Abomination of Desolation

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lizz7711

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Seems to me the mosque/Dome of the Rock being built where God's temple was, is an abomination causing desolation. Is this ever discussed as a possibility? (I know I may sound ignorant, i'm pretty new to studying prophecy so forgive me!)Liz
 

jeffweeder

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(I know I may sound ignorant, i'm pretty new to studying prophecy so forgive me!)
No your not ignorant, gotta start somewhere, besides your asking qu's, hardly ignorant.I posted a similiar answer just before, that luke seems to suggest that the AOD was the roman armies that came in and sacked Jerusalem..and made her desolate.They were then carried off to the nations and gentiles would trample Jerusalem ....until those times are fulfilled.Its hard not to apply this to AD 70, AS all this happened back then....until our day when Israel is back in Jerusalem.Now for the final Chapter.
 

Christina

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The abimination of desolation is Antichrist standing in the holy of holies and declaring himself to be God it happens in the middle of the tribulation reguardless of some teaching all these things are past it is a lack of understanding to how God teaches most everything in scripture has a type or a forerunner this teaching that all things are past is in error they are only types of what will happen again. God says There is nothing new under the sun what happened before will happen again do mistake former types for fulfillment of prophecy yet to come lest you be caught unaware.
 

jeffweeder

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The abimination of desolation is Antichrist standing in the holy of holies
That is not what is being alluded to Kriss.Ill try to explain They were telling Jesus about how glorious the temple was, and Jesus says to them not one stone will be left on another one.When will this be?- said the disciples.We know when this was, and it was 70 AD.But jesus explaining it said---;When you see the AOD---OR Jerusalem surrounded by armies, KNOW that that desolation is near.So flee, because these are days of vengeance (GT), and the nation will be exiled---and Jerusalem trampled--until those times are fulfilled...and then the end will come.Any first century listener would have seen this come true ,and thought that was what Jesus meant, as the walls came tumbling down and the people were exiled.Those times of exile would be fulfilled, and it appears they have.So, what now?We have the Jews being exiled again at the sight of their desolation, to be dispersed again ?If you expect this to happen, you might be caught sleeping.Dont be surprised if Jesus suddenly appears before you think he will....
 

lizz7711

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No your not ignorant, gotta start somewhere, besides your asking qu's, hardly ignorant.I posted a similiar answer just before, that luke seems to suggest that the AOD was the roman armies that came in and sacked Jerusalem..and made her desolate.They were then carried off to the nations and gentiles would trample Jerusalem ....until those times are fulfilled.Its hard not to apply this to AD 70, AS all this happened back then....until our day when Israel is back in Jerusalem.Now for the final Chapter.
Thanks Jeff, it's hard not to feel intimidated here where it seems everyone makes this their life occupation! (studying prophecy)--your response makes sense to me. I tend to see alot of this as already having happened, but I do not presume to know that for sure so i'm open to being wrong. I'm a bit put off by many posters here (not you, and not pointing to anyone in particular, just venting!) who seem quite arrogant in their "knowledge of the truth". Presentation is everything. Humility is a great quality and one commanded by God. I can fall prey to being arrogant myself, so I hope I don't have my own words thrown back at me some day!
smile.gif
take care.
 

Christina

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That is not what is being alluded to Kriss.Ill try to explain They were telling Jesus about how glorious the temple was, and Jesus says to them not one stone will be left on another one.When will this be?- said the disciples.We know when this was, and it was 70 AD.But jesus explaining it said---;When you see the AOD---OR Jerusalem surrounded by armies, KNOW that that desolation is near.So flee, because these are days of vengeance (GT), and the nation will be exiled---and Jerusalem trampled--until those times are fulfilled...and then the end will come.Any first century listener would have seen this come true ,and thought that was what Jesus meant, as the walls came tumbling down and the people were exiled.Those times of exile would be fulfilled, and it appears they have.So, what now?We have the Jews being exiled again at the sight of their desolation, to be dispersed again ?If you expect this to happen, you might be caught sleeping.Dont be surprised if Jesus suddenly appears before you think he will....
I understand what you are saying Jeff I just do not agree that way of interpting scripture that is what I do not agree with I am a dispensationalists The way of interpting you are following was why Rev. and Daniel was never really understood.And why there are so many disagreements because the old way didnt fit the facts.It was not met to be understood until this last gen. Knowledge has increased and now it is revealed to usWhat your discribing is Not the abomination of desolation it was a type the Bible is full of them.This has clearly never happened as described, it has not occured and will not until mid week of the tribulationDan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. This army is on Satan's part. Remember in Mark 13:14 where Jesus said, "But when ye shall see the Abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:" This is it.When does this occur Mar 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter [therein], to take any thing out of his house: Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. Mar 13:19 For [in] those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. This has never happened Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, This means after the tribulation of Antichrist then comes the7th trumpthat is the coming of the Lord with his army to meet Antichrist in the valley of Armaggedon. This is Gods Wrath poured out Not on the believers but on Antichrist/Satan and his army Daniel 12:9 "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." The "time of the end" started in 1948 when Israel was established as a nation. The visions of Daniel are for you, http://www.christianityboard.com/parable-f...ht=parable+tree
 

