Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

Taken · Jan 18, 2019

Dave L said:
But if scripture identifies an idol worshiper, we hate them if we do not try to enlighten them.

Your quote... POST #423

Passages PROVE God is NOT ONE

BTW...God is the one who enlightens a man, Because the man TRUSTS the WORD of God, without yet Understanding.

Obviously you DO NOT TRUST the WORD of God.

Gen 3: [22] And the LORD God said,Behold, the man is become as [I/]one "of us" to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Obviously you HAVE NOT Come to the Understanding....The LORD God identifies HIMSELF as "US".

Obviously you HAVE NOT Come to the Understanding....The LORD God has revealed WHO the "US" of God "IS".

His Own "WORD"...... Lord
His Own "WILL"........ God
His Own "POWER"..... Almighty

ONE GOD.
Always ONE and ONLY ONE God.

So how say YOU....what GOD IS NOT....in opposition to WHAT God SAYS "HE IS"?

YOUR QUOTE...

Passages PROVE God is NOT ONE

Click to expand...

Pfft...You have a lot of nerve calling other people "idol worshipers".... when you are the one who teaches in opposition to God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

Taken said:
But YOU have not IDENTIFIED any idol worshipers.....(except yourself).

Your own words...

Perhaps you should LOOK in a mirror, when wagging your tongue of WHO denies God, and teaches what God IS NOT, and discover WHO YOU "are" worshiping.

Glory, Praise and Worship,
to THEE ONE Lord God Almighty,

Taken

What makes you think you are not an idol worshiper? Have you checked the history of your belief about God? How the entire church condemns it as heresy since the earliest times? How your belief resurfaced in the early 1900s in the Pentecostal outbreak. And that most Pentecostals reject your belief and identify Oneness as heresy too? And that Christianity is the only religion to worship God in trinity. All others, including Islam hold you view of God? You need to consider this - seriously.

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

Taken said:
Your quote... POST #423

BTW...God is the one who enlightens a man, Because the man TRUSTS the WORD of God, without yet Understanding.

Obviously you DO NOT TRUST the WORD of God.

Gen 3: [22] And the LORD God said,Behold, the man is become as [I/]one "of us" to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Obviously you HAVE NOT Come to the Understanding....The LORD God identifies HIMSELF as "US".

Obviously you HAVE NOT Come to the Understanding....The LORD God has revealed WHO the "US" of God "IS".

His Own "WORD"...... Lord
His Own "WILL"........ God
His Own "POWER"..... Almighty

ONE GOD.
Always ONE and ONLY ONE God.

So how say YOU....what GOD IS NOT....in opposition to WHAT God SAYS "HE IS"?

YOUR QUOTE...

Pfft...You have a lot of nerve calling other people "idol worshipers".... when you are the one who teaches in opposition to God.

Glory to God,
Taken

You still cannot reconcile three persons called God simultaneously present at Jesus' baptism. This alone refutes Oneness.

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

Taken said:
"THINK outside the box"?
A clever worldly saying, but then the FACT is you have SEPARATED the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, IN Separate BOXES, and THINK and TEACH they ARE Separate.

Scripture doesn't SEPARATE the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.....

Scripture simply REVEALS the Father, Son, Holy Spirit....are ONE Lord GOD Almighty...
called by MULTIPLE NAMES, and are MULTIPLE PLACES at the SAME TIME.

If you are going to PUT God "IN A BOX", you might consider; if you are not IN that BOX "WITH" Him, you are "WITHOUT" Him.

John 10:30
I and my father are One.

One God.

Glory to God,
Taken

One God? Yes. One person as God? No.

Quoting 1 John 5:7, from the second century Cyprian said; "and again it Is written of the Father, and of the Son. and of the Holy Spirit, ‘And these three are one' ". Treatises (I 5:423)

Taken · Jan 18, 2019

Dave L said:
Scripture defines God. Any false understanding of this definition represents an idol we worship in place of God.

Your own words are a FINE example of false understanding.

...human Jesus
...passages PROVE God is NOT ONE.
...the Father IS NOT the Holy Spirit.
...the Son IS NOT the Father.

Nothing in Scripture says these things, THAT YOU SAY.

I would agree "YOU"....not "we".

false understanding of this definition represents an idol we YOU worship in place of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

Taken said:
Your own words are a FINE example of false understanding.

