Who is Jesus Christ?

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Enoch111

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The second person of the Trinity became the son of God when he was incarnated in the flesh.
This is completely false. The Son of God was ETERNALLY with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
The flesh he took on was the son not his spirit, which was always God, equal to the father and the Holy Spirit.
If you are saying that the flesh (the body) is not the spirit, no one will deny that. But if you are attaching some other meaning to "The flesh he took on was the son not his spirit", then you have a major problem with your understanding.
The second person of the Trinity has no father.
Now this is an egregious blunder. Since the second person of the Trinity is indeed the Son of God, God has been His Father from eternity past.
The father-son Holy Spirit relationship with the Trinity did not exist in the Old Testament. It was first, second and third person of the Trinity.
If by that you mean it was not revealed in the OT, then you are clearly mistaken.
OT
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (Psalm 2:7)
NT
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (Heb 1:5)


OT
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Psalm 45:6,7)
NT
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Heb 1:8,9)
The third person took on the role of Holy Spirit. The second the role of Angel of God. The first one who sat on the throne of heaven.
This is another egregious blunder. None of the divine persons take on roles. They are what they are and who they are from eternity.

It is quite amazing that you are so confused about the Godhead. Has the Watchtower Society or the LDS, or some other group gotten to you?
 

CoreIssue

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No. The Son always existed with the Father as the Son. He was given a body at the incarnation. He now was the God/Man.

The Father/Son relationship has always existed.

The Son becoming Man had nothing to do with He being God the Son. The Son becoming a Man had everything to do with He being the firstborn of many brethren, so that others would become sons of God also. (Rom. 8:29) The resurrection is the birthing room for this beginning. (Acts 13:33)

Quantrill

Sounds like modalism to me.
 

CoreIssue

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This is completely false. The Son of God was ETERNALLY with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.

If you are saying that the flesh (the body) is not the spirit, no one will deny that. But if you are attaching some other meaning to "The flesh he took on was the son not his spirit", then you have a major problem with your understanding.

Now this is an egregious blunder. Since the second person of the Trinity is indeed the Son of God, God has been His Father from eternity past.

If by that you mean it was not revealed in the OT, then you are clearly mistaken.
OT
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. (Psalm 2:7)
NT
For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? (Heb 1:5)


OT
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Psalm 45:6,7)
NT
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Heb 1:8,9)

This is another egregious blunder. None of the divine persons take on roles. They are what they are and who they are from eternity.

It is quite amazing that you are so confused about the Godhead. Has the Watchtower Society or the LDS, or some other group gotten to you?

The second person of the Trinity took on flesh and became the son. John one makes it quite clear.

Nowhere in the Old Testament do you see first person of the Trinity ever called father or the second person his son.

You see prophecy, but not fact.

By your declaration the second person was eternally the angel of God.

No, the LDS has gotten to you. The second person of the Trinity was not begotten by any woman, but the son of God was.

Adam is also the son of God. Are you saying he is eternal as well and God?

Just like with Easter, you're getting it wrong.
 

101G

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This is completely false. The Son of God was ETERNALLY with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
CoreIssue is correct, the son of God was born by Mary, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".

the Son of man was never born, but came down from heaven. John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".

John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

PICJAG.
 

CoreIssue

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CoreIssue is correct, the son of God was born by Mary, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".

the Son of man was never born, but came down from heaven. John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".

John 3:31 "He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

PICJAG.

Son of man. Remember Adam means man and we all are sons of man in the reality we are all descended from Adam.

As for John 3:13,
The second person of the Trinity descended from heaven to take on flesh to become the Son of Man.

Sometimes Jesus spoke as a man and sometimes as God. Context tells you which he spoke as at any given time.
 

Enoch111

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CoreIssue is correct, the son of God was born by Mary...
That's not the point. Was Jesus the Son of God long before He was born of Mary? Absolutely. Scripture confirms that.

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth [BORN OF MARY] unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.[BUT HAVING EXISTED FROM ETERNITY] (Micah 5:2)
 