seekerntruth

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I understand what you are saying Jeff I just do not agree that way of interpting scripture that is what I do not agree with I am a dispensationalists The way of interpting you are following was why Rev. and Daniel was never really understood.And why there are so many disagreements because the old way didnt fit the facts.It was not met to be understood until this last gen. Knowledge has increased and now it is revealed to usWhat your discribing is Not the abomination of desolation it was a type the Bible is full of them.This has clearly never happened as described, it has not occured and will not until mid week of the tribulationDan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. This army is on Satan's part. Remember in Mark 13:14 where Jesus said, "But when ye shall see the Abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:" This is it.When does this occur Mar 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: Mar 13:15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter [therein], to take any thing out of his house: Mar 13:16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. Mar 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! Mar 13:18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. Mar 13:19 For [in] those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. This has never happened Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, This means after the tribulation of Antichrist then comes the7th trumpthat is the coming of the Lord with his army to meet Antichrist in the valley of Armaggedon. This is Gods Wrath poured out Not on the believers but on Antichrist/Satan and his army Daniel 12:9 "And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." The "time of the end" started in 1948 when Israel was established as a nation. The visions of Daniel are for you, http://www.christianityboard.com/parable-f...ht=parable+tree
Kriss, Very well said...It sounds as if Jeff and lizz are playing a game of pitch and catch..And, you just batted the ball out of the park..Good Job..
 

Jackie D

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Some that have studied the Abomination of Desolation, believe it occured right before and when the temple was destroyed in 70AD.Myself, I wonder if this is a dual prophecy. Where the physical temple was destroyed in AD, the spiritual temple is being attacked today even more so than ever and that is why we are seeing so much of the spirit of anti-christ within the "body of Christ" and the churches...denominational and non.
 

Christina

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That is exactly what it is Jackie 70 A.D. was a type of what will come the bible is taught this Way think of Jonah in the whale belly three days a type of Christ in the tomb. The Exodos out of Eygpt to the promised land was a type of our Exodos from flesh and this earth age to our promised land w/Christ as King of Kings. Those who teach the previous types as the fulfillment never to repeated are in error. God tells us there is nothing new under the sun. What happened before will happen again the names places may be differnt. But the type is there.This Abomination of Desolation is spoken of in Mat.and Mark for a reason to point out it will occur in the future.This falls into rightly dividing the Word.What is the subject of Mat 24?Matthew 24Signs of the End of the Age Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: Note "it" is better translated as "he" in this verse
 

n2thelight

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Great response Kriss,let me just add something concerning the word desolationMatthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.
 

Richard_oti

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Some that have studied the Abomination of Desolation, believe it occured right before and when the temple was destroyed in 70AD.Myself, I wonder if this is a dual prophecy. Where the physical temple was destroyed in AD, the spiritual temple is being attacked today even more so than ever and that is why we are seeing so much of the spirit of anti-christ within the "body of Christ" and the churches...denominational and non.
Though I am sure you are aware of it, you probably found the account of Antiochus Ephiphanes in 1 Maccabees [circa 175 BCE] interesting.
 

samy

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kriss, let me see if I understand rightly, or if I'm just a half asleep old man. Do you agree that the end time Abomination of Desolation is an abomination committed against saints, the body of Christ, the Temple? samy
 

Jordan

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kriss, let me see if I understand rightly, or if I'm just a half asleep old man. Do you agree that the end time Abomination of Desolation is an abomination committed against saints, the body of Christ, the Temple? samy
I know I'm not Kriss, but the answer is Yes! The Abomination of Desolation (Desolator) is Satan.
 

