Who is the Whore of babylon

Marymog said:

Revelations was written 1900+ years ago. Do you feel that you are going to discern something from it or have a better understanding of it that no one else has had in the last 1900 years?

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Are you suggesting she won't?

gadar perets said:

No thanks. I am not interested in any RCC POV. I came out of that organization a long time ago.

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Thank you for turning me down. I hate to publically embarrass people, however, I also hate it when people twist scripture and articulate false teachings that have been deemed heretical.

You have made it clear you are only interested in one mans POV....Your own! Good luck with that.

Mary

Nancy said:

"Sooooo are you suggesting that someday, when SG’s faith is strong enough, God will open @Soverign Grace eyes to His truth or the Truth of Revelation?
I would say this should be a "yes" to all Christians. We cannot please Him without faith, and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. I believe He will only allow the Truth to come through when He sees fit as, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now." John 16:12. And, correspond that verse with
Hebrews 5:11-14
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing…" AND Mark 4:33
"And with many such parables spake he the word unto them, as they were able to hear it."
We do not see all things the same way at the same time. It depends on how much we empty ourselves to Him so He can fill us. IMO.

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Thank you Nancy.

Jesus said if I have faith as small as a mustard seed nothing will be impossible for me.

It seems to me that you are saying that SG's faith is currently smaller than a mustard seed therefor it is not possible for his/her eyes to be open to His truth or the Truth of Revelation?

Mary

PS....Your Matthew 9:29 reference in post #212 has to do with blind men that He healed. In context Jesus asked them if they BELIEVED he could cure their blindness. He didn't ask if they believe in Him as their Lord and Savior. That passage shows that they had FAITH that he could heal their blindness. It DOES NOT talk about having faith that He is the son of God or their Savior or even their faith in God.

gadar perets said:

Are you suggesting she won't?

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I am confident that she will not discern anything new from it or have a better understanding of it than anyone else has had in the last 1900 years.

Are you suggesting she will? And if she does, will you accept it as God inspired?

Curious Mary

Marymog said:

Thank you Nancy.

Jesus said if I have faith as small as a mustard seed nothing will be impossible for me.

It seems to me that you are saying that SG's faith is currently smaller than a mustard seed therefor it is not possible for his/her eyes to be open to His truth or the Truth of Revelation?

Mary

PS....Your Matthew 9:29 reference in post #212 has to do with blind men that He healed. In context Jesus asked them if they BELIEVED he could cure their blindness. He didn't ask if they believe in Him as their Lord and Savior. That passage shows that they had FAITH that he could heal their blindness. It DOES NOT talk about having faith that He is the son of God or their Savior or even their faith in God.

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"It seems to me that you are saying that SG's faith is currently smaller than a mustard seed therefor it is not possible for his/her eyes to be open to His truth or the Truth of Revelation?"

When still sucking her thumb and on the milk of the word, I would expect her to grow in her understanding of her faith and how to apply it, but not all at once!

"PS....Your Matthew 9:29 reference in post #212 has to do with blind men that He healed. In context Jesus asked them if they BELIEVED he could cure their blindness. He didn't ask if they believe in Him as their Lord and Savior. That passage shows that they had FAITH that he could heal their blindness. It DOES NOT talk about having faith that He is the son of God or their Savior or even their faith in God."

"According to your faith … - That is, you have “believed” that you could be healed, be healed accordingly. Your faith covered the whole extent of the work respecting my power and the absolute restoration to sight, and that power is exerted accordingly, and your sight is restored. So with the sinner. If he has faith in the Son of God; if he believes that he is able and willing to save him: and if he earnestly desires to be saved, the power of Jesus will be put forth to the full extent of his faith. " (bold mine)

Matthew 9:29 - Then He touched... - Verse-by-Verse Commentary

Marymog said:

Thank you for turning me down. I hate to publically embarrass people, however, I also hate it when people twist scripture and articulate false teachings that have been deemed heretical.

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Deemed false and heretical by a heretical "church". BTW, since you brought up something you hate, one of the things I hate is a proud, know-it-all, woman.

You have made it clear you are only interested in one mans POV....Your own!

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No, it just the RCC POV that I am not interested in.

Marymog said:

I am confident that she will not discern anything new from it or have a better understanding of it than anyone else has had in the last 1900 years.

Are you suggesting she will? And if she does, will you accept it as God inspired?

Curious Mary

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I am suggesting she can. Why do you limit how and through whom YHWH reveals truth? He also taught me certain truths about Revelation that no one else was teaching at that time.

brakelite said:

The Son of God was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, and He condemned sin in the flesh, and yes, there was indeed the possibility of failure, because He was made completely in the likeness of HIs brethren.

