Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

justbyfaith · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L said:
God is one Spirit with three persons.

Getting warmer...

Do you understand how this can be?

I have been trying to explain to you in clear words the intricacies of this doctrine; but you have rejected my understanding as heresy.

Perhaps I should never have tried to explain it, for to do so is to cast pearls before swine...since the reaction from some people has been to trample over those pearls and turn again to rend me.

And they are indeed valuable pearls...but it seems that the only ones who attribute the proper value to them are those who have been saved with real Acts 2:38 salvation...who did not just get wet for a moment in the name of Jesus so that they might have a talking point for one of their pet doctrines in contradiction to what baptism in Jesus' Name does for a person who really repents and receives the God of the Bible...which is to give understanding as concerning the realities of scripture.

For the sake of the Jewish people will you not consider the Oneness of God as the holy scriptures describe his Triune nature?

justbyfaith · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L said:
The Pharisees worshiped an idol they called YAHWEH.

YHWH is no idol....He is the one true God.

justbyfaith · Jan 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
So you're saying that Jesus is possessed by three Spirits: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; am I correct in this assessment?

@Dave L's reply:

Dave L said:
Yes. God is the Father (cause) of the Son (eternally begotten) who together generate the Holy Spirit. This is apart from time in eternity, without beginning or end and unchangeable being perfect.

.
.
.

Dave L said:
God is one Spirit with three persons.

Now you are changing your tune.

Which one is it? Is God one Spirit or three?

Dave L · Jan 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
@Dave L's reply:

.
.
.

Now you are changing your tune.

Which one is it? Is God one Spirit or three?

Here's a non technical description based on scripture.

God is Spirit without beginning or end. In God exists three persons who make up this Spiritual essence. If you were to go to the place where space no longer has room for matter to exist, God is still there, and beyond, forever without end. In this spiritual essence God created time, space and matter. So no matter where you go, the three persons of God are eternally present as Father, Son, (begotten of the Father) and Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son. Paul says;

“For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28) (KJV 1900)

So this gives you an idea of God's spirituality, immensity, omnipresence, and trinitarian nature. Good topics to study in you are interested.

Dave L · Jan 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
YHWH is no idol....He is the one true God.

They turned him into an idol. Here's what the Lord said; “But God turned away from them and gave them over to worship the host of heaven, as it is written in the book of the prophets: ‘It was not to me that you offered slain animals and sacrifices forty years in the wilderness, was it, house of Israel? But you took along the tabernacle of Moloch and the star of the god Rephan, the images you made to worship, but I will deport you beyond Babylon.’” (Acts 7:42–43)

Dave L · Jan 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Getting warmer...

Do you understand how this can be?

I have been trying to explain to you in clear words the intricacies of this doctrine; but you have rejected my understanding as heresy.

Perhaps I should never have tried to explain it, for to do so is to cast pearls before swine...since the reaction from some people has been to trample over those pearls and turn again to rend me.

And they are indeed valuable pearls...but it seems that the only ones who attribute the proper value to them are those who have been saved with real Acts 2:38 salvation...who did not just get wet for a moment in the name of Jesus so that they might have a talking point for one of their pet doctrines in contradiction to what baptism in Jesus' Name does for a person who really repents and receives the God of the Bible...which is to give understanding as concerning the realities of scripture.

For the sake of the Jewish people will you not consider the Oneness of God as the holy scriptures describes his Triune nature?

When God opens their (your) eyes, they (you) will see the plurality of God in the OT.

Plurality in the Godhead OT

“And God (plural) said, Let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image (singular), after our (plural) likeness: and let them (plural) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man (singular) in his own image (singular), in the image (singular) of God (plural) created he him; male and female created he them.” (Genesis 1:26–27) (KJV 1900)

A human example of plurality;

“And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4) (KJV 1900)

“And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.” (Genesis 11:3) (KJV 1900)

God as plural again;

God said: “Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Genesis 11:7) (KJV 1900)

justbyfaith · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L said:
Here's a non technical description based on scripture.

God is Spirit without beginning or end. In God exists three persons who make up this Spiritual essence. If you were to go to the place where space no longer has room for matter to exist, God is still there, and beyond, forever without end. In this spiritual essence God created time, space and matter. So no matter where you go, the three persons of God are eternally present as Father, Son, (begotten of the Father) and Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son. Paul says;

“For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.” (Acts 17:28) (KJV 1900)

So this gives you an idea of God's spirituality, immensity, omnipresence, and trinitarian nature. Good topics to study in you are interested.

Just so you know, what you have said here in no way contradicts anything that I have taught on the nature of the Trinity.