Nothing in Scripture says these things, THAT YOU SAY.

I would agree "YOU"....not "we".

Glory to God,
Taken

Not according to Scripture and historic Christianity which is the only trinitarian, and true religion in the world.

farouk · Jan 18, 2019

Waiting on him said:
My wife and I have been married 31 years and we are one flesh

God bless you guys.

The testimony needs homes where there is indeed 'light in (our) dwellings'.

farouk · Jan 18, 2019

@Waiting on him PS: Exodus 10.23 is the reference there...

Waiting on him · Jan 18, 2019

Dave L said:
One God? Yes. One person as God? No.

Quoting 1 John 5:7, from the second century Cyprian said; "and again it Is written of the Father, and of the Son. and of the Holy Spirit, ‘And these three are one' ". Treatises (I 5:423)

These three bare witness

farouk · Jan 18, 2019

Waiting on him said:
These three bare witness

The New Testament is indeed full of God in Three Persons. (Not least John's First Epistle...)

Waiting on him · Jan 18, 2019

farouk said:
@Waiting on him PS: Exodus 10.23 is the reference there...

It’s all overwhelmingly obvious.

farouk · Jan 18, 2019

Waiting on him said:
It’s all overwhelmingly obvious.

You mean about Godly home life or God in the Three Persons? Actually, both are true in any case.

Taken · Jan 18, 2019

Dave L said:
One God? Yes.

.... Passages PROVE God is NOT ONE.

Your own quotes contradict YOURSELF.

One person as God? No.

....human Jesus

Which are YOU Worshiping...
A HUMAN "OR" thee GOD who IS SPIRIT?

I am not the one with the DILEMMA.
I am not the one claiming...

...human Jesus
...passages PROVE God is NOT ONE.

^ Those are YOUR CLAIMS.

Quoting 1 John 5:7, from the second century Cyprian said; "and again it Is written of the Father, and of the Son. and of the Holy Spirit, ‘And these three are one' ". Treatises (I 5:423)

These THREE "WHAT" are ONE?

YOU ONLY KNOW NAMES, TITLES, AND THEN "YOU" "TEACH" THEY "ARE" SEPARATE" PERSONS....

While Scripture TEACHES, GOD IS HIS OWN..."I", "HE",

WILL
WORD
SPIRIT

And NEVER "SEPARATE" from Himself.

It matters NOT IF God is IN Heaven, ON Earth, IN Hell, IN a man, Outside of a man, Appears AS an Angel, Appears AS a Man, Appears AS a Dove, Appears AS a Cloud....
God IS NEVER Separate from ... HIMSELF..

WILL, WORD, SPIRIT

God DOES NOT BECOME "created" THINGS...
A HUMAN, An Angel, A Dove, A Cloud, A Burning Bush...

God IS NEVER Separated FROM HIMSELF.

You ascribing the TERM "PERSON"....THEN TEACHING "PERSON" IS A HUMAN....THEN
SEPARATING "GOD" INTO "3 PERSONS"...

IS YOU despertately trying to TEACH about GOD.....ACCORDING TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF "YOUR OWN HUMAN CARNAL MIND".

You should have LEARNED...THAT IS A "FAIL".

Scripture itself TEACHES...

The CARNAL MIND IS AGAINST GOD.

Only God Himself, Gives a man HIS Understanding.

And it is more than OBVIOUS, by your own contradictory words...YOU teach from your Carnal Mind.

And precisely WHY, I reject your teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

Taken said:
Your own quotes contradict YOURSELF.

Which are YOU Worshiping...
A HUMAN "OR" thee GOD who IS SPIRIT?

I am not the one with the DILEMMA.
I am not the one claiming...

^ Those are YOUR CLAIMS.

These THREE "WHAT" are ONE?

YOU ONLY KNOW NAMES, TITLES, AND THEN "YOU" "TEACH" THEY "ARE" SEPARATE" PERSONS....

While Scripture TEACHES, GOD IS HIS OWN..."I", "HE",

WILL
WORD
SPIRIT

And NEVER "SEPARATE" from Himself.

It matters NOT IF God is IN Heaven, ON Earth, IN Hell, IN a man, Outside of a man, Appears AS an Angel, Appears AS a Man, Appears AS a Dove, Appears AS a Cloud....
God IS NEVER Separate from ... HIMSELF..

