“...are escaped of the house of Jacob.”

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Isaiah 10:20
[20] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord , the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

“...are escaped if the house of Jacob,”

? Isaiah 10:21
[21] The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave L

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
“...are escaped if the house of Jacob,” ?
"The house of Jacob" means all the descendants of Jacob, i.e. Israel. I take it you are wondering what they have escaped from? While the immediate context is that they have escaped from the judgment brought upon them by God through their enemies at that time (Assyria and Babylon), it also points to the future, in which a believing remnant will escape God's judgments and Satan's wrath at the Second Coming of Christ.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"The house of Jacob" means all the descendants of Jacob, i.e. Israel. I take it you are wondering what they have escaped from? While the immediate context is that they have escaped from the judgment brought upon them by God through their enemies at that time (Assyria and Babylon), it also points to the future, in which a believing remnant will escape God's judgments and Satan's wrath at the Second Coming of Christ.

“...shall no more stay on him that smote them;”

Who is ‘him’ they will no more stay on?
Who is the ‘him’ that smote them?
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Who is ‘him’ they will no more stay on?
Who is the ‘him’ that smote them?
It could be a reference to the Assyrian in verse 5. The kings of Judah and Israel were often making inappropriate alliances with heathen nations, and depending on them for help. So the 'him' could be generic with reference to that. Ahaz, for example, sought help from Tilgath-Pileser of Assyria against Samaria and Syria, and became an Assyrian vassal.
 

icxn

Well-Known Member
Oct 6, 2018
233
352
63
49
Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"The house of Jacob" means all the descendants of Jacob, i.e. Israel. I take it you are wondering what they have escaped from? While the immediate context is that they have escaped from the judgment brought upon them by God through their enemies at that time (Assyria and Babylon), it also points to the future, in which a believing remnant will escape God's judgments and Satan's wrath at the Second Coming of Christ.
Why the future coming of Christ and not the first? Did not Christ plunder Satan, the spiritual King of Assyria (Isaiah 8:1-5) by means of the 'short work' of faith in Him (Romans 10:9) and by summarizing all of the law and the prophets in two commandments (Matthew 22:37-40)?

Isaiah 10: (LXX):
20 And it shall come to pass in that day that the remnant of Israel shall no more join themselves with, and the saved of Jacob shall no more trust in, them that injured them; but they shall trust in the Holy God of Israel, in truth. 21 And the remnant of Jacob shall trust on the mighty God. 22 And though the people of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant of them shall be saved. 23 He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because the Lord will make a short work in all the world.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Did not Christ plunder Satan, the spiritual King of Assyria (Isaiah 8:1-5)
We can certainly make a spiritual application with this, but primarily it is a literal prophecy about Israel and its relation to Assyria.
He will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because the Lord will make a short work in all the world.
This is yet future and corresponds to Daniel 9:24 which is about establishing eternal righteousness on earth after the redemption and restoration of Israel:Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This work of God has not been finished, and can only be finished AFTER the Second Coming of Christ.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is yet future and corresponds to Daniel 9:24 which is about establishing eternal righteousness on earth after the redemption and restoration of Israel:Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This work of God has not been finished, and can only be finished AFTER the Second Coming of Christ.

Isaiah 10:22
[22] For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

Isaiah 28:22
[22] Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,544
7,584
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Isaiah 10:20
[20] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord , the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

“...are escaped if the house of Jacob,”

? Isaiah 10:21
[21] The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
The topic of Israel and the Church is ever confused. In my view the plan of salvation is about the rescue of humans of all hues. It is not segregated between ethnicities. History is used as types and symbols, Israel ultimately representing God's people through all ages. Why is that so difficult to grasp? It is only when this symbolism is understood that God's intent in his plan come together. Without this understanding we invent theories that segregate and ultimately create a block in our understanding of God's purposes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LoveBeacon