Christina

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kriss, let me see if I understand rightly, or if I'm just a half asleep old man. Do you agree that the end time Abomination of Desolation is an abomination committed against saints, the body of Christ, the Temple? samy
Hi Samy, hope you are feeling better Perhaps thats true in a spiritual sense However I believe it is talking a literal act that the abomination of Desolation is a literal event of Satan/Antichrist standing on the Temple mt. in Jerusalem where the holy of Hollies is and declaring himself to be god. .........Now dont go off on me here I see no evidence of a literal third temple (building) being built here. If there is somekind of building or alter built here it is not Gods Temple. But rather somekind of false Temple, or alter that will be destroyed upon Christs return. It is this very act of Abomination by Antichrist that awakens the Jews (and probably some Christians) from their slumber and realize this is a false messiah. This can be understood it you understand that the Jewish believe of the coming messiah is that he herald's the coming of God. For this messiah(antichrist)to claim he is god himself is against Jewish teaching. This takes place at mid week of the tribulation If you need documentation this is shown as a future event please see my post #6 in this thread
 

Christina

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Great response Kriss,let me just add something concerning the word desolationMatthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.
You are very correct N2 thankyou for your input.
 

Richard_oti

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Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ.
In your opinion, would 'desolator' be noun or verb in form?Eremotes is Greek for 'desolator'.In Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14 and Luke 21:20 it is eremoseos; eremoseos; he eremosis; respectively. Of which all are fem. nouns.In Matthew 12:25, Luke 11:17, Rev 17:16; 18:17; 18:19 we have eremoutai; eremoutai; eremomenen; eremothe; eremothe; respectively. All verbs. We could examine every possible reference, however I have so far seen nothing which justifies rendering eremoseos as 'desolator'. That being said, I am truly having a hard time seeing how you are arriving at this. Perhaps you would be so kind as to help me see it.(n2thelight)
"Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.
In Daniel 9:27 that which you are referring unto is: ve-`al kenaf shiqutzim meshomem... "On the wings of the desolator"? Where did the masc. noun shiqutzim disappear unto?In that which you write above, by preceding 'desolator' with the definite article places/identifies it as a noun. Yet 'meshomen' is clearly a verb. One can not arbitrarily exchange a verb for, or into a noun.At best, meshomen may be a participle functioning as an adjective of shiqutzim.Shomen may also as a participle function as an adjective and become desolator. However 'desolator' in the usual form is shin-vav-mem-mem as opposed unto shin-mem-men [shamen] or mem-shin-mem-men [meshomem].So even if we allow meshomem to be translated as 'desolator' [which I disagree with], it still may only function as an adjective describing a noun which in this case is shiqutzim.If you are interested in the whole verse [or more] in transliteration, don't hesitate to ask and I will gladly do so here.
 

samy

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My friends, please notice, 15́ Οταν οὐ̂ν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα της ἐρημώσεως τὸ ρηθὲν διὰ Δανιὴλ του προφήτου..." ἐρημώσεως is a noun feminine singular genitive, of destruction or of desolation, from the noun eramosis. Mounce, page 215. samy
 

samy

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It is somewhat unlikely and unexpected to find a feminine noun describing Satan. samy
 

Richard_oti

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My friends, please notice, 15́ Οταν οὐ̂ν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα της ἐρημώσεως τὸ ρηθὲν διὰ Δανιὴλ του προφήτου..." ἐρημώσεως is a noun feminine singular genitive, of destruction or of desolation, from the noun eramosis. Mounce, page 215. samy
(samy;52599)
It is somewhat unlikely and unexpected to find a feminine noun describing Satan. samy
Concurred. Well spoken Samy. Nor is there a precedent for rendering eremoseos as 'desolator' in Matthew 24:15. The Greek 'bdelugma tes eremoseos' does not support being rendered as "abomination of desolator" nor does Hebrew support such a rendering.