What Is Church?

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marksman

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Having just completed a 12 month study of the New Testament church and noticing some of the comments about church here, I am compelled to ask the question "What is Church?"Is it a building where one goes to sing songs and pray and listen?Is it a place where young people are entertained?Should we sing hymns in church or songs?Should we have an organ or modern musical instraments to provide music?Why are most churches spectator sports not every member contributing?Does the true church meet in homes?Is Sunday morning Biblical?Should we meet daily for meals as they did in the New Testament?Should we divide up into different age and gender groups?Is church about us or about God?Should we build the church or the Kingdom of GOd?Is present day church in many cases very shallow?Is today's church more about religion and ritual than relationships?Why are only 1% of churches growing?Is there any scriptual authority for a paid pastor brought in from another town? (if you think there is please supply verses).Why do most churches spend so little time in corporate prayer?Why do most people (in my country anyway) consider the church irrelevant?Why do we delight in shooting the wounded?Over to you.
 

followerofchrist

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As an answer to your main question,church is not a building as we see it today. The church is the believers in christ!!
 

bigape

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Hi marksman You asked......“Is there any scriptual authority for a paid pastor brought in from another town? (if you think there is please supply verses).” The answer is “yes”, and here are just two passages.-------------------------------------------------- 1 Corinthians 9:4-14V.4 Have we not power to eat and to drink? V.5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and [as] the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? V.6 Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? V.7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? V.8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? V.9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? V.10 Or saith he [it] altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, [this] is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. V.11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things? V.12 If others be partakers of [this] power over you, [are] not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ. V.13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? V.14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.-------------------------------------------------- Galatians 6:6-8V.6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate(share with) unto him that teacheth in all good things. V.7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. V.8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
 

Wakka

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Why, we're the church. The building itself is nothing more than a place of gathering and fellowship.
 

TallMan

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(marksman;50512)
Having just completed a 12 month study of the New Testament church and noticing some of the comments about church here, I am compelled to ask the question "What is Church?" . . .
I know a church in Melbourne like the one you just read about in the New Teatament.I hope you at least visit.
 

setfree

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Great questions! Ones that I have often ask myself. Mostly because what you ask is really what you are seeing today. I have been on a year and a half search for truth. I am looking forward to hearing what people post on this thread.So far .......I believe that a church is a called out people to represent God on earth. We are ambassaders for Christ. We are to go out unto all the world to influence all for Christ. We are not the building as a concrete or metal building, but we are the building that Christ is the cornerstone. The true church is built upon the cornerstone and foundation that the apostles laid....this truth I as still seeking! I do not see in scripture where we are to entertain anyone...children or adults.What I read in scriptures is that we are to enter into his gates with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise. We are to gather together to praise and worship an awesome God! We can sing about him or too him, I believe either one is pleasing to God....But when we gather together we should be seeking GOd, truth....HIS WAYS! When we look into the doors of heaven we see the angels praising him all the time HOLY...HOLY....HOLY.Well that covers the first three I will let some others respond and try to find scriptures to back up what I have posted. I know I have read this in God's word.
 

marksman

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Bigape, the verses you quoted have nothing to do with the leadership of the local congregation. 1 Cor 9 sets out the rights of an apostle who is travelling. He establishes new churches and then hands them over to Elders, or pays return visits to churches he has established.Galations 6 is addressed to all the members of the body of Christ and it is about doing good to everyone. It has nothing to do with leadership of the local congregation. Crooner, the verse says "where two or three are gathered together in my name he is in the midst" (Matt 18:20). In other words, that is all you need to be church. Tallman, I have looked up the website you listed but I could not find any details about where their churches are.
So far .......I believe that a church is a called out people to represent God on earth. We are ambassaders for Christ. We are to go out unto all the world to influence all for Christ. We are not the building as a concrete or metal building, but we are the building that Christ is the cornerstone. The true church is built upon the cornerstone and foundation that the apostles laid....this truth I as still seeking!
Quite in incisive comment!! My church is called "Cornerstone" on the basis that Jesus is the chief cornerstone(Ephesians 2:20). We are having dialogue about going out and transforming the town where we are, rather than sitting on the premises expecting people to come to us.Keep the ideas coming.
 