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The Son of God was born of the sinful virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit both in flesh and soul after the likeness of God's own sinless holy and glorious nature and character. Jesus is therefore the "Second Adam-Man"; no second first man-adam.

Jesus the "Second Adam", "made in the likeness of his brethren" after the likeness of God's own sinless holy and glorious nature and character, "for / because of sin, condemned sin in the flesh" started with the failure of "the first Adam" as well as continued by his posterity.

In the case of the first Adam "'the possibility of failure'" indeed realised. In the case of the Second Adam the impossibility of failure indeed realised.

gadar perets said:

You break a basic rule of Biblical interpretation by reading the Son into John 1:1-4. Something Tyndale and other translators refused to do in versions preceding the KJV. Your eisegesis creates major confusion and false teachings about the Son. I refuse to use that method.

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WRONG.

YOUR problem is that that John doesn't stop at verse 1. He continues for SEVENTEEN more verses in his description.
Let's jump to verse 14 . . .

John 1:14-18
And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw HIS glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only SON,
full of grace and truth.
John testified to him and cried out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘The one who is coming after me ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’”
From his fullness we have all received, grace in place of grace,
because while the law was given through Moses, grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
No one has ever seen God. The only SON, God, who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

a. So - The WORD was God (John 1:1).
b. The WORD became flesh and they saw HIS glory (John 1:14) . . .
c. . . . which is the glory as the Father's only SON (John 1:14)
d. John testified to the WORD/Son (John 1:15)
e. He is identified as Jesus Christ (John 1:17)
f. NOBODY has ever seen God except for the SON, whom we just saw by the previous verses is Jesus Christ, the WORD, who IS God (John 1:18).

You LOSE this debate because you cherry-pick Scripture instead of reading it in its FULL CONTEXT.
BAD idea . . .

gadar perets said:

I knew exactly why I came out of the RCC. I know exactly what her false doctrines are. She is an organization pregnant with idolatry, murders, and sexual immorality among the clergy and the laity. If I was ignorant of all that I would never have come out just like you.

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Not only do you NOT know why you left the Catholic Church - you don't know anything ABOUT the Catholic Church or its teachings.
This is woefully-evident in our conversation . . .

Nancy said:

"It seems to me that you are saying that SG's faith is currently smaller than a mustard seed therefor it is not possible for his/her eyes to be open to His truth or the Truth of Revelation?"

When still sucking her thumb and on the milk of the word, I would expect her to grow in her understanding of her faith and how to apply it, but not all at once!

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Thank you Nancy.

Who decides WHEN she has completed "her understanding" of our faith (Christianity) and "how to apply" that faith? Who decides when she is done "sucking her thumb" and has become as mature as you or me?

If you, as a mature Christian, have a disagreement on doctrine/interpretation of Scripture with her how do we decide who has the correct doctrine/interpretation of Scripture?

Bible study Mary

gadar perets said:

Deemed false and heretical by a heretical "church". BTW, since you brought up something you hate, one of the things I hate is a proud, know-it-all, woman.

No, it just the RCC POV that I am not interested in.

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Dear friend....Your false teaching on this matter has been deemed heretical by more men and Churches than just the Catholic Church soooo you loose that round also...

I only hate what God hates. I now see you are not only anti-Catholic but anti-confident woman also. I don't think God hates confident women.

You are clearly against the CC POV in this matter and their are other denominational churches that mirror the CC in this matter sooooo you are obviously "not interested" in their POV also.

Mary

gadar perets said:

I am suggesting she can. Why do you limit how and through whom YHWH reveals truth? He also taught me certain truths about Revelation that no one else was teaching at that time.

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I don't limit anyone, God does. For if we all were able to discern anything new from Scripture or have a better understanding of it than what has bee taught in the last 1900 years then all of us would be right which makes all but one of us wrong because Scripture does NOT have multiple truths.

No, He didn't teach you anything that no one else was teaching at the time. Someone taught it to you....not Him. It was probably the one He kicked out of heaven. There is only one Truth and you are not the one God has chosen to discern that Truth. If you believe you have been chosen by Him to discern that Truth you should re-evaluate you entire life.

Mary

Marymog said:

Thank you Nancy.

Who decides WHEN she has completed "her understanding" of our faith (Christianity) and "how to apply" that faith? Who decides when she is done "sucking her thumb" and has become as mature as you or me?

If you, as a mature Christian, have a disagreement on doctrine/interpretation of Scripture with her how do we decide who has the correct doctrine/interpretation of Scripture?

Bible study Mary

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"Who decides WHEN she has completed "her understanding" of our faith (Christianity) and "how to apply" that faith? Who decides when she is done "sucking her thumb" and has become as mature as you or me?"
Well, certainly not you or the CC.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Phil 1:6
Seems clear it is a process.