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,230
113
North America
The topic of Israel and the Church is ever confused. In my view the plan of salvation is about the rescue of humans of all hues. It is not segregated between ethnicities. History is used as types and symbols, Israel ultimately representing God's people through all ages. Why is that so difficult to grasp? It is only when this symbolism is understood that God's intent in his plan come together. Without this understanding we invent theories that segregate and ultimately create a block in our understanding of God's purposes.
In my understanding, the church began at Pentecost, Acts 2.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The topic of Israel and the Church is ever confused. In my view the plan of salvation is about the rescue of humans of all hues. It is not segregated between ethnicities. History is used as types and symbols, Israel ultimately representing God's people through all ages. Why is that so difficult to grasp? It is only when this symbolism is understood that God's intent in his plan come together. Without this understanding we invent theories that segregate and ultimately create a block in our understanding of God's purposes.

I’ve been trying to think of a response to your post for days. I do understand what you mean. It seems important though whom we are to not stay upon but instead stay upon the Holy One of Israel, in truth. Do you know why: Zechariah 13:5-7 But he shall say, I am no prophet, I am an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from my youth. [6] And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. [7] Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
are escaped from the house of Jacob (the "supplanter"), tyvm

see, now that makes sense right

Escaped of, not if. Sorry. Yes. Noticed that a shift in the word ‘of’ ‘from’ and it changes, right? Or am I seeing it wrong. His word does that a lot.

Jacob (2) Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

Question: does Jacob not become Israel?

Genesis 45:27-28
[27] And they told him all the words of Joseph, which he had said unto them: and when he saw the wagons which Joseph had sent to carry him, the spirit of Jacob their father revived: [28] And Israel said, It is enough; Joseph my son is yet alive: I will go and see him before I die.

“....the spirit of Jacob their father revived: And Israel said...”

Important yeah?
What does subplanter mean?
Why did Jacob wrestle with God to surname Him?
Why force Jacob to remain Jacob(subplanter) when he is to be resurrected (glorified) Israel(inheriting the promise.) Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Escaped of, not if. Sorry. Yes. Noticed that a shift in the word ‘of’ ‘from’ and it changes, right? Or am I seeing it wrong. His word does that a lot.
"if" up there is throwing me, sorry. My premise is that our helpful scribes have xlated that "of" rather than "from" to aid in the interpretation of Death More Abundantly, or to hide wisdom from the wise, or whatever in that vein. Of = from, at least to me
Question: does Jacob not become Israel?
does that Israel not get scattered to the four winds?
Important yeah?
What does subplanter mean?
to supersede, to replace (the Rightful Heir who sought "red stew")
Why did Jacob wrestle with God to surname Him?
hmm, perhaps "Why did J wrestle with God? To (sur)name him!"
Why force Jacob to remain Jacob(subplanter) when he is to be resurrected (glorified) Israel(inheriting the promise.)
um, who is doing this forcing, I don't see any, plus imo "supplanter" is not a bad thing?

The rest of this story is rarely contemplated imo; note that it is Israel who leaves, and somehow Esau seems to have gotten the inheritance anyway, right, it is Esau who gets the literal birthright, and Israel who comes bearing gifts of supplication to Esau?

short answer is that these are the same person, these "twins."
castor and pollux romulus and remus jacob and esau - Bing
 
Last edited:

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My premise is that our helpful scribes have xlated that "of" rather than "from" to aid in the interpretation of Death More Abundantly, or to hide wisdom from the wise, or whatever in that vein. Of = from, at least to me

Ok. Then why of =from? Why escape ‘from’ and why do you consider it to aid in the interpretation of death more abundantly? You see...what is to be escaped ‘from’?
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The rest of this story is rarely contemplated imo; note that it is Israel who leaves, and somehow Esau seems to have gotten the inheritance anyway, right, it is Esau who gets the literal birthright, and Israel who comes bearing gifts of supplication to Esau?

“...and Israel who comes bearing gifts of supplication to Esau?”

