Prophecy Alert: "Blood Moon Over America" 1/19-21/ 2019

CoreIssue said:

It shown me that you are one of many I've encountered over the years.

There is no logic behind people like you who are into idealism. Idealism is not nor ever has been logical or literal.

Compare with the politics of liberals. They talk about respect, their principal and more. But the fruits of that thinking is hatred, bigotry, death and demands that everybody give them what they have so they can feel better.

Idealism (Christian eschatology) | Revolvy

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brakelite said:

I could add one more...
Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Now the immediate assumption is that they, the four beasts (lion, bear, leopard, dragon type beast previously described) are 4 literal kings, however, the time-span of the beasts goes way beyond the capacity for just one individual, thus we must assume that as the kings are representative of kingdoms, the a succession of kings is here intended, as the prophecy extends from the time of Daniel all the way down to the second coming, which gives the added bonus of understanding that the Antichrist, represented by the 'little horn' which grew out of the head of pagan Rome, must also be a succession of 'kings' from that time, (the 6th century) all the way to today and a short way beyond.

Edited PS...which does not in any way suit dispensationists, so they need to reinvent the wheel and cut the prophecy in half...the bit that doesn't suit they throw into the future, thus not only disrupting the flow of history, but amputating the toes of the statue of Daniel two along with it.

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Naomi25 said:

Actually, I think if you look back over our conversation you'll find that what I've talked about is backing opinion with scripture, which I suppose, yes, is a crazy, selfish, hateful demand. One done only to make me feel better. Shame on me.
But, inevitably, there comes a time to move on from a conversation, and this is it. Despite my fervent hopes you may actually step up and provide some scriptural basis for both your ideas and insults, non are going to forth-coming. So...bye.

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Enoch111 said:

Let's take some concrete examples from Scripture (Revelation) to clear the air:

I saw seven golden candlesticks = "are the seven churches" (symbol explained)

And he had in his right hand seven stars = "the seven stars are the angels" (symbol explained)

a door was opened in heaven = a literal *heavenly* door

as it were of a trumpet = similar to ("as it were") a trumpet sound

a throne was set in heaven = a literal throne in the literal third Heaven

four and twenty seats = literal seats in Heaven

four and twenty elders = literal elders in Heaven

crowns of gold = literal crowns of heavenly gold

As you can see in the above examples, the symbols are explained and everything else is to be take literally, even though we do not know the EXACT nature of heavenly things (which are far superior, better, perfect, incorruptible, and eternal).

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Naomi25 said:

Do we think Jesus has a literal sword hanging out of his mouth? No, of course not! Does the text tell us what this sword is? No, actually it doesn't. And there goes your hermeneutic.

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Enoch111 said:

Another false conclusion and a false "Gotcha". Why didn't you take the time to study the subject to avoid embarrassing yourself?

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (Eph 6:17)

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. (Heb 4:12,13)

The Bible makes it CRYSTAL CLEAR that the Word of God is likened to a sword. And it is the Word of God which proceeds out of the mouth of Christ. Christ slays His enemies with "the spirit of His mouth" (2 Thess 2:8) by pronouncing supernatural judgments "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess 1:8)

So what you have been doing all along Naomi is erecting a straw man argument, because you know deep down that your method of understanding Scripture is totally false -- untenable.

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Enoch111 said:

Scripture limits his reign to 3 1/2 years (42 months, 1260 days, a time, times, and half a time).

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Willie T said:

How are "stars" in Revelation literal, when if a "literal" star smashed into earth, EVERYTHING would be gone, and no one would left to be running into caves for shelter? Don't some people even bother to think before they claim something?

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CoreIssue said:

The little horn did not grow out of the head of Rome, it grew out of one of the toe's

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CoreIssue said:

You just keep trying to push SDA doctrine that is rooted in your false prophetess.

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davewatchman said:

Well then that was pretty good dart throwing. Our tetrads were centered EXACTLY in between two lunar triples. Three plus Four plus Three equals Ten.



No, i guess i don't know that. I read the Rules different than you do. It looks to me like Matthew 24 has about five sections, five modules, of repetition and enlargement. He does a section, then starts again at another point within the end times, explaining a segment within another in greater detail. A translation like the ESV seems to do a pretty good job at separating the sections. Where the ESV inserts those headers seems to have a pretty good eyeball on where the sections are separated. Verse 36 starts a new module, it probably doesn't follow verse 35 in an exact chronology in time.