WILL, WORD, SPIRIT

God DOES NOT BECOME "created" THINGS...
A HUMAN, An Angel, A Dove, A Cloud, A Burning Bush...

God IS NEVER Separated FROM HIMSELF.

You ascribing the TERM "PERSON"....THEN TEACHING "PERSON" IS A HUMAN....THEN
SEPARATING "GOD" INTO "3 PERSONS"...

IS YOU despertately trying to TEACH about GOD.....ACCORDING TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF "YOUR OWN HUMAN CARNAL MIND".

You should have LEARNED...THAT IS A "FAIL".

Scripture itself TEACHES...

The CARNAL MIND IS AGAINST GOD.

Only God Himself, Gives a man HIS Understanding.

And it is more than OBVIOUS, by your own contradictory words...YOU teach from your Carnal Mind.

And precisely WHY, I reject your teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken

You cannot "reason" your way out of this. All you can do is neglect many scriptures that refute your views. You cannot deal with even the simplest of them, the baptism of Jesus. Three persons, all called God and who speak as God, present during Jesus' baptism. Are you going to try to place several items in your grocery cart, and try to pay for only one? Telling the cashier that the cucumber morphed into the carrot, and after that, into the celery? That's what you are trying to pull here.

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

Taken said:
Your own quotes contradict YOURSELF.

Which are YOU Worshiping...
A HUMAN "OR" thee GOD who IS SPIRIT?

I am not the one with the DILEMMA.
I am not the one claiming...

^ Those are YOUR CLAIMS.

These THREE "WHAT" are ONE?

YOU ONLY KNOW NAMES, TITLES, AND THEN "YOU" "TEACH" THEY "ARE" SEPARATE" PERSONS....

While Scripture TEACHES, GOD IS HIS OWN..."I", "HE",

WILL
WORD
SPIRIT

And NEVER "SEPARATE" from Himself.

It matters NOT IF God is IN Heaven, ON Earth, IN Hell, IN a man, Outside of a man, Appears AS an Angel, Appears AS a Man, Appears AS a Dove, Appears AS a Cloud....
God IS NEVER Separate from ... HIMSELF..

WILL, WORD, SPIRIT

God DOES NOT BECOME "created" THINGS...
A HUMAN, An Angel, A Dove, A Cloud, A Burning Bush...

God IS NEVER Separated FROM HIMSELF.

You ascribing the TERM "PERSON"....THEN TEACHING "PERSON" IS A HUMAN....THEN
SEPARATING "GOD" INTO "3 PERSONS"...

IS YOU despertately trying to TEACH about GOD.....ACCORDING TO THE UNDERSTANDING OF "YOUR OWN HUMAN CARNAL MIND".

You should have LEARNED...THAT IS A "FAIL".

Scripture itself TEACHES...

The CARNAL MIND IS AGAINST GOD.

Only God Himself, Gives a man HIS Understanding.

And it is more than OBVIOUS, by your own contradictory words...YOU teach from your Carnal Mind.

And precisely WHY, I reject your teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken

You are confused.

Waiting on him · Jan 18, 2019

Dave L said:
You are confused.

Reminds me of that Ray Stevens song I’m my own grandpa. I think it was him

justbyfaith · Jan 18, 2019

Dave L said:
We still have the problem of three persons, called God, all simultaneously present at Jesus' baptism and two present on the Mount of Transfiguration.

Dave L said:
You still cannot reconcile three persons called God simultaneously present at Jesus' baptism. This alone refutes Oneness.

Dave L said:
You cannot deal with even the simplest of them, the baptism of Jesus.

This has been dealt with.

The same principle that is applied to our understanding of the Oneness of God in John 1:1 applies to the baptism of Jesus.

God inhabiteth eternity, and descended to become a Man, released His Spirit back into eternity, and then also ascended to fill all things (while abiding in a finite human body).

Scriptures: Isaiah 57:15, Ephesians 4:10. 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7.