Psalm 68:18-20
[18] Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the Lord God might dwell among them . [19] Blessed be the Lord, who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah. [20] He that is our God is the God of salvation; and unto God the Lord belong the issues from death.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
You see...what is to be escaped ‘from’?
I edited up there fwiw, and my reply to this is
"the law of sin and death,"--which was a real, literal thing--or "the writing of ordinances over and above the Decalogue (the real "Law")," something like that. Only you have to get them before you can repeal them I guess, Israel gets supplanted later, "not all who are born Israel are of (from) Israel" so imo we are reading about "succession" more than like "usurping," which is maybe what we infer at first reading. I was Esau, lawless, then I was Jacob, supplanter/heel grabber/heir on the run, then I was OT Israel, legalist, now I am this, tomorrow I will have a new secret name, and etc maybe
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I edited up there fwiw, and my reply to this is
"the law of sin and death,"--which was a real, literal thing--or "the writing of ordinances over and above the Decalogue (the real "Law")," something like that. Only you have to get them before you can repeal them I guess, Israel gets supplanted later, "not all who are born Israel are of (from) Israel" so imo we are reading about "succession" more than like "usurping," which is maybe what we infer at first reading. I was Esau, lawless, then I was Jacob, supplanter/heel grabber/heir on the run, then I was OT Israel, legalist, now I am this, tomorrow I will have a new secret name, and etc maybe

I guess what I’m asking is why pervert as you suggest the word ‘of’ and ‘from’ to promote ‘death more abundantly’? Am I misunderstanding?

Isaiah 10:20-22
[20] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, (such as are escaped from "the law of sin and death,"--which was a real, literal thing--or "the writing of ordinances over and above the Decalogue (the real "Law"),)...shall no more again stay upon him (him being "the law of sin and death,"--which was a real, literal thing--or "the writing of ordinances over and above the Decalogue (the real "Law"),)...that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord(Christ/Life) , the Holy One of Israel(Christ/Life), in truth(Christ/Life). [21] The remnant shall return(escaped from "the law of sin and death,"--which was a real, literal thing--or "the writing of ordinances over and above the Decalogue (the real "Law"),..., even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. [22] For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed(trial by Fire)shall overflow with righteousness.(Christ).

Why smite the shepherd? Zechariah 13:6-9 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. [7] Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. [8] And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord , two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. [9] And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

—Galatians 3:26-29 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. [27] For as many of you as have been baptized (with Fire)into Christ have put on Christ. [28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. [29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
Last edited:

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,581
7,857
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My premise is that our helpful scribes have xlated that "of" rather than "from" to aid in the interpretation of Death More Abundantly, or to hide wisdom from the wise, or whatever in that vein. Of = from, at least to me


“...to aid in the interpretation of death more abundantly”...to aid in keeping others under: the law of sin and death?

Romans 8:2
[2] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

To prevent: the law of the Spirit of life.

Isn’t the law of sin and death what we are no longer to stay upon? But instead are to stay upon “the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus”, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Walk after (in) the Spirit of Life, not after the flesh.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
I guess what I’m asking is why pervert as you suggest the word ‘of’ and ‘from’ to promote ‘death more abundantly’? Am I misunderstanding?
bc it is easier to infer what is desired in "escaped of the house of Jacob" than "escaped from the house of Jacob," I think. See how another meaning may more easily be inferred from the first one? That maybe it is those "of the house of Jacob" who somehow escaped? from? is left dangling?

I could give you the language editor's version here, but I would have to descend into editor's syntax, and start using a bunch of terms that tbh even I would have to go look up first lol. practically anyway. Essentially, "escaped of the house of Jacob" allows for a misinterpretation that "escaped from" clarifies.

and I don't mean to imply "perversion," as "of" is completely acceptable, but unfort as we can see more ambiguous also. A more important point imo is to recog that this occurs at every opportunity in Scripture, English Scribes are defining essential terms to suit their understanding. I could even Quote some Scripture--lots, actually--that make no sense whatsoever in English, complete yack