"If you, as a mature Christian, have a disagreement on doctrine/interpretation of Scripture with "her how do we decide who has the correct doctrine/interpretation of Scripture?

Oh wow, lol...there is not one person, that I know of YET, on this forum, or in my local body, who I agree with 100% ...in some areas, yes, but others, not at all BUT-we have the core who is Christ in common and that is okay for me, if coming across what to me is total heresy and anti-Christ...I will comment and, will walk away from the convo if it brings nothing but strife, judgment, and sarcasm.
I do not believe ANY man, denom. has ALL truth...yet. Perhaps just a remnant within all the splinters, yes, EVEN the CC!
In His Name,
nancy

Nancy said:

"Who decides WHEN she has completed "her understanding" of our faith (Christianity) and "how to apply" that faith? Who decides when she is done "sucking her thumb" and has become as mature as you or me?"
Well, certainly not you or the CC.

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I agree with you Nancy. Did you intentionally leave yourself out as a person who decides or are you suggesting that you can decide?

Based on your answer is appears you have not thought your theory out to it's logical end. Back to the drawing board?

Mary

Nancy said:

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Phil 1:6
Seems clear it is a process.

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CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT....Please put that passage in CONTEXT and you will see it has NOTHING to do with your theory.

I could easily prove to you that Peter is Satan if I thought you were ignorant enough to take Scripture out of context. I know your not ignorant of Scripture so please don't treat me like I am ignorant of Scripture.

Bible study Mary

Marymog said:

I agree with you Nancy. Did you intentionally leave yourself out as a person who decides or are you suggesting that you can decide?

Based on your answer is appears you have not thought your theory out to it's logical end. Back to the drawing board?

Mary

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It is not FOR me to decide! How dare I ever judge another's walk.
It sure seems that The Holy Spirit is very absent in this convo. And, yes...it is "back to the drawing board daily with me. I am growing and can see clearly what I was for most of my life and what I have become through Christ...polor opposites for the very large part...I do not think we will ever stop growing.
Ya know, the Pharisees thought they too had ALL the truth...

Nancy said:

"If you, as a mature Christian, have a disagreement on doctrine/interpretation of Scripture with "her how do we decide who has the correct doctrine/interpretation of Scripture?

Oh wow, lol...there is not one person, that I know of YET, on this forum, or in my local body, who I agree with 100% ...in some areas, yes, but others, not at all BUT-we have the core who is Christ in common and that is okay for me, if coming across what to me is total heresy and anti-Christ...I will comment and, will walk away from the convo if it brings nothing but strife, judgment, and sarcasm.
I do not believe ANY man, denom. has ALL truth...yet. Perhaps just a remnant within all the splinters, yes, EVEN the CC!
In His Name,
nancy

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Hi Nancy,

It is not a person that we have to %100 agree with. It is the Church which is, as you know, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Scripture can help us out on how to handle that situation instead of just 'walking away from the conversation' and letting the person believe their "total heresy". Take a look at Matthew 18:17

Bible Study Mary

Nancy said:

It is not FOR me to decide! How dare I ever judge another's walk.
It sure seems that The Holy Spirit is very absent in this convo. And, yes...it is "back to the drawing board daily with me. I am growing and can see clearly what I was for most of my life and what I have become through Christ...polor opposites for the very large part...I do not think we will ever stop growing.
Ya know, the Pharisees thought they too had ALL the truth...

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Thank you for your honesty and making your original statement more clear.

I am not sure what the Holy Spirit has to do with our conversation. You were using scripture to bolster a theory and I pointed out holes in your theory. I just want you to always be ready to give an answer to every woman that ask you a reason of the hope that is in you. (1 Peter 3:15). You were unable to do that in this case. I thought I was helping you.

Mary

Marymog said:

Hi Nancy,

It is not a person that we have to %100 agree with. It is the Church which is, as you know, the pillar and foundation of truth.

Scripture can help us out on how to handle that situation instead of just 'walking away from the conversation' and letting the person believe their "total heresy". Take a look at Matthew 18:17

Bible Study Mary

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Context B.S. Mary
Actually, it is The Holy Spirit who brings us into ALL truth...as we grow in Him...the more of ourselves we let go of, the more is revealed to us and the more He fills us with His desires...at least that has been my awesome experience, and continues to be. BTW-I'm Sola Scriptura THE WORD LIVES!
I am happy for you that you have so much head knowledge, maybe one day it will come in handy when it reaches your heart.
Matthew 18:17 IMHO is not something that can be applied to an online forum. I believe that is something that should be applied to a local body, they know the person who would need to "be put out" a whole lot better than you. If the person repents, the local body they belong to will bring them back into the fold. We should never judge another's growth, nor criticize their beliefs as, they are learning and, if they are given the grace to be humble enough...they will learn as they grow.
What happened to encouragement???