From the perspective of inhabiting eternity, the Father is certainly capable of sending His voice to that place in finite time where Jesus was baptized by John, and/or the finite place in time when Jesus was transfigured and spoke with Elijah and Moses. And having ascended into eternity when Jesus spoke the words, Into thy hands I commend my spirit (Luke 23:46), the Holy Ghost is certainly able to descend on Jesus like a Dove at any given moment in time; whether it be in the immediate presence of His past self or not.

And it is not impossible that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost present at Jesus' baptism are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (i.e. the same Person).

But you don't understand because you are thinking of it all with the natural mind (1 Corinthians 2:14).

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are indeed the same Person while there is distinction between the three.

If they are not distinct but rather separate, then what you have is three Gods (Tritheism) rather than one God in three Persons (the Trinity).

I know that what I am espousing is the Trinity; however my view emphasizes the Oneness of God too much for certain Tritheists who think of themselves as Trinitarians. They give lip service to the oneness of God so that they can still be called monotheistic and Christian; but in all reality they are espousing an idol: a three-headed god.

In all reality there is one God (see James 2:19) who became a Man and released his Spirit back to Himself. It is really not that difficult to understand if you would only receive it.

But people get hung up on the creeds instead of looking to the Bible for their answers; thus they hold the words of men to be superior to the word of God and their concept of the Trinity becomes convoluted because somewhere in those creeds the wording isn't perfect enough to relay the concept that God is still one Spirit, one Lord, one God.

Somehow they portray the concept of a Tritheistic god and this carries over into how people view the Triune nature of our Lord.

I would just encourage the readers and onlookers to seek the Holy Spirit for the answers; and to go to His word for the actual scriptures that speak on the issues at hand.

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

justbyfaith said:
This has been dealt with.

The same principle that is applied to our understanding of the Oneness of God in John 1:1 applies to the baptism of Jesus.

God inhabiteth eternity, and descended to become a Man, released His Spirit back into eternity, and then also ascended to fill all things (while abiding in a human body).

Scriptures: Isaiah 57:15, Ephesians 4:10.

From the perspective of inhabiting eternity, the Father is certainly capable of sending His voice to that place in finite time where Jesus was baptized by John, and/or the finite place in time when Jesus was transfigured and spoke with Elijah and Moses. And having ascended into eternity when Jesus spoke the words, Into thy hands I commend my spirit (Luke 23:46), the Holy Ghost is certainly able to descend on Jesus like a Dove.

And it is not impossible that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost present at Jesus' baptism are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (i.e. the same Person).

But you don't understand because you are thinking of it all with the natural mind (1 Corinthians 2:14).

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are indeed the same Person while there is distinction between the three.

If they are not distinct but rather separate, then what you have is three Gods (Tritheism) rather than one God in three Persons (the Trinity).

I know that what I am espousing is the Trinity; however my view emphasizes the Oneness of God too much for certain Tritheists who think of themselves as Trinitarians. They give lip service to the oneness of God so that they can still be called monotheistic and Christian; but in all reality they are espousing an idol: a three-headed god.

In all reality there is one God (see James 2:19) who became a Man and released his Spirit back to Himself. It is really not that difficult to understand if you would only receive it.

But people get hung up on the creeds instead of looking to the Bible for their answers; thus they hold the words of men to be superior to the word of God and their concept of the Trinity becomes convoluted because somewhere in those creeds the wording isn't perfect enough to relay the concept that God is still one Spirit, one Lord, one God.

Somehow they portray the concept of a Tritheistic god and this carries over into how people view the Triune nature of our Lord.

I would just encourage the readers and onlookers to seek the Holy Spirit for the answers; and to go to His word for the actual scriptures that speak on the issues at hand.

We still have you pinned down at cult and heretic status unless you can explain Oneness in view of the three persons called God simultaneously present during Jesus' baptism.

justbyfaith · Jan 18, 2019

Dave L said:
We still have you pinned down at cult and heretic status unless you can explain Oneness in view of the three persons called God simultaneously present during Jesus' baptism.

I just explained it...but I guess the explanation went over your head. Therefore, I suppose that the understanding that I am bringing forth is reserved for those who have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Dave L · Jan 18, 2019

justbyfaith said:
I just explained it...but I guess the explanation went over your head. Therefore, I suppose that the understanding that I am bringing forth is reserved for those who have been given the gift of the Holy Ghost.

1Co 2:14, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You fabricated another false doctrine and tried to push it of giving it a respectable name.

Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

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