Indeed, the Son is begotten of the Father (in the incarnation). I am still waiting for the biblical evidence for the eternal generation of the Son.

justbyfaith · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L said:
When God opens their (your) eyes, they (you) will see the plurality of God in the OT.

Plurality in the Godhead OT

“And God (plural) said, Let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image (singular), after our (plural) likeness: and let them (plural) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man (singular) in his own image (singular), in the image (singular) of God (plural) created he him; male and female created he them.” (Genesis 1:26–27) (KJV 1900)

A human example of plurality;

“And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4) (KJV 1900)

“And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.” (Genesis 11:3) (KJV 1900)

God as plural again;

God said: “Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Genesis 11:7) (KJV 1900)

Yes indeed, there is a plurality to the Triune nature of the Lord. I emphasize His Oneness, however, since there are those who think that they believe in the Trinity; who are in all reality Tritheists. And since believing in the Trinity is essential for salvation according to some Trinitarian creeds, it concerns me that in denying the Oneness of our Triune God they are denying the Triune God Himself; as well as the doctrine that defines Him as Triune.

Taken · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L said:
Thanks for considering this. First; JESUS IS JEHOVAH (YAHWEH).

For considering?

I said nothing about considering.
I have been been quite frank...
Christ Jesus IS God.

Isa 40:3 The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of Yahwah in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God.

Now compare that to:

Mat 3:3 For this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord. Make his paths straight.”

John was preaching Jesus, the Old Testament Yahwah according to Isaiah 40:3.

Again:

Num 21:5 The people spoke against God, and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, and there is no water; and our soul loathes this disgusting bread.”
6 Yahweh sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died.

Compare to:

1Cor 10:9 Let’s not test Christ, as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents.

And, again:

Gen 2:4 This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.

John 1:3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.

There it is, three times. The Old Testament says Yahwah did it, the New Testament says Jesus did it.

The only logical conclusion is to see that Jesus is Yahwah and Yahwah is Jesus.

I have more on this if interested.

“As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.” (Acts 13:2) (KJV 1900)

“Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.” (Acts 16:6–7) (KJV 1900)

“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” (John 16:13) (KJV 1900)[/QUOTE]

What exactly are you trying to prove TO ME, and why?

Dave L · Jan 22, 2019

Taken said:
For considering?

I said nothing about considering.
I have been been quite frank...
Christ Jesus IS God.

Now compare that to:

Mat 3:3 For this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord. Make his paths straight.”

John was preaching Jesus, the Old Testament Yahwah according to Isaiah 40:3.

Again:

Num 21:5 The people spoke against God, and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, and there is no water; and our soul loathes this disgusting bread.”
6 Yahweh sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died.

Compare to:

1Cor 10:9 Let’s not test Christ, as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents.

And, again:

Gen 2:4 This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.

John 1:3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.

There it is, three times. The Old Testament says Yahwah did it, the New Testament says Jesus did it.

The only logical conclusion is to see that Jesus is Yahwah and Yahwah is Jesus.

I have more on this if interested.

“As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.” (Acts 13:2) (KJV 1900)

“Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.” (Acts 16:6–7) (KJV 1900)

“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” (John 16:13) (KJV 1900)

What exactly are you trying to prove TO ME, and why?[/QUOTE]
That Jesus is YAHWEH, in trinity. Not as the monotheistic pharisees, Islam and Oneness believes.

Taken · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L. Said;
Yes. God is the Father (cause) of the Son (eternally begotten) who together generate the Holy Spirit.

What do you mean...."generate" ?

Produce, create, ? What?

And what IS the Holy Spirit, according to your understanding ? What does it DO?

Taken

Taken · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L said:
What exactly are you trying to prove TO ME, and why?

That Jesus is YAHWEH, in trinity. Not as the monotheistic pharisees, Islam and Oneness believes.[/QUOTE]

That Jesus is Yahweh?

Who is Yahweh?

Dave L · Jan 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Yes indeed, there is a plurality to the Triune nature of the Lord. I emphasize His Oneness, however, since there are those who think that they believe in the Trinity; who are in all reality Tritheists. And since believing in the Trinity is essential for salvation according to some Trinitarian creeds, it concerns me that in denying the Oneness of our Triune God they are denying the Triune God Himself; as well as the doctrine that defines Him as Triune.

Thanks for the reply. I always try to make sure people understand there is only one God who is Spirit. And then depending on their interest develop the trinitarian nature of the One essence.

Dave L · Jan 22, 2019

Taken said:
That Jesus is YAHWEH, in trinity. Not as the monotheistic pharisees, Islam and Oneness believes.

That Jesus is Yahweh?

Who is Yahweh?[/QUOTE]
Forget it. This explains a lot. See ya.

justbyfaith · Jan 22, 2019

Dave L said:
Thanks for the reply. I always try to make sure people understand there is only one God who is Spirit.