The day and the hour that no man can know is not the actual second coming, it's the day from Luke 17, like on the day that Lot left out from Sodom. Fire fell from heaven on that day. So shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

The day and the Hour that no man can know, not even Jesus, is the day of sudden destruction. It's the day when the wrath of God falls on the sons of disobedience. Jesus has a conflict of interest on this day as He has been mankind's intercessor. The Father has to give the nod for the start of this.

The day and the hour that no man can know is the first day within the appointed time of the end when the sudden destruction falls. Because He goes right on to say that "for as in those days BEFORE the flood. He's talking about the day BEFORE the destruction hits, like in the days BEFORE the flood. That's the day and hour that no man can know.

No One Knows That Day and Hour

36“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,b but the Father only. 37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38For as in those days BEFORE the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
​

But let the Lord be true,
And i am a liar.

Peaceful Sabbath.

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Naomi25 said:

But then you depart from this hermeneutical principle:

From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. Revelation 19:15

Do we think Jesus has a literal sword hanging out of his mouth? No, of course not! Does the text tell us what this sword is? No, actually it doesn't. And there goes your hermeneutic.
But for my hermeneutic, it poses no problem. I look to other texts to tell me what it means:

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. -Hebrews 4:12

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brakelite said:

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast...pagan Rome...
And it had ten horns...The ten Germanic kingdoms that inherited the western empire 7 of which grew into the nations of modern Europe
8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn...

Do you realise how ridiculous your proposition sounds in the light of creation and God's wisdom and common sense?

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brakelite said:

Still pushing that tired old straw man. You must be getting some of that straw under your finger nails by now. EGW didn't invent prophecy. Nor did she invent the interpretation I described above. That my friend is pure reformation theology. Nothing more, nothing less, and I can prove it to you, but you are so old, blind, prejudiced and locked into your own mindset nothing will move you but the Spirit of God. I leave you in His hands.

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brakelite said:

Can you justify uing the day/year method for understanding prophetic time for the 70 weeks, but taking it literally when looking at 1260 days?

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Enoch111 said:

Absolutely.

1. Regarding the 70 weeks the actual words are "seventy sevens" (or in the Hebrew word order sevens seventy), or heptad, which are regarded as weeks of years.

שָׁבֻעִ֨ים šā-ḇu-‘îm* (sevens) שִׁבְעִ֜ים šiḇ-‘îm (seventy)

*Strong's Concordance (7620)
shabua: a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week
Original Word: שְׁבוּעַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: shabua
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-boo'-ah)
Definition: a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week

So the question then arises as to why they should be weeks of years rather than weeks of day. And the answer is found in Dan 9:25-27.

...from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself...

Who gave the commandment and when was it given? Cyrus the Great gave the commandment and it was given in 453 BC. [Note: because of an error of 83 years in Ptolemy's chronology, which is generally followed, the date commonly published is 536 BC]

When was Messiah *cut off* or crucified? 30 AD [Note: According to Martin Anstey's carefully constructed biblical chronology in the book The Chronology of the Old Testament]

453 + 30 = 483/7 = 69 weeks of years.

2. When it comes to the days mentioned in Daniel, the proper Hebrew word for day (s) is used consistently.

...whosoever shall ask a petition of any God or man for thirty days, save of thee, O king, he shall be cast into the den of lions. (Dan 6:7)
תְּלָתִ֗ין te·la·tin (thirty) יֹומִ֣ין yo·v·min (days)*

* Strong's Concordance (3117, 3118)
yom: day
Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yom
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)
Definition: day

Another passage with the same word yom:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days* (יָמִ֕ים ya·mim). Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days* (לְיָמִ֕ים le·ya·mim). (Dan 12:11,12)

We see the Hebrew "evenings and mornings" in this passage (which signifies a 24 hour day as in Gen 1)
...How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days* [ עֶ֣רֶב e·rev (evenings) and בֹּ֔קֶר bo·ker (mornings)]; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Dan 8:13,14)

As you can see, the interpretations are consistent with the Hebrew words. So 1260 days cannot suddenly become 1260 years.

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brakelite said:

As for the year day principle we use in prophetic literature, and your disregard of it...

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...what do you make of the one hour the king's of the earth give power to the beast in revelation17:12 and the one hour of judgement for Babylon in 18:10? There are other time periods in revelation also that without a day year principle being applied, make no sense. Such as revelation 2:10, 8:1 and 9:15.

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CoreIssue said:

The popular 30 A.D. death simply does not work.

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Enoch111 said:

It certainly does. Study Anstey's chronology, which is totally biblical.

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