jtartar

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(marksman;50512)
Having just completed a 12 month study of the New Testament church and noticing some of the comments about church here, I am compelled to ask the question "What is Church?"Is it a building where one goes to sing songs and pray and listen?Is it a place where young people are entertained?Should we sing hymns in church or songs?Should we have an organ or modern musical instraments to provide music?Why are most churches spectator sports not every member contributing?Does the true church meet in homes?Is Sunday morning Biblical?Should we meet daily for meals as they did in the New Testament?Should we divide up into different age and gender groups?Is church about us or about God?Should we build the church or the Kingdom of GOd?Is present day church in many cases very shallow?Is today's church more about religion and ritual than relationships?Why are only 1% of churches growing?Is there any scriptual authority for a paid pastor brought in from another town? (if you think there is please supply verses).Why do most churches spend so little time in corporate prayer?Why do most people (in my country anyway) consider the church irrelevant?Why do we delight in shooting the wounded?Over to you.
marksman, The Greek word, EKKLESIA, is where the word church, in English, came from. The original word did not mean a building, it meant the congregation, no matter where they met together. You are very correct about shallowness of most churches. Today people have very little time to spend studying God's word, so they know only what is taught to them by their religious leader. People today can rightly be called SUPERFICIALISTS. The word of God is terra incognita to most, at best they have only a nodding acquaintence with God's Holy Bible. A study of God's word is the most important thing to spend time on today. Our day is the most critical time in all of man's history, when people should be drawing closer to God, instead of thinking the Bible is insignificant today, in this modern world. The opposite is true, the Bible is the most up to date book on the planet. The Bible is an open, person a letter to all mankind. If people do not care enough about their creator, to read His letter, do they really deserve to live in the paradise earth God , that God has promised, to all that love Him???
 

setfree

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I believe Church is 180 degrees away from what God called it to be. We have let the religious leaders as jtartar said, direct our paths and have not studied out the word for ourselves. I long to worship in a gathering where it is one accord and the way God wants it to be.....Does this exist today?
 

setfree

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(i love god;50930)
wakka is right we are the church
Yes we are the called out! But are we doing what we were called out to do in a corporate worship?
 

marksman

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I long to worship in a gathering where it is one accord and the way God wants it to be.....Does this exist today?
In my study of the NT church I read about 40 other authors. One thing that was becoming apparent was that people are ditching the institutionalised church in droves for a more authentic experience of christian living. One where relationships are more important than religion or ritual.IN the USA, Frank Viola has written some very good books on the subject. In Australia, Robert Banks has done the same.When I lived in England I was part of a fellowship for 10 years where we majored on the priesthood of all believers. We had no paid pastor and no programme for the meetings. Just everyone came together and functioned in the meeting as the Spirit led them to do. Two years ago I went back there to celebrate their 50th year in operation. It was so dynamic that people came from all over the world to experience what was happening.I like the word SUPERFICIALISTS. Never a truer word spoken in jest as they say.
 

setfree

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(marksman;51028)
In my study of the NT church I read about 40 other authors. One thing that was becoming apparent was that people are ditching the institutionalised church in droves for a more authentic experience of christian living. One where relationships are more important than religion or ritual.IN the USA, Frank Viola has written some very good books on the subject. In Australia, Robert Banks has done the same.When I lived in England I was part of a fellowship for 10 years where we majored on the priesthood of all believers. We had no paid pastor and no programme for the meetings. Just everyone came together and functioned in the meeting as the Spirit led them to do. Two years ago I went back there to celebrate their 50th year in operation. It was so dynamic that people came from all over the world to experience what was happening.I like the word SUPERFICIALISTS. Never a truer word spoken in jest as they say.
Sounds great!
 