B

brakelite

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The overriding principle reason for the gospel of John...the reason John wrote it...Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. Yet in doing so, proving that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God, John completely ignored Bethlehem and the events of the incarnation, except for one oblique reference, "the Word became flesh". If John was going to prove Jesus was the Son of God because of the incarnation, then surely he would have mentioned Luke 1:35 , but no. The prime reason therefore for Christ being called the Son of God cannot be His birth at Bethlehem. There must be another reason.
The signs that John gave were signs of Christ‘s divinity. Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit he was led of God to show that Christ was the divine Son of God. This can clearly be seen in his opening words:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
In order to fulfil the purpose in writing his Gospel (that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God), the very first thing that the Holy Spirit led John to write was that Christ, in His pre-existence, ―was God. From the outset therefore, John was saying to his readers that there are two divine personages who are both rightly termed God (Gr. Theos). This was the opening thrust of his Gospel. John then proceeded to reinforce his opening words. He did this by saying that all things were made by the Word and without him was not any thing made that was made (John 1:3). Christ therefore, says John, is our Creator. This is the highest possible claim to divinity. Only divinity is not created.
These are amongst the opening thoughts that John sought to impress on the minds of those who would read his Gospel. First he shows that Christ is God (1:1). Secondly he shows that Christ was in the beginning with God (1:2). Thirdly he says that Christ is our Creator (1:3). These opening words are the very foundation for everything he would write.
Many events in the life of Jesus were exclusively mentioned by John, such as the resurrection of Lazarus, the changing of water into wine, and many others. Many talks were reported by John alone...the prayer of John 17, the talk with Nicodemus, and the woman at the well. All written to prove Jesus was the divine Son of God.
Throughout his Gospel, (and his letters), John repeatedly makes reference to Christ as being the Son of God. He also cites Jesus as continually speaking of God as His Father. This is the golden thread that runs through his Gospel from beginning to end. The terminology the Son of God therefore is the equivalent of saying that Christ is God. The question remains though: How could Christ, in His pre-existence, be God, yet at the same time be with God? (John 1:1). Is He the same God as He was with (the Father) or is He a different God? The answer is found in Christ‘s relationship to God – meaning in His Sonship.
For Christ to be the divine Son of God He must be begotten (brought forth) of God. If He is not begotten (brought forth) of God then He can neither be a true Son nor truly God. Everything depends upon His Sonship to God. If Christ is deprived of His true Sonship then He is deprived of His true Godship (Godhood). John wrote in the prologue to his Gospel
―And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 1:14
―No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.John 1:18
John later wrote (relating the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus)
―For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16
―He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.‖ John 3:18
Amongst various scholars there is a consensus of opinion that the words found in the above two verses were not spoken by Jesus. This is because these scholars regard Christ‘s conversation with Nicodemus as ending at verse 15. Whilst I am not going to debate this issue here, it is true to say that whichever way this is viewed, it does not detract from the fact that the Holy Spirit inspired John to write these words. This means that even if they were only John‘s comments, they are as true as if Jesus Himself had spoken them. I may be wrong, but I think that Jesus did speak these words. John also wrote in one of his pastoral letters
―In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 1 John 4:9
On two occasions with His own voice, God confirmed Christ‘s Sonship to Himself. The first was at the baptism of Jesus. The second was at His transfiguration
―And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matthew 3:17
―While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Matthew 17:5From the above it can be seen that this Sonship was not because of Christ‘s human birth at Bethlehem but because of His pre-existent relationship with God. To put it another way: According to the Word of God, Christ had a pre-existent Sonship.
 

101G

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That's not the point. Was Jesus the Son of God long before He was born of Mary? Absolutely. Scripture confirms that.

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth [BORN OF MARY] unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.[BUT HAVING EXISTED FROM ETERNITY] (Micah 5:2)
GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, Micah 5:2 is prophecy that is to come. the Son of God did not come untill Mary birth ... "IT" you don't understand prophecy, listen,
1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

understand Enoch111, it was the Spirit ........ "OF" ..... Christ in the OT, other words the Holy Spirit. that flesh bone and blood was not in the OT.

sorry Charlie .. :)

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Son of man. Remember Adam means man and we all are sons of man in the reality we are all descended from Adam.

As for John 3:13,
The second person of the Trinity descended from heaven to take on flesh to become the Son of Man.

Sometimes Jesus spoke as a man and sometimes as God. Context tells you which he spoke as at any given time.
first thanks for the reply, second, are we all the sons of "men", question, did Adam have a earthly Father? .......

third, there is no second person anywhere. and the son of Man did come down from heaven, because the son of man is spirit, that was to come in FLESH.... , yes, God with the samall case "s". :eek: Say WHAT?.

fourth, Jesus, after he G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself, he spoke that what he was learned by the Spirit.

so again we confirm, Son of God which is a title did not exist in the OT, but the son of man did...

PICJAG
 

CoreIssue

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That's not the point. Was Jesus the Son of God long before He was born of Mary? Absolutely. Scripture confirms that.

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth [BORN OF MARY] unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.[BUT HAVING EXISTED FROM ETERNITY] (Micah 5:2)

Prophetically. Not in reality.

Read your own verse. It says shall not is. Prophecy. Future.
 

CoreIssue

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first thanks for the reply, second, are we all the sons of "men", question, did Adam have a earthly Father? .......

third, there is no second person anywhere. and the son of Man did come down from heaven, because the son of man is spirit, that was to come in FLESH.... , yes, God with the samall case "s". :eek: Say WHAT?.

fourth, Jesus, after he G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself, he spoke that what he was learned by the Spirit.

so again we confirm, Son of God which is a title did not exist in the OT, but the son of man did...

PICJAG

Your question on Adam is irrelevant. He was he was the son of God.

The second person of the Trinity descended from heaven became man.

It does not say a man descended first. It says he.
 

101G

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Your question on Adam is irrelevant. He was he was the son of God.

The second person of the Trinity descended from heaven became man.

It does not say a man descended first. It says he.
Adam is Another of God in flesh.

and again, no second person desended from heaven. it is God himself "diversified".

I'm like Paul now, "you can't understand my speech?.

PICJAG
 

Jun2u

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because NO MAN was found in heaven nor on earth who could die for the sins of the world. God himself diversified himself in flesh and died from that NATURE of blood.
Philippians 2:8 "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

God did NOT “diversify Himself” as you call it, There has always been three distinct persons consisting in the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Since man sinned and not animals, God the Son had to strip Himself of His GLORY (HUMBLED HIMSELF) as you pointed out in Philippians 2. But did take upon Him a human nature so as to redeem mankind (not animals) from their sins.

As a man, Jesus could NEVER have been the Savior because man in himself cannot save another from his sins. Jesus NEVER CEASED to be God and so cannot die. He had to humble Himself and put on a human nature to become the redeemer for our sins! So that as a 100% man he could experience death, Hebrews 9:22.

In Genesis 1:1 we read that God created the heaven and the earth. The word “God” is the Hebrew word “Elohim” which is a plural word. In Hebrew when we see “IM” added to a word that word always becomes a plural word.

In the Hebrew there are three numbers:
1) singular means one;
2) dual means two;
3) plural means three or more.

In English there are only two numbers:
1) singular means one;
2) plural means two or more.

Already in Genesis 1:1, we see that there are at least three persons involved in creation, likewise we see also of the Father speaking in the plural form as “us” in Ge 1:26.

Obviously, we can render Ge 1:1 as: “In the beginning, God They created the heaven and the earth.”

Concerning the Holy Spirit, He is NEVER taught in Scripture as the “diversification or Spirit” of the Father nor of the Son. In fact, He is the third person of the Godhead.

The three distinct persons in the Godhead is well taught in Scripture, while you have to push and shove verses to fit into your theory, and argue your point of diversified oneness doctrine. Why not just teach God is One God, and go from there as we read in Deuteronomy 6:4? You can’t can you? Because, the Bible does teach that there are three distinct persons in the Godhead, as well as being One God!!!

If you ask me, I'll not pretend to understand the Godhead with my peanut finite mind, but I believe by faith because the Bible says so.

To borrow your own words: “This is too easy and too simple.”

To God Be The Glory
 
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Enoch111

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God did NOT “diversify Himself” as you call it, There has always been three distinct persons consisting in the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
There's no point wasting time and energy on 101G's unbiblical ideas about the Godhead. He will never understand that Elohim stands for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 

Jun2u

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There's no point wasting time and energy on 101G's unbiblical ideas about the Godhead. He will never understand that Elohim stands for the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

We as children of God know who God is and must persevere to teach those who are lost no matter the circumstances for this is well with God.

Those who think they know God really don't and only pay lip service to Him.

I was reminded of 1 Peter 3:15-17.

Bless you

To God Be The Glory
 

101G

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We as children of God know who God is and must persevere to teach those who are lost no matter the circumstances for this is well with God.

Those who think they know God really don't and only pay lip service to Him.

I was reminded of 1 Peter 3:15-17.

Bless you

To God Be The Glory
I'm reminded of Psalms 119:46 "I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed". and the apostle Paul echoed same. 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth".

Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

PICJAG.
 

Jun2u

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@101G,

Do you even understand 1 Peter 3:15-17?

If you did, you would not have quoted the verses you posted in your last post. The hope that lies in every born-again believer has nothing to do with the verses you quoted. This is the reason your understanding of Scripture is very, very faulty, and the reason you fall short understanding the mystery of Godhead!

To God Be The Glory
 
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101G

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@101G,

Do you even understand 1 Peter 3:15-17?

If you did, you would not have quoted the verses you posted in your last post. The hope that lies in every born-again believer has nothing to do with the verses you quoted. This is the reason your understanding of Scripture is very, very faulty, and the reason you fall short understanding the mystery of Godhead!

To God Be The Glory
first thanks for the reply, second, you said this "We as children of God know who God is and must persevere to teach those who are lost no matter the circumstances for this is well with God.

Those who think they know God really don't and only pay lip service to Him
".

so you know God? ........... ok, what is God name?

PICJAG.
 

Jun2u

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so you know God? ........... ok, what is God name?

Only by how He reveals Himself........ God's name is Jehovah as He revealed in Exodus 6:3. Didn't you know? And, here I thought you understood all about the things of God.

Like you say, "so easy and so simple."

To God Be The Glory