effort to send us Christ (think John 3:16), I'm pretty sure he'd make sure that there would be more than enough information available to those who will listen. God doesn't do things halfway, I assure you of that. The law that God laid down was a righteous law. When Jesus came he came to fulfill (Matthew 5) and he did by dying on the cross for every transgression of that law that we'll ever commit. All we have to do is truly seek forgiveness.

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

(Jenn4God;4407)
Those verses were specific to the people they were intended for. God does not tell us all to do this to all people who fit this situation. Also these were things told to the jews, not the gentiles.
At least the first one says: if a woman is not a virgin when she marries she should be stoned. Looks pretty general to me.You may be right on the second one. Still, dosen't quite fit the bill of an all loving g*d does it?

skeptik · Nov 30, 2006

(SwampFox;4408)
I'm very familiar with the historical evidence of Jesus and none of it whatsoever tells us about this law really. There are really only three "historical" accounts of Jesus if you want to believe the secular account; the watered down version of Josephus's work, Annals by Tacitus, and some obscure references to a Jesus that was hung in some of the Sanhedrin accounts of the Jews.
I´m not talking about purely secular evidence though. As I stated, many gospels speak of the same things only from different points of view. They're human writings that do not pretend to be much more than that. Stories of the life of christ as they saw them. There is some bias in there and one can see their personalities in their writing. There is truth in the general sense of all these gospels. (SwampFox;4408)
I'm just curious given your name. You've come here to discuss the Bible and that's fine but I'm trying to drive at a point here that it's a matter of faith.
Of course it is. I am not arguing about faith, but blind faith in things that are not attributable to g*d is another thing. And hypocrisy is quite another one also.(SwampFox;4408)
The law that God laid down was a righteous law. When Jesus came he came to fulfill (Matthew 5) and he did by dying on the cross for every transgression of that law that we'll ever commit. All we have to do is truly seek forgiveness.
So you are saying that you can deliberately break laws because Jesus died for your sins? Do you regret not stoning non-virgins and sabbath-day workers?

HammerStone · Nov 30, 2006

I´m not talking about purely secular evidence though. As I stated, many gospels speak of the same things only from different points of view. They're human writings that do not pretend to be much more than that. Stories of the life of christ as they saw them. There is some bias in there and one can see their personalities in their writing. There is truth in the general sense of all these gospels.
That is, of course, if you follow the relevance of these obscure books found in locations such as the deserts of Egypt. The books that are in the Bible have found their way in there for a reason - the very same reason that sent Christ to die on the cross for us. Frankly speaking, I just don't see how you can believe the part and not the whole. Again, why would God send us his only begotten son and then not ensure the protection of everything he stood for? I'm using the same loving, caring God definition that you're using and it's just not adding up.
Of course it is. I am not arguing about faith, but blind faith in things that are not attributable to g*d is another thing. And hypocrisy is quite another one also.
"Blind faith" is a misnomer IMHO, though we do use it often; how you can be blind to what you cannot see anyway? Your opinion of blind faith may differ greatly from mine and your use of it based solely on your opinion. We can argue all day long about that. There's nothing hypocritical about following the law. I am aware that when I muck things up, I can be forgiven for the mistake(s) I made. The so called "law of love" is often employed to mean, frankly speaking, that as long as I "love" I can do whatever the heck I want. The problem with the law, before Christ, was that people became so obssessed with following it that they got away from a relationship with God and were more concerned about carrying the law out.
So you are saying that you can deliberately break laws because Jesus died for your sins? Do you regret not stoning non-virgins and sabbath-day workers?
Nope. We have the ability to be forgiven when we do break them; God is the judge of us on that. The entire object is that you do your best to follow them and as God acknowledges, we're not perfect and we have Christ for that. I'm not their judge nor can I carry out the penalties on my own even if I were their judge. I'm sure, as well, that you're also familiar with the witness requirement? Salvation is a personal matter.

Man made Bible

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