SealedEternal

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One of the greatest deceptions in the so-called “churches” of our modern day is the definition of the word “church” itself. We tend to think of it as a building, an institution, a denomination, or a worship service. None of these accurately capture the true meaning of the Greek word “ekklesia.”The word church comes from the old English and Germanic word kirke, (pronounced "keer - kay"), and which itself came from the Babylonian for the goddess Circe (pronounced "seer-say"). The goddess Circe was thought to be connected with the power of the sun, which is round, and thus the connection to Circe, a circle. In Anglo-Saxon history, the pagans worshipped the sun standing in a circle [kirke]. These pagan worshippers became known as the “circle“, or the “kirke“, then ultimately the “church.” Therefore, the word “church” predates Christianity and is actually a pagan term rather than a Christian one. The first complete English Bible was the Tyndale Bible in about 1524, and that Bible did not use the word "church" anywhere in its pages, but instead used the word "congregation." This is a more accurate translation, even though it doesn’t quite capture the original meaning of “ekklesia“. The word “church” crept into our English translations soon after, probably because of pagans who accepted some form of Christianity and retained the word “church” from their pagan circle’ to refer to their Christian meeting. King James was the “Head” of the Church of England, which is essentially the Anglican Church, or the equivalent of England’s Roman Catholic Church. At the time of the 1611 King James translation, the Roman Church, as well as the Anglican Church were threatened by separatist and reform movements, and many of their false doctrines were being threatened with being exposed. By translating the Greek word “ekklesia” as “Church,” the Anglican so-called “church” was able to claim to hold the power of salvation over people, just as the Catholic Church does. This is because of a misunderstanding of who the “ekklesia” really is.The word “ekklesia” comes from two Greek words: Ek means out and Kaleo means call, and this is the verb form. When we put the two together and write the noun form of it, it is Ekklesia and means called out ones. This is the way it is always used in the Greek language. It means an assembly of people who are called out for a purpose. There were other Greek words that also meant assembly such as, agora and paneguris as well as heorte, koinon, thiasos, sunagoge and sunago, but the Bible always uses “ekklesia.“ It is used seventy times in the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament from 200-300 BC. It translates the Hebrew word kahal (from which latter we have our word call), as “sunagoge” and “ekklesia.” “Ekklesia” occurs in New Testament 115 times (36 in plural), and is always translated "church" except in Acts 19:32, 39, 41 where it is translated “assembly. “The word ekklesia is also used to translate the Hebrew word miqra in the Septuagint, because it also means “called out.” Miqra is the word that the English Bibles usually translate as “convocation“, as in "it shall be a holy convocation unto you" (Lev. 23:36). So in the Old Testament the phrase “called out” is translated as convocation and in the New Testament the same phrase is translated as “church.” They have the same meaning, but because of the different English words they are made to seem different from each other. “Ekklesia” was most often used as a political term prior to the Bible, not a religious one. In classical Greek "ekklesia" meant "an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly." It essentially refers to an assembly of people who have been brought together for a common purpose. If it was for a political purpose, it would then be a political assembly; if called out for a social purpose, it would be a social assembly.We see a political, or anti-religious “ekklesia,” or church, called out in Acts 19:25-41, but here was an ekklesia that was called to work against Paul who had come to preach the gospel to the heathen city, Ephesus. This is not a religious ekklesia, but a plotting ekklesia meeting to stir up the people to destroy Paul. When we think of the word “church” today, we tend to think of it as a religious word, but that is not necessarily the case.The early believers did not view the Church as an institution. Instead, they saw themselves as the “body of God’s people” united under the leadership and control of His Messiah. Using the term “ekklesia” and their meetings together in each other’s homes gave them greater solidarity and allows them to better understand God’s true calling for the Church. God called them to be bound together closer than any other group and to put off any differences that aroseThis is the true meaning of “ekklesia.” It refers to those whom God has called out of the world, rather than referring to any particular institution. By choosing this misleading word, the early Catholic/Anglican translators were able to fool the masses into putting their faith in the “church” as an institution, rather than realizing that we are the Church. Almost all modern translations of the bible have also translated “ekklesia” as “church” because this term has become an integral part of our English language. As Christians we have been called out of the world by our Lord for a specific purpose."But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;" (1 Peter 2:9).Out of the 115 times "church" is used in the Greek New Testament, it never refers to the building in which the church meets. "Church" is also never used to denote denominations. Denominations did not exist in the First Century Church, and most of he people in these denominations today, are not part of Christ’s “ekklesia” because their faith is in an institution and it’s false teachings, rather than in Christ’s Word alone. The true Church consists of those who have been called out of the world by Christ, and has nothing to do with who one is affiliated with, except with Him.SealedEternal
 

Learning

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Thank for this for informative post Sealed. Have been confused about the word church and have read many explainations for it. Yours is the first to show research and history of it. This really has set things straight for me.
smile.gif
 

marksman

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Now that Sealed Eternal has given us a very clear explanation, perhaps we can put our thinking caps on and answer the question "that being the case, what difference should it make as to how we express ourself as believers?
 

sharon333

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That is a very interesting question. I think it has everything to do with how you are received in heaven.
 

manichunter

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The Christian Religion calls itself the Church of God. God calls His people Spiritual Israel the Bride of His Son Jesus. We have a problem with identity here. Israel and Church have to different meanings. We are the olive tree of Romans 11. The label Church as far as being the label of the Body of Christ is man made. Church does mean called out ones in reference to the saints, but the transleration in the greek means public or political assembly of people. It was used in a secular setting before it applied to saints. Christians stole the word from the secular greek world. Now the label Israel means something unique and God ordained. It was given and created by God and it still applies according to Jer 31:30-35. We serve the enemy's purpose by not knowing our true identity. We also miss out on other benefits of the marriage covenant because we are called by someone else's name. Its like a man's wife keeping her ex-husband last name after the get married. It is disrespect for us to call ourselves by a name not given by God and not use the name God gave His Bride............