70 weeks

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lizz7711

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Ok, i'm sorry for posting again but i have alot of questions! Why would God make a prophecy, stating there are to be "70 weeks" and then just break off after 69 weeks with no indication of how long this break is to be? Are there any other instances in the Bible where time frames are given like that and then there are arbitrary breaks in the middle? I'm leaning towards believing the 70 weeks have already happened as it makes little sense to me that the last week would be separated by 2000+ years. Also, it says in the middle of the week sacrificed would be abolished...and Jesus accomplished that. And Jesus did also in a spiritual sense fulfill "everlasting righteousness etc" by His resurrection. But as i've said, i'm new to this so please feel free to enlighten me to your view points!thanks,Liz
 

Christina

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All questions are welcome post as many as you like heres a good site that might help you with this A 'gap' period of two millennia would then pass by. During this time the message of the Gospel would go out to the nations. At the close of the age a final 70th week would usher in the climactic final seven years of this present age. The terminus of that 70th week would mark the Day of the Lord and herald the Second Coming of Messiah. http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks7.htm
 

jeffweeder

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I'm leaning towards believing the 70 weeks have already happened as it makes little sense to me that the last week would be separated by 2000+ years
I agreeIt appears clear that the 70 weeks were about the bringing in of atonement etc, and only Jesus could do this for mankind.If thats the case then messiah the prince would arrive after 7 and 62 weeks, which left Jesus in the final week to complete his work.Ladies and gentleman ..he did it...we have the Gospel of salvation, the most Holy Place is annointed and we can walk straight in, having been deemed eternal righteous and atoned ,by the blood of Jesus Christ.Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
 

Christina

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Jeff you might read the study on the link the 70th week is not past 69weeks passed the 70th week can not have occured or Christ would be here and hes not.
 

jeffweeder

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Jeff you might read the study on the link the 70th week is not past 69weeks passed the 70th week can not have occured or Christ would be here and hes not
I'm sorry but i dont understand.What part of the 70 weeks didnt he fulfill?Did he fail to bring atonement?If he didnt, then all those other points about everlasting righteousness, annointing the holy place etc are fulfilled also, because it was 70 weeks for all of them.I call it an act of redemption, in which Jesus finished the work, the Father gave him to do for us. It is finished.For the jew and the gentile.There is no atonement or everlasting righteousness without the blood of Christ..
 

lizz7711

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May 23, 2008
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All questions are welcome post as many as you like heres a good site that might help you with this A 'gap' period of two millennia would then pass by. During this time the message of the Gospel would go out to the nations. At the close of the age a final 70th week would usher in the climactic final seven years of this present age. The terminus of that 70th week would mark the Day of the Lord and herald the Second Coming of Messiah. http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks7.htm
Thanks Kriss, i'll check out that link
smile.gif
Liz
 

lizz7711

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All questions are welcome post as many as you like heres a good site that might help you with this http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks7.htm
I checked out the site, and I found it interesting, especially the idea of Hos. 6:2 and the "two days" being 2000 years, and the "3rd day" being the millenial rule of Christ on earth...i've heard this before and it fits with the whole six days of creation and then a day of rest..we are now entering the 7th day so He could come soon eh?But what I didn't find on the link was any real proof or supporting documentation for his assertion that there is a 2000 year gap between the 69 and 70 weeks, he just says there is, and then talks about the difference between Christ's first and second coming, grace and law etc.so i'm not convinced, I still think the 70 weeks are over and there is no 7 year tribulation. Clearly in revelation it talks of some 3 1/2 year time period. But this could be 1260 years too! Who knows!
 

lizz7711

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May 23, 2008
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First of all, Daniel wrote this around 530BC, that is so long before Christ, and the temple was just being rebuilt and then the people would be going back from exile etc. So it is looking forward to the coming of the messiah.Daniel 9:24 (ESV)Seventy weeks are decreed about your people, and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put and end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.Ok, when I read this, I see it completely fulfilled in the life, death , and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah. Spiritually, as Jesus said "It is finished". Physically, there are still sinners in the world etc and will be until the new heavens and new earth.Daniel 9:25 (ESV)Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, thre shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time.If the anointed one is supposed to be Jesus, why does it say there shall be seven weeks till he comes? That would only be 49 years...so i'm not clear at all on this.Daniel 9:26 (ESV)And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.If Jesus is the anointed one, he is cut off/killed after the 62 weeks, makes sense. Later in 70 AD the city and temple are destroyed.Daniel 9:27And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.An interpretation of the first sentence that I tend to like is that Jesus made a covenant with the Jews for 7 years. The first 3 and 1/2 years were his ministry on earth, then at his death he put an end to sacrifice and offering, which He DID. Then the next 3 and 1/2 years is the time of witnessing to the Jews by the disciples before going out to the gentiles. This seems to make a lot of rational sense. The second sentence seems up for interpretation...I don't quite know what to think, other than that perhaps THIS is a sentence that could last 2000+ years "until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator".But then we come to Matthew 24:15-31. Jesus says in verse 15: "So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains" Here it seems Jesus could be talking about the coming desolation of Jerusalem in 70AD on many points. But not all because he says there will be "great tribulation such as has not been from thh beginning of the world until now, no and never will be" ...etc.etc. Many other statements in that passage must be referring to the end end times, to say there will NEVER be such tribulation could not refer to the time of 70 AD. So i'm wondering how to understand this seeming contradiction with the idea of the 70 weeks being completed and would like to hear from those who believe the 70 weeks are completed for their interpretation. (I know people who don't think it was completed will just say, "there's your proof it hasn't happened yet" so I don't really need to hear that--unless you are able to provide deeper explanation!) Thanks alot!
 

eliyahu

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May 27, 2008
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I also am convinced that the 70th week was fulfilled during Christ's ministry. But is an incredibly far leap to say that there is no future "tribulation" just because this one point most premillenialists lean on and emphasize is wrong. Having the 70th week in the past does not challenge historical premillenialism at all. I don't understand why so many insist that the 70th week is such a foundational and pivotal part of the future events. Jesus accomplished all of that in His death and resurrection and ascension. It is also unnecessary to insist on a ridgid and literal 7 year, split period ahead. A past fulfillment happenned in the time of the Maccabees and in 70 AD (3 & 1/2 yrs). Both instances were not precisely 7 or 3 1/2 years, but were somewhat close. Both events did not completely fulfill the words of Daniel about the antichrist style figure (also again spoken of by Paul and then again by John in Revelation). How do we know that the past fulfillments were not general types of future events that will yet happen in a limited but unprescribed period of time- but not neccessarliy a predictabley precise 7 years? I believe that the "7 years" in Revelation are definitely, to be sure, future. But as most of that book, it is symbolic language drawn from Daniel and the prophets. The Old Testament is the key to understanding the symbolic language Revelation uses.
 

eliyahu

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I read your last post and I think you are asking a great q
smile.gif
. I believe that you may consider the "time of Jacob's trouble" in Jer 30:6 is still future, because "all Israel" is not saved yet. The majority of Israel is still under the law's curse, as history bears witness to. The return of Jesus will end this season and close the "time of Jacob's trouble," "tribulation" period. I have much more to say about this if you are interested.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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I checked out the site, and I found it interesting, especially the idea of Hos. 6:2 and the "two days" being 2000 years, and the "3rd day" being the millenial rule of Christ on earth...i've heard this before and it fits with the whole six days of creation and then a day of rest..we are now entering the 7th day so He could come soon eh?But what I didn't find on the link was any real proof or supporting documentation for his assertion that there is a 2000 year gap between the 69 and 70 weeks, he just says there is, and then talks about the difference between Christ's first and second coming, grace and law etc.so i'm not convinced, I still think the 70 weeks are over and there is no 7 year tribulation. Clearly in revelation it talks of some 3 1/2 year time period. But this could be 1260 years too! Who knows!
This 7 year tribulation has been told in Daniel (so pretty sure, but I can't quote scripture) but Christ definately have been shortened to 5 months. (Matthew 24:22, Revelation 9:10)
 

lizz7711

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May 23, 2008
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I also am convinced that the 70th week was fulfilled during Christ's ministry. But is an incredibly far leap to say that there is no future "tribulation" just because this one point most premillenialists lean on and emphasize is wrong. Having the 70th week in the past does not challenge historical premillenialism at all. I don't understand why so many insist that the 70th week is such a foundational and pivotal part of the future events. Jesus accomplished all of that in His death and resurrection and ascension. It is also unnecessary to insist on a ridgid and literal 7 year, split period ahead. A past fulfillment happenned in the time of the Maccabees and in 70 AD (3 & 1/2 yrs). Both instances were not precisely 7 or 3 1/2 years, but were somewhat close. Both events did not completely fulfill the words of Daniel about the antichrist style figure (also again spoken of by Paul and then again by John in Revelation). How do we know that the past fulfillments were not general types of future events that will yet happen in a limited but unprescribed period of time- but not neccessarliy a predictabley precise 7 years? I believe that the "7 years" in Revelation are definitely, to be sure, future. But as most of that book, it is symbolic language drawn from Daniel and the prophets. The Old Testament is the key to understanding the symbolic language Revelation uses.
I agree that there definitely will still be a time of tribulation before Christ's second coming, but I don't think reveltion ever mentions any 7 year time frame, only a 3 1/2 yr. period is mentioned. The whole idea of 7year tribulation is from the 70th week of daniel. I agree that it seems not too relevant if Daniel's 70 weeks are completed or not, but it's interesting to think about. thanks for your comments!
 

lizz7711

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May 23, 2008
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I read your last post and I think you are asking a great q
smile.gif
. I believe that you may consider the "time of Jacob's trouble" in Jer 30:6 is still future, because "all Israel" is not saved yet. The majority of Israel is still under the law's curse, as history bears witness to. The return of Jesus will end this season and close the "time of Jacob's trouble," "tribulation" period. I have much more to say about this if you are interested.
Have you ever read the book "End Time Delusions" by Steve Wohlberg? In it he asserts that basically Jesus is Israel, and Israel's "seed" is Jesus' followers, i.e. Jews and Gentiles that believe in Him...and if you follow that train of thought, then "all Israel" being saved, just means that all jews and gentiles that believe in Jesus aka ISRAEL, will be saved. So it doen'st necessarily mean that all literal Jews will be saved--I like this interpretation because no doubt there will be some Jews and some gentiles, who in the end do not choose to follow Yeshua. If anyone is intested in how he comes up with that idea, I can post more details.
 

lizz7711

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May 23, 2008
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This 7 year tribulation has been told in Daniel (so pretty sure, but I can't quote scripture) but Christ definately have been shortened to 5 months. (Matthew 24:22, Revelation 9:10)
Everything in Daniel that talks about a "7 year tribulation" is extrapolated from the passages I posted. People get the idea of a 7 year trib from the 70th week of Daniel, and they believe that one week was not continuous from the other 69. I don't buy it. (but i'm still open to being found wrong!)I have no idea what you are referring to about Christ shortening it to 5 months...can you expand please? thanks!
 

eliyahu

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Have you ever read the book "End Time Delusions" by Steve Wohlberg? In it he asserts that basically Jesus is Israel, and Israel's "seed" is Jesus' followers, i.e. Jews and Gentiles that believe in Him...and if you follow that train of thought, then "all Israel" being saved, just means that all jews and gentiles that believe in Jesus aka ISRAEL, will be saved. So it doen'st necessarily mean that all literal Jews will be saved--I like this interpretation because no doubt there will be some Jews and some gentiles, who in the end do not choose to follow Yeshua. If anyone is intested in how he comes up with that idea, I can post more details.
Sorry, I've not read that book. I am quite sure that this idea is not original with that author. It has been affectionally dubbed "replacement theology" but its numerous objectors. It is a true sounding bit of potentially dangerous falsehood. I submit that no one can justify that vein of reasoning by interpreting the Bible line upon line, from the beginning first and then moving to the New Testament. Go back and read his book and you will see that this is not what he does. Throughout the entire Old Testament and all of the New, (We can discuss the three or so scriptures replacement theology stands on in Paul's letters) no Gentile is ever referred to as "Israel," a "Jew," or "Jacob" ever out of the hundreds of times the words are used. Paul even uses these terms repeatedly in Romans and other letters and never lumps Gentiles into that term but specifically states the word "Gentiles." Even the symbolical book of Revelation makes very plains distinctions between the two. If you still see all believers as "all Israel," than you have to go back and re-interpret the meaning of "Israel" and most of the words of the prophets and Jesus with this new interpretaion, while throwing out the plain and original meaning. Think about it. This becomes abundantly stark when one reads Romans 9-11.
 

Jordan

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Everything in Daniel that talks about a "7 year tribulation" is extrapolated from the passages I posted. People get the idea of a 7 year trib from the 70th week of Daniel, and they believe that one week was not continuous from the other 69. I don't buy it. (but i'm still open to being found wrong!)I have no idea what you are referring to about Christ shortening it to 5 months...can you expand please? thanks!
This "7 year tribulation" is Satan's tribulation period. (Matthew 24:21) And Christ has shortened it (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20) because He knew that it would be so strong even that the elect would be fooled... And in Revelation 9, Satan is only allowed here on Earth for 5 months (150 days) (Revelation 9:1)
 

Christina

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Everything in Daniel that talks about a "7 year tribulation" is extrapolated from the passages I posted. People get the idea of a 7 year trib from the 70th week of Daniel, and they believe that one week was not continuous from the other 69. I don't buy it. (but i'm still open to being found wrong!)I have no idea what you are referring to about Christ shortening it to 5 months...can you expand please? thanks!
Because the 3 1/2 years which is 42 months of actual tribulation is shortened God says he will shorten the time for the Elect sake Rev. 9:5 & 9:10 tell you this shortened time is five monthsmaybe this site will make the 70 weeks clearer to youhttp://www.bible-reading.com/490yrs.html#wal_a