There is only one God who is a Spirit...John 4:23-24.

For there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

As soon as you catch the nuances of how these things can be, we will have accomplished something in your understanding and thinking.

I suggest going back to the beginning of this thread and asking the Lord to give you understanding in regard to all of my posts, as you read them.

101G · Jan 22, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Getting warmer...

Do you understand how this can be?

I have been trying to explain to you in clear words the intricacies of this doctrine; but you have rejected my understanding as heresy.

Perhaps I should never have tried to explain it, for to do so is to cast pearls before swine...since the reaction from some people has been to trample over those pearls and turn again to rend me.

And they are indeed valuable pearls...but it seems that the only ones who attribute the proper value to them are those who have been saved with real Acts 2:38 salvation...who did not just get wet for a moment in the name of Jesus so that they might have a talking point for one of their pet doctrines in contradiction to what baptism in Jesus' Name does for a person who really repents and receives the God of the Bible...which is to give understanding as concerning the realities of scripture.

For the sake of the Jewish people will you not consider the Oneness of God as the holy scriptures describe his Triune nature?

Stand firm in your conviction if true. for the TRUTH need no help to stamd.
1 Thessalonians 5:16 "Rejoice evermore.
1 Thessalonians 5:17 "Pray without ceasing.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 "In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1 Thessalonians 5:19 "Quench not the Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:20 "Despise not prophesyings.
1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1 Thessalonians 5:22 "Abstain from all appearance of evil.

PICJAG.

Dave L · Jan 23, 2019

justbyfaith said:
There is only one God who is a Spirit...John 4:23-24.

For there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

As soon as you catch the nuances of how these things can be, we will have accomplished something in your understanding and thinking.

I suggest going back to the beginning of this thread and asking the Lord to give you understanding in regard to all of my posts, as you read them.

The Jews had a thumbnail sketch of God in the OT. But the NT gives the details. Oneness tries to make the details fit the thumbnail sketch and misses the details altogether.

Answer this if you can. The questions are obvious.

““Now concerning that day and hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son —except the Father only.” (Matthew 24:36) (HCSB)

“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” (John 1:18) (KJV 1900)

justbyfaith · Jan 23, 2019

Dave L said:
Answer this if you can. The questions are obvious.

““Now concerning that day and hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son —except the Father only.” (Matthew 24:36) (HCSB)

The Father inhabiteth eternity, as I have said; and He became the Son who walks in flesh. Having taken on the added nature of humanity, He has a finite human brain that does not contain all of the Omniscience that He had as the Father. Also, the earth revolves on its axis; and the time of day, and even what day it is, varies according to where you are on the earth. And, again, the time of Jesus' return, for each person, may be said to be the moment of their reckoning, which might be the moment of death. And therefore only the Father knows when that time is for each individual, since it cannot ever happen at a specific date and time. It may be January 1 on one side of the globe and January 2 on the other.

Dave L said:
“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” (John 1:18) (KJV 1900)

This scripture actually substantiates my pov. It shows that the Person who we identify as God is the Father. No one has seen the Father at any time because He is a Spirit; however, he also descended to become a Man, taking on an added human nature; and in that, when we see the Man Christ Jesus we see the Father by extension. See John 14:7-11. In the same way, in 1 John 4:12 it should be clear that people see God in us when we truly love other people; but that love itself is something that is invisible; and therefore the way that we see love is through the way that it operates. The wind blows where it wishes. I cannot see the wind but I can see the effects of the wind, as the leaves of a tree are moved by the wind. In that I might even say that I can see the wind by extension, as when someone declares, "Did you see the wind today?" Someone being technical might reply, "no; I did not see the wind; but its effects were quite astounding!" but someone who is normal and who is not being a stickler for perfect detail might say, "I did indeed see the wind!"

On another note, I see you are now resorting to some of the verses that Jehovah's Witnesses use in their attempts to deny the Deity of Christ.

justbyfaith · Jan 23, 2019

Now I have a question for you (@Dave L):

The scripture says (John 5:22) that the Father judgeth no man; but has committed all judgment to the Son. Yet it also says (1 Peter 1:17) that the Father judgeth impartially according to every man's work .

The question here is obvious. Do you have an answer?

101G · Jan 23, 2019

justbyfaith said:
the time of Jesus' return, for each person, may be said to be the moment of their reckoning, which might be the moment of death.

not trying to butt into your conservation, but please explain, this above. for I'm of the belief all the dead will be reckon at the exact same time as well with the living,

Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dave L

Guest

Dave L

Guest

Dave L

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dave L

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dave L

Guest

Dave L

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